John Warrow’s High Praise For Beane & McDermott Regime

[oldmanfan]

12 minutes ago, mannc said:

I don’t think anyone here is “assuming failure.”  I’m optimistic that this is a 10-6 or better team this year.   Where I part company with a lot of folks here is that I believe another ugly 6-10 season will probably mean that McD gets the hook—or should.  I just don’t believe that in the modern NFL, a guy who takes over a .500 operation should get four years to start winning.  It concerns me how many people are lowering the bar for this season...

I would refer you to the quote I posted above with respect to Allen.  It assumes failure. 

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The reasoning becomes "it's a full rebuild"..... as if that automatically gives them a pass for last year and this year if the team still struggles.

And here you go.  Two years ago they were in the playoffs, and last year broke in a rookie QB.  How exactly is making the playoffs one out of two times struggling?

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The problem isn't stating an A and B option when there is only an A and B option. The problem is constantly stating a preferred option and acting as if the other option is held by naïve fools. 

 

Oh I completely agree. That was where I started in this whole debate in respect of whether the Bills' approach to this rebuild was a choice. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh I completely agree. That was where I started in this whole debate in respect of whether the Bills' approach to this rebuild was a choice. 

A reasonable point to argue, but the only thing that truly matters is the current HC and GM felt it was needed.  So they did it, got to the playoffs in one of their two years, now have what they hope is a franchise QB and some essential pieces on D, and a lot of cap space.  When people talk struggle I honestly can't understand how they define the word.

 

Every single person on the board expects improvement.  The question is to what extremes that issue is debated.

[ColoradoBills]

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

4 hours ago, Magox said:

 

When I read these comments that "Watkins is better than anything we have now", I think to myself what an incredibly myopic take.  Never mind the fact that Watkins hasnt put up good numbers in years or that his inability to avoid injury still plagues him to this day, but that often parroted statement is not the consideration that good GM's make.  The questions they ask are " Is he worth $17m a year?"    "At $17m a year do I believe he will stay healthy enough to be on the field often to make a difference on this team?",  "At $17m a year, is he the kind of player that fits the DNA profile that we are looking for?"  And "At $17m a year does he have the track record to justify this cost?"

 

The Rams had him for one year, decided to give up their 2nd rounder to only decide to not re-sign him to go on to choose Cooks instead.  Let that digest and marinate in some of you guys heads for a bit.

 

Good GMs huh? Thanks for telling me what good GMs think. You don’t think Watkins could’ve helped last year? Use the rams as the moral compass but disregard the chiefs who realize that even though they have tyreek hill and Travis kelce they can afford 17 million for Sammy Watkins because they hit a grand slam with a rookie quarterback. Who’s lookin’ myopic now?

[mannc]

28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would refer you to the quote I posted above with respect to Allen.  It assumes failure. 

 

It does no such thing.  And at any rate, BADOL has repeatedly said he’s a huge Josh Allen fan.

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

It does no such thing.  And at any rate, BADOL has repeatedly said he’s a huge Josh Allen fan.

Everyone who has ever failed at something new had never done it before.

 

He was referring to Allen and that he'll fail.  Odd way to claim you're a huge fan of the guy.  I'd suggest a huge fan might say he'll succeed.

 

How exactly can you read that quote and say it does no such thing?

Edited June 16, 2019 by oldmanfan

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

The following are your exact words from earlier in this thread regarding Allen:

 

Everyone who has ever failed at something new had never done it before.

 

Your words, not mine.  And one could just as easily say everyone who has succeeded at something new has never done it before.

 

Your shtick is obvious and juvenile at this point.  

 

Here is what you said that I said:

 

"Among others when a few pages back he talks about when you are new like Allen you have to learn to be a bust or words to that effect."

 

You have to learn to be a bust?   That's utter nonsense.   Mine were not words to "that effect".

 

My take was a joking play on easy answer, low content, self-help quotes............I don't know WHAT was going thru your mind...........you have to learn to be a bust?

 

That's not a thing........that's two things that don't belong in a thought together.

 

If you can't see that you shouldn't be here you...........you should either see a healthcare pro about your thought process or maybe run for political office.

 

 

 

[K-9]

33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh I completely agree. That was where I started in this whole debate in respect of whether the Bills' approach to this rebuild was a choice. 

Well, what was it if it wasn’t s choice?

 

What the Bills did by deciding on a specific strategy and which tactics are best used to implement it, was a series of choices and it continues to be. 

 

The problem some people seem to have is their inability to accept those choices because they don’t agree with them, which makes the Bills automatically “wrong” in choosing that course. And when it’s obvious that all of it still needs to be determined, it’s really an ignorant position to take at this time.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Here is what you said that I said:

 

"Among others when a few pages back he talks about when you are new like Allen you have to learn to be a bust or words to that effect."

 

You have to learn to be a bust?   That's utter nonsense.   Mine were not words to "that effect".

 

My take was a joking play on easy answer, low content, self-help quotes............I don't know WHAT was going thru your mind...........you have to learn to be a bust?

 

That's not a thing........that's two things that don't belong in a thought together.

 

If you can't see that you shouldn't be here you...........you should either see a healthcare pro about your thought process or maybe run for political office.

 

 

 

I was going off memory, and then went all the way back and pulled the exact quote.  Which says everyone that has failed at something new has never tried it before. In which you refer to Allen, in which you indicate he'll fail.

 

Nice try at spinning.  Now you say you were making a joke?  Sure.  And  it's me that should run for politics?  If you're such a big Allen fan why assume he'll fail?  

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I was going off memory, and then went all the way back and pulled the exact quote.  Which says everyone that has failed at something new has never tried it before. In which you refer to Allen, in which you indicate he'll fail.

 

Nice try at spinning.  Now you say you were making a joke?  Sure.  And  it's me that should run for politics?  If you're such a big Allen fan why assume he'll fail?  

 

 

I also have other controversial opinions..........I believe that no matter where you go, there you are..........and water isn't dry........there's a bunch of 'em.    We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I also have other controversial opinions..........I believe that no matter where you go, there you are..........and water isn't dry........there's a bunch of 'em.    We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

 

 

Fair enough.  Let's at least agree it would be nice for the Bills to win.  We can agree on that, right?

[GunnerBill]

43 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Well, what was it if it wasn’t s choice?

 

What the Bills did by deciding on a specific strategy and which tactics are best used to implement it, was a series of choices and it continues to be. 

 

The problem some people seem to have is their inability to accept those choices because they don’t agree with them, which makes the Bills automatically “wrong” in choosing that course. And when it’s obvious that all of it still needs to be determined, it’s really an ignorant position to take at this time.

 

Well obviously it is a series of tactical choices but the big strategic decision to rebuild was, indeed, a single choice. Nobody has said they are automatically wrong. It is simply the case that when the contrarian view is put (ie. those who are not convinced a rebuild was the right choice) there are a whole lot of you who interpret that as saying the choice the Bills made can't succeed. Which is not what they are doing. And that is why we are going around in circles. 

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So let me get this straight.............you don't bother to educate yourself about football............you don't live or work in WNY but you live close enough to attend all games but make little effort to do so.............you openly admit you care a lot more about the Mets than the Bills...........but you are questioning my fandom?   GTFOH.

 

You are a poser.   ?‍♂️

 

I"m perfectly happy with my level of football knowledge.  My drive to OP is 5 hours and I can't afford, nor do I have to time, to attend 8 games/year.  I don't compare my Mets love to my Bills love; I'm a fan of both teams.  I question your fandom because you refuse to acknowledge anything good about the team.

[K-9]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well obviously it is a series of tactical choices but the big strategic decision to rebuild was, indeed, a single choice. Nobody has said they are automatically wrong. It is simply the case that when the contrarian view is put (ie. those who are not convinced a rebuild was the right choice) there are a whole lot of you who interpret that as saying the choice the Bills made can't succeed. Which is not what they are doing. And that is why we are going around in circles. 

Nobody has said they made the wrong choice? Really? Then why all the complaining about how they shouldn't have cut this guy or shouldn't have traded that guy? Whenever one uses the word "shouldn't" they are by extension saying "that's wrong." If saying the rebuild wasn't the "right" choice, they are saying it's the "wrong" choice. It's a pretty binary proposition for those that do that. 

 

Any idiot should know we won't be able to say quantitatively whether or not anything was wrong until it all plays out and the final chapter on this regime is written. 

 

 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

I"m perfectly happy with my level of football knowledge.  My drive to OP is 5 hours and I can't afford, nor do I have to time, to attend 8 games/year.  I don't compare my Mets love to my Bills love; I'm a fan of both teams.  I question your fandom because you refuse to acknowledge anything good about the team.

 

It’s like your kids, you don ‘t have to pick a favorite. I love Xavier basketball, it doesn’t make me a bad Bills fan. 

 

I think we have a case of “it’s not what you do, but how you do it”. Differing opinions are fine, and I can handle the heavily negative lean.  I admit to leaning the other way, it’s a choice. We all have opinions. That’s fine. It’s the arrogance and abrasiveness that’s just not necessary to make a point. But to each their own.... maybe it’s a plea for attention.  I’ve come to just expect it.

 

I’ll now enjoy an afternoon of quality US Open Golf from one of the most beautiful places on the planet!  

 

.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Augie

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I said THIS year if they struggle.

 

 

Why think they will?  Why slant your thinking in that direction?  Allen has some experience now.  O line is retooled.  Defense looks good.  

[Augie]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well obviously it is a series of tactical choices but the big strategic decision to rebuild was, indeed, a single choice. Nobody has said they are automatically wrong. It is simply the case that when the contrarian view is put (ie. those who are not convinced a rebuild was the right choice) there are a whole lot of you who interpret that as saying the choice the Bills made can't succeed. Which is not what they are doing. And that is why we are going around in circles. 

 

Do you really think so? I don’t get that feel, but maybe I need to pay closer attention.

 

People who complain about 19 years of futility need to get over something Ralph did decades ago.They are just reaching to be negative. I get frustration, but this is, IMO, unreasonable and a negative reach. In my mind, the clock starts over with the Pegulas. Rex may have bothered me more than anything Ralph ever did. Not my kind of guy. Oh well, we moved on and I’m encouraged today. 

 

I think a lot of people just get tired of others who have nothing positive to say, ever. If they do, it’s in a back-handed way and just to cover their backsides.

 

I find you to be a great resource, and I value your opinions. I freely grant you know more about the game and the players than I do. We don’t always agree, but I never feel like you’ve been a jerk about any position you take. You post like a grown-up! That puts you well above some of the others. 

 

.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Augie

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Why think they will?  Why slant your thinking in that direction?  Allen has some experience now.  O line is retooled.  Defense looks good.  

But, but, but what if I have hope and they disappoint me again? That's scary to me. I need to protect myself in a shroud of negativity cause I just couldn't take it again. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

STOP SAYING NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT MY FAVORITE FOOTBALL TEAM!!!!?

 

It's just hypothetical thoughts based on my opinion of the football team. That's all. Sorry it bothers you.

 

 

 

 

I hope you can be more optimistic after camp.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I think they will be better.... but it is absolutely possible that that they struggle again offensively, because again, IN MY OPINION, I didn't think they did enough on offense for Allen....

 

It's a message board brotha. Different opinions on the team are allowed.

Yep.  I offer mine in response to yours.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh I completely agree. That was where I started in this whole debate in respect of whether the Bills' approach to this rebuild was a choice.

I don't understand the issue of a choice or not. When McDermott took over the reigns he repeatedly publicly stated what he was going to do. It was going to be a complete rebuilding not only of the roster and restructuring the cap but also the organization. He had a vision of the type of people and players he wanted and quickly executed it. 

 

I understand that there were other approaches to take. That's as obvious as A is the first letter of the alphabet and Z is the last letter. No one  needs to be constantly reminded that there are different strategies to run an operation. From day one there was no deviation from what the new HC stated he was going to do. What's the point of rehashing the rehash? What's the point of ad nauseum haranguing about the same point that another approach could have been taken when we are entering into year three following the declared strategy made upon assuming the job? It gets to be tiresome.

[K-9]

11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

STOP SAYING NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT MY FAVORITE FOOTBALL TEAM!!!!?

 

It's just hypothetical thoughts based on my opinion of the football team. That's all. Sorry it bothers you.

 

 

 

 

Hypothetical thoughts don't bother me at all. They actually spur interesting conversation at times. 

 

But when those thoughts come off as incessant whining about the state of affairs and over several seasons to boot, they are more than just hypothetical thoughts and that tends to bother people. 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Hypothetical thoughts don't bother me at all. They actually spur interesting conversation at times. 

 

But when those thoughts come off as incessant whining about the state of affairs and over several seasons to boot, they are more than just hypothetical thoughts and that tends to bother people. 

What isn't hypothetical is that the new coach in his first year took a stripped down team and made the playoffs for the first time in nearly a generation. That seems to be forgotten in the evaluation of this regime's performance in its young tenure. Chuck Knox is arguably the best coach that this franchise has had in its distinguished and not so distinguished history. Yet, in my opinion McDermott accomplished more with less in his inaugural year. You never here a peep about that from the snarling critics.  

 

No one is suggesting that this administration hasn't made mistakes. They certainly have. But if one is fair-minded and put things in perspective the overview is that they have done good job and have successfully laid the groundwork for more success. 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What isn't hypothetical is that the new coach in his first year took a stripped down team and made the playoffs for the first time in nearly a generation. That seems to be forgotten in the evaluation of this regime's performance in its young tenure. Chuck Knox is arguably the best coach that this franchise has had in its distinguished and not so distinguished history. Yet, in my opinion McDermott accomplished more with less in his inaugural year. You never here a peep about that from the snarling critics.  

 

No one is suggesting that this administration hasn't made mistakes. They certainly have. But if one is fair-minded and put things in perspective the overview is that they have done good job and have successfully laid the groundwork for more success. 

 

Didn’t I read that they were lucky to sneak in and they weren’t real contenders? I thought I read that, so they do comment...... ?

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Why do you and others constantly spin things in a negative direction?

 

I don't have to defend my opinions to you or anybody else.   I don't continually ask you why you pretend that badly McDermott and Beane didn't mismanage the QB situation in 2018?

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What isn't hypothetical is that the new coach in his first year took a stripped down team and made the playoffs for the first time in nearly a generation. That seems to be forgotten in the evaluation of this regime's performance in its young tenure. Chuck Knox is arguably the best coach that this franchise has had in its distinguished and not so distinguished history. Yet, in my opinion McDermott accomplished more with less in his inaugural year. You never here a peep about that from the snarling critics.  

 

No one is suggesting that this administration hasn't made mistakes. They certainly have. But if one is fair-minded and put things in perspective the overview is that they have done good job and have successfully laid the groundwork for more success. 

Per the bold, abso friggen lutely!

 

The inherited roster was largely played out, especially at the most critical position in sports (never mind some were and continue to be convinced that all TT needed was a better supporting cast). Now I expect to see the usual suspects chime in with, "Well, if the roster was so played out, why are so many ex-Bills having such great success elsewhere." Not an honest question, imo, as the answer lies in they went to better teams and situations. 

 

But it's really only a few players. But honestly, had we kept those players, especially with TT at the helm, can anyone really suggest with a straight face that they'd have experienced the same success? No. And Woods and Gilmore were leaving, anyway. 

 

BUT WE DIDN'T DRAFT MAHOMES OR WATSON!!! While that's fair, especially with the required 20/20 hindsight goggles, I cannot fault a front office that didn't have either rated highly enough, especially with the 2018 QB draft class on the horizon. And again, that assumes the absurd notion that either would have had the same kind of success in Buffalo. 
 

I gotta stop now. I just started enjoying a nice Sunday afternoon pour and rehashing the same crap ruins a nice scotch. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I don't have to defend my opinions to you or anybody else.   I don't continually ask you why you pretend that badly McDermott and Beane didn't mismanage the QB situation in 2018?

No you don't.  They're illogical and make no sense most of the time but you're entitled to them, just as I and others are entitled to point out how ridiculous you get.

 

By the way I have posted that they mismanaged the QB situation, and that I give credit to Beane for acknowledging that.  On more than one occasion last year I said the problem was they didn't bring a vet like Anderson in earlier.  But, as is normal with you, facts are difficult for you to grasp.

[K-9]

19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That is your opinion. You are entitled.

 

If my posts bother you, you and other people can put me on ignore. They obviously do. So give it some thought.??

 

 

Gee, thanks. 

 

But putting people on ignore really doesn't work as one can view those posts when others respond. 

 

Besides, it would deprive me the cathartic relief of calling you out when needed. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Per the bold, abso friggen lutely!

 

The inherited roster was largely played out, especially at the most critical position in sports (never mind some were and continue to be convinced that all TT needed was a better supporting cast). Now I expect to see the usual suspects chime in with, "Well, if the roster was so played out, why are so many ex-Bills having such great success elsewhere." Not an honest question, imo, as the answer lies in they went to better teams and situations. 

 

But it's really only a few players. But honestly, had we kept those players, especially with TT at the helm, can anyone really suggest with a straight face that they'd have experienced the same success? No. And Woods and Gilmore were leaving, anyway. 

 

BUT WE DIDN'T DRAFT MAHOMES OR WATSON!!! While that's fair, especially with the required 20/20 hindsight goggles, I cannot fault a front office that didn't have either rated highly enough, especially with the 2018 QB draft class on the horizon. And again, that assumes the absurd notion that either would have had the same kind of success in Buffalo. 
 

I gotta stop now. I just started enjoying a nice Sunday afternoon pour and rehashing the same crap ruins a nice scotch. 

I wanted Watson.  Mahomes had a lot of questions with respect to his footwork, the fact that he came out of a one read spread offense, and such.  No one admits that now, of course.  

[K-9]

10 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I don't have to defend my opinions to you or anybody else.   I don't continually ask you why you pretend that badly McDermott and Beane didn't mismanage the QB situation in 2018?

Do you give them any credit at all for admitting to that mid stream and correcting the situation? 

 

Never mind. That was rhetorical. 

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

I wanted Watson.  Mahomes had a lot of questions with respect to his footwork, the fact that he came out of a one read spread offense, and such.  No one admits that now, of course.  

I would have been fine with either QB as we really needed one. But I don't hold that against them. They had their sights set on a better QB class in 2018. 

[K-9]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Yea. You are really putting me in my place.?

Nobody is capable of putting you in your place. The hope is that when confronted with enough rational thought, you can achieve the requisite level of wisdom and do that all by yourself. 

 

Good luck with that. We’ll be watching. 

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Do you give them any credit at all for admitting to that mid stream and correcting the situation? 

 

Never mind. That was rhetorical. 

I would have been fine with either QB as we really needed one. But I don't hold that against them. They had their sights set on a better QB class in 2018. 

For quite a while I thought the age of great QB play would be done, what with the single read offenses and such.   The last couple years tell me how wrong I was.

[Augie]

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

?

[oldmanfan]

On a completely different topic just to lighten the mood, for those watching the Open, can we get someone to strangle the guy that keeps yelling Baba Booey?

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Rational thought? On TSW? 

 

Just like most things in the world today any rational thought gets drowned out by the "click bait" of the extremes.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

On a completely different topic just to lighten the mood, for those watching the Open, can we get someone to strangle the guy that keeps yelling Baba Booey?

 

@Happy Gilmore might know somebody? 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Nobody has said they made the wrong choice? Really? Then why all the complaining about how they shouldn't have cut this guy or shouldn't have traded that guy? Whenever one uses the word "shouldn't" they are by extension saying "that's wrong." If saying the rebuild wasn't the "right" choice, they are saying it's the "wrong" choice. It's a pretty binary proposition for those that do that. 

 

Any idiot should know we won't be able to say quantitatively whether or not anything was wrong until it all plays out and the final chapter on this regime is written. 

 

 

 

I have not seen anyone saying they "shouldn't" have traded or cut anyone. I have seen lots of people saying they didn't need to trade or cut certain players - Watkins, Dareus, Glenn whoever. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

What's the point of rehashing the rehash? What's the point of ad nauseum haranguing about the same point that another approach could have been taken when we are entering into year three following the declared strategy made upon assuming the job? It gets to be tiresome.

 

To you it is tiresome. I understand that. To me it isn't. It is fascinating. I am, pardon the pun, a "process" guy. I always have been in every facet of life. That is why McDermott is my kind of coach. To me analysing the strategic choices made and the alternative options and trying to surmise the range of possible outcomes is genuinely more interesting than arguing about who our number 1 receiver is going into training camp. That is the little stuff. I want to worry about the big questions. It is just the way I am wired. 

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

To you it is tiresome. I understand that. To me it isn't. It is fascinating. I am, pardon the pun, a "process" guy. I always have been in every facet of life. That is why McDermott is my kind of coach. To me analysing the strategic choices made and the alternative options and trying to surmise the range of possible outcomes is genuinely more interesting than arguing about who our number 1 receiver is going into training camp. That is the little stuff. I want to worry about the big questions. It is just the way I am wired. 

 

 

...and again, often it’s less about what you do than how you do it. I doubt  anyone here has any problem with you or your position on any given matter.