JohnC Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Gugny said: No problems bashing, here. He was never even close to adequate. He was a selfish, terrible QB and teammate. Flutie 2.0. The day he was traded was one of the greatest days in my entire Bills fandom history. Good riddance to bad rubbish. I agree with you that TT was less than adequate. But the reality is that at the time he was the best qb we had. That is a testament to organizational ineptitude. To McBeane's credit they made it a priority to address that position. The more perplexing question is why didn't the prior regimes address that issue sooner? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, JohnC said: Getting a third round pick for a qb that we no longer wanted was a heist. The truth about that transaction is not that Beane outmaneuvered anyone so much as Cleveland was stupid. ROI was terrible. 3rd rounder who started 3 games and then benched. 6 minutes ago, K-9 said: Having TT at QB was also a factor in Woods leaving, too, imo. I think so too. He wanted no part of a sub 200 yard passing game type of team. He had to play through the Manuel years...he was ready to leave. I think he wanted to go back home to LA but could have been persuaded to stay if we had stability at the QB position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: ROI was terrible. 3rd rounder who started 3 games and then benched. I think so too. He wanted no part of a sub 200 yard passing game type of team. He had to play through the Manuel years...he was ready to leave. I think he wanted to go back home to LA but could have been persuaded to stay if we had stability at the QB position. Per the bold, I’m confused. Are you talking about the 3rd we got from Cleveland in the TT trade? If so, we traded that pick to Baltimore as part of the deal to move up and get Edmunds. Am I missing something you referred to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 minute ago, K-9 said: Per the bold, I’m confused. Are you talking about the 3rd we got from Cleveland in the TT trade? If so, we traded that pick to Baltimore as part of the deal to move up and get Edmunds. Am I missing something you referred to? ROI for Cleveland was bad. He was supposed to start the entire year and Baker watch. But they only got 3 games out of a 3rd round draft pick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: ROI for Cleveland was bad. He was supposed to start the entire year and Baker watch. But they only got 3 games out of a 3rd round draft pick. Ah, gotcha. I’m only halfway into my morning coffee. Thanks for the clarification. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 31 minutes ago, K-9 said: Per the bold, I’m confused. Are you talking about the 3rd we got from Cleveland in the TT trade? If so, we traded that pick to Baltimore as part of the deal to move up and get Edmunds. Am I missing something you referred to? I think this trade was what finally proved that Beane is a witch. Better than Alonso for McCoy, even. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 24 minutes ago, Gugny said: I think this trade was what finally proved that Beane is a witch. Better than Alonso for McCoy, even. Nothing will ever beat Sheppard for Hughes, though. That trade is Whaley's Stairway to Heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, eball said: And Beane deserves that much more credit for getting a top of the 3rd round pick from Cleveland for him! I’ll give him credit but an equal or greater debit for the Benjamin trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 42 minutes ago, eball said: Nothing will ever beat Sheppard for Hughes, though. That trade is Whaley's Stairway to Heaven. Absolutely.....he earned his passage through the Pearly Gates with that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Chemical said: I’ll give him credit but an equal or greater debit for the Benjamin trade. Not even close. The Bills gave up a low 3rd (#85) and 7th for a proven WR with production. Benjamin obviously didn't pan out but it wasn't a crazy trade. Edited June 5, 2019 by eball 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, eball said: Not even close. The Bills gave up a low 3rd and 7th for a proven WR with production. Benjamin obviously didn't pan out but it wasn't a crazy trade. Trades should not be judged by how they ended up, but rather based on the information available at the time. Benjamin didn't work out, but at the time it was a solid trade. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 39 minutes ago, Chemical said: I’ll give him credit but an equal or greater debit for the Benjamin trade. That's fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Trades should not be judged by how they ended up, but rather based on the information available at the time. Benjamin didn't work out, but at the time it was a solid trade. At the time, it was widely known that Benjamin was a fat toad in a league trending towards speed and versatility, and that the team that drafted him was ready to cut ties. What else was there to know? It was a horrible trade both in its strategy and its outcome. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 In looking back through this thread and all the stuff going back and forth, I thought it worth mentioning that you can be impressed by the job Beane and McD are doing even though you may not agree with every move, or even if every move doesn't pan out. To me, I'm impressed because they have a plan they feel will make the team a contender for years to come, and they are working in tandem to bring that dream to fruition. Unlike some organizations I've seen inside and outside of sports, where decisions sometimes are haphazard and/or there seems to be a new 5 year plan every year, these guys are at least consistent in their approach. They believe in a certain type of culture that promotes success, they preach that, they look for players and I assume front office and coaching staff that fit that, they set consistent expectations not only for players and staff but themselves, and believe in accountability. They know they need a potential franchise QB; they do what they have to in order to be in position to draft one. Then they focus on putting things around him to succeed. And so on. I don't agree with all they've done; I'd still like to have Sammy here for example. But that's OK. I don't have a crystal ball, they may be very successful and they may flame out. But I have to say I'm impressed thus far with how they go about what they do. There's a focus and consistency in purpose that is appealing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: That's ridiculous. Trades are judged on the outcome. Bills got a real nice return for Tyrod and an equally bad one for Benjamin. Scott, comments like these are why no one takes you seriously... 20 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: At the time, it was widely known that Benjamin was a fat toad in a league trending towards speed and versatility, and that the team that drafted him was ready to cut ties. What else was there to know? It was a horrible trade both in its strategy and its outcome. Yeah, that's fair. On the other hand, the team that drafted him wasn't just "cutting ties." They had a younger version of him still on a rookie contract. I don't think his size was any different from when put up a 100 yard season. At that time, it is fair to say it was debatable, but it wasn't nearly as bad as you are representing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: At the time, it was widely known that Benjamin was a fat toad in a league trending towards speed and versatility, and that the team that drafted him was ready to cut ties. What else was there to know? It was a horrible trade both in its strategy and its outcome. Yeah I gotta agree with Coach on this one.....the KB trade was a chance that Beane took that he could return to his earlier form and not his current form (questions about dedication.....drops...weight...injuries) The thing is....I dont have a problem taking those kinds of swings....you dont get better without taking chances.....the bills do this and they are showing it time and time again with this new mgt...they dont play it safe. They COULD have drafted Josh Rosen (who was supposed to be the more polished player) and instead they made aggressive moves to get the raw but huge ceiling prospect in Josh Allen (for example) What they did do that showed their smarts was not HANG onto a player stubbornly that showed they were not the answer.....KB was given ample opportunity to show he could be a one......when it was shown he could not they did not hang onto him because he was a former Panther.......they moved on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Think you got it backwards bud. They got absolutely nothing from Benjamin. It was a ***** trade. Yes. It was a move that didn't work out. But based on the information available at the time of the trade, there was a low percentage likelihood it would end up the way it did. Let's imagine we trade a 7th round pick for Aaron Rodgers, and immediately after the trade he blows out his knee and retires from football. The outcome is as bad as it can be, but does that still mean it was a bad trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: ROI for Cleveland was bad. He was supposed to start the entire year and Baker watch. But they only got 3 games out of a 3rd round draft pick. It was bad value but you have to remember that the Browns had stacked so many picks that they didn't know how they were going to fit them all on their 53 man roster. Everyone was praising them for accumulating a ton of draft picks but that's not really the way to build a roster..........it needs to be a combination of rookies, young vets and experienced vets..........timing is very important.......you don't want a bunch of star young talents hitting free agency just as they are learning how to win games. Taylor was supposed to come in and help them become a .500 team so Mayfield had something to build on. Taylor had proven he could protect the football and be a catalyst for a strong running game. He wasn't great in Buffalo in 2017 but I think his play clearly fell off drastically with the Browns. The deep ball was entirely gone and his accuracy had worsened and he was not as elusive/explosive running the ball. In any event the Bills were the beneficiary of the Browns imbalanced-toward-picks roster build. But the Browns now have one of the most talented rosters in football. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Scott, comments like these are why no one takes you seriously... I should bring up the Mike Gillisee and Tyrod Taylor threads...lots of great takes from Scott in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, eball said: Nothing will ever beat Sheppard for Hughes, though. That trade is Whaley's Stairway to Heaven. Signing Taylor and Lorax for like $1M each were INCREDIBLE values too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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