Daniel Jeremiah - Jonah Williams is someone to watch

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I’d have to trust that they know what they are doing.  Sure, he is a good prospect, but it doesn’t seem like he is a great prospect.  The line would project as a good C, an old career backup T and 3 guys who should be G.

 

I should say that in general I am OK with taking a good solid prospect at 9 - doesn’t have to be a swing for the fences guy to make me happy, but I think there have to be equivalent or better prospects available at more important positions than G.

 

I get that he might be capable of playing T, but do you really need two guys (Dawkins and Williams) that likely should be Gs playing OT?

 

 

No particular reason to think Dawkins is a G playing OT. He played very well at tackle as a rookie and thinks he knows the problems he had last year. He could easily play very well at tackle.

[OldTimer1960]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No particular reason to think Dawkins is a G playing OT. He played very well at tackle as a rookie and thinks he knows the problems he had last year. He could easily play very well at tackle.

I agree that Dawkins could play well at T - as Jonah Williams might also, but many thought that Dawkins would be better suited inside and many think the same about Williams.  That doesn't necessarily mean that they can't play T, but with the 9th pick I would hope that they can find a player who better fits the desired height, weight, strength, quickness than Williams does for OT.  

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

Not sure how many people listen to Daniel Jeremiah's podcast, but he dropped the nugget about the Bills "I have heard from a ton of different people, Jonah Williams is someone to watch there."

 

Just thought I would let people know.

 

Here is his last mock of 2018:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000928661/article/jeremiah-mock-draft-40-browns-pick-baker-mayfield-no-1

 

Had the Bills trading up for Josh Allen

 

Would be nice in a trade down.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I really don't like him at 9, however, if Daboll thinks he is the guy, having coached him and seen him first hand, I can't argue with it. If you take him, I think you make the Zach Martin move and plug him at right guard. He's likely an all pro quickly there. I think Williams is the level of guard prospect, but I just don't like it at 9.  

 

Quentin Nelson went 6 overall to the colts and kid is a star pro bowler.

 

 

[Max Fischer]

9 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I don't think that anyone really believes that his floor is perennial AP anything.

 

The only way he makes sense at 9 is if they see him as a future LT, so maybe there's something to that 

 

Nope, many top evaluators believe JW is one of the best football players in the draft, not just OL. He can start at LT and be a superb guard. 

 

Seems amazing to me that anyone would dismiss a versatile, potential perennial all-pro and 10-year starter at ANY position, let alone a position of need. Guard is a need and believe it or not, guard and RT are nearly as important as LT (see Colts transformation by a guard). 

 

 

[Max Fischer]

8 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Yeah...Quentin Nelson was a huge reach...

 

Oh, my.

 

Name how many great guards the Bills have had over the past 15 years. 

 

Now recall the guards during Super Bowl years. 

 

I truly don’t understand the unproductive bias fans have toward guards, cornerbacks and the kicking game. The first people to run screaming to the board to complain about those positions. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I don't hate OL or TE if the elite DL are off the board. 

 

OL, DL, and fans will hate this, CB are positions you can never have enough good players. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by TheTruthHurts

[OldTimer1960]

33 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Nope, many top evaluators believe JW is one of the best football players in the draft, not just OL. He can start at LT and be a superb guard. 

 

Seems amazing to me that anyone would dismiss a versatile, potential perennial all-pro and 10-year starter at ANY position, let alone a position of need. Guard is a need and believe it or not, guard and RT are nearly as important as LT (see Colts transformation by a guard). 

 

 

I believe that OL is important, but I believe that that both OT positions are harder to fill and require better players than G.  I also don't think the comparison of Jonah Williams to Zach Martin is a good one.  Martin is much stronger and more powerful than Williams. 

 

I know that you can't necessarily judge a football player by how their body looks, but at the Combine Williams' body didn't look like a top athlete and he didn't really measure or test as one, either.

Edited April 10, 2019 by OldTimer1960

[eball]

13 hours ago, Ittakestime said:

Not sure how many people listen to Daniel Jeremiah's podcast, but he dropped the nugget about the Bills "I have heard from a ton of different people, Jonah Williams is someone to watch there."

 

Just thought I would let people know.

 

Here is his last mock of 2018:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000928661/article/jeremiah-mock-draft-40-browns-pick-baker-mayfield-no-1

 

Had the Bills trading up for Josh Allen

 

I believe I saw something last year that ranked the mock drafters and while they're all notoriously bad, Jeremiah consistently had the best results.  The guy seems to be connected and/or knows what he's talking about.

[thebandit27]

54 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Nope, many top evaluators believe JW is one of the best football players in the draft, not just OL. He can start at LT and be a superb guard. 

 

Seems amazing to me that anyone would dismiss a versatile, potential perennial all-pro and 10-year starter at ANY position, let alone a position of need. Guard is a need and believe it or not, guard and RT are nearly as important as LT (see Colts transformation by a guard). 

 

 

 

If anyone actually believed that Jonah's floor was perennial all pro guard, then he'd be talked about as a top 5 pick without prejudice.

 

Regarding the Colts, perhaps you didn't watch much of them, but I'd like to submit that their transformation had more to do with getting their all pro QB back on the field under the guidance of an offensive minded HC than it did the drafting of a LG.

 

Nelson's great, but I let's remember that teams find guards that are 90% as good in rounds 3-7 every year.

 

Spending a premium pick on a non-premium position is a bad investment.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

If anyone actually believed that Jonah's floor was perennial all pro guard, then he'd be talked about as a top 5 pick without prejudice.

 

Regarding the Colts, perhaps you didn't watch much of them, but I'd like to submit that their transformation had more to do with getting their all pro QB back on the field under the guidance of an offensive minded HC than it did the drafting of a LG.

 

Nelson's great, but I let's remember that teams find guards that are 90% as good in rounds 3-7 every year.

 

Spending a premium pick on a non-premium position is a bad investment.

I disagree pretty strongly with this because prior to last season, Luck was a sack magnet and the team couldn’t run the ball well consistently. Last season he was the least sacked qb in the league and the team ran the ball well. The upshot: Indy had its best ranking in team offensive DVOA in Luck’s entire career there. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by dave mcbride

[CIrvine]

Tua throws left.  Shouldn't we be looking at Alabama's RT?

[OldTimer1960]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

If anyone actually believed that Jonah's floor was perennial all pro guard, then he'd be talked about as a top 5 pick without prejudice.

 

Regarding the Colts, perhaps you didn't watch much of them, but I'd like to submit that their transformation had more to do with getting their all pro QB back on the field under the guidance of an offensive minded HC than it did the drafting of a LG.

 

Nelson's great, but I let's remember that teams find guards that are 90% as good in rounds 3-7 every year.

 

Spending a premium pick on a non-premium position is a bad investment.

FWIW, I completely agree with this whole point.  IF they felt with strong conviction that Williams' would very likely be a multi-time Pro Bowl G, then I don't think that many would complain about selecting him at 9.  However, G is not a premium position (not to say it isn't important), and is not as hard to fill as other positions.

 

From my vantage point, I don't think that Williams is a guaranteed pro bowler at G.  I see a guy who excelled against the best college competition, but is undersized and under powered for OT and likely G as well.  Can his skill set overcome those limitations?  Can he get stronger/more powerful?  

 

I just wonder if he has maxed out his potential.  He's refined his techniques and has the right attitude (reportedly).  I do think that he will likely be a good starting OL in the NFL - more likely at G, but possibly also at T.  I don't think the team that drafts him will view him as a weak link that they are trying to replace, but I don't think either that he is going to step into the NFL and be a dominating player.

 

I would be happy to have Jonah Williams on the Bills, but I think that there will be better options than him available at pick 9.

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said:

FWIW, I completely agree with this whole point.  IF they felt with strong conviction that Williams' would very likely be a multi-time Pro Bowl G, then I don't think that many would complain about selecting him at 9.  However, G is not a premium position (not to say it isn't important), and is not as hard to fill as other positions.

 

From my vantage point, I don't think that Williams is a guaranteed pro bowler at G.  I see a guy who excelled against the best college competition, but is undersized and under powered for OT and likely G as well.  Can his skill set overcome those limitations?  Can he get stronger/more powerful?  

 

I just wonder if he has maxed out his potential.  He's refined his techniques and has the right attitude (reportedly).  I do think that he will likely be a good starting OL in the NFL - more likely at G, but possibly also at T.  I don't think the team that drafts him will view him as a weak link that they are trying to replace, but I don't think either that he is going to step into the NFL and be a dominating player.

 

I would be happy to have Jonah Williams on the Bills, but I think that there will be better options than him available at pick 9.

Good stuff. You guys nailed it. Only thing I’d change is that I wouldn’t be happy with Jonah on the Bills. He is going in the first round, even if they traded back I could name 32 other guys I’d rather take a swing with. 

[MrEpsYtown]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Quentin Nelson went 6 overall to the colts and kid is a star pro bowler.

 

 

 

I understand this and people have said this about a hundred times on here. Jonah Williams is nowhere near the prospect that Nelson was. Not even close. Ill do an SAT analogy here. Jonah Williams is to Quentin Nelson as Shaq Lawson is to Khalil Mack. That's what we are talking about here. Williams in the top ten is a huge reach. Nelson was a plug and play dominator at the position. Williams has a better chance of being Luke Joeckel than he does of being Nelson. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

15 hours ago, BringBackFlutie said:

I keep seeing people say this.

 

There are two options for Dawkins: Left Tackle, or Left Guard.  He absolutely cannot play on the right side.

Isnt Nsekhe bad at RT as well. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Not the sexiest pick but he's a 10 year quality starter. I wouldn't B word one bit.

[thebandit27]

27 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I disagree pretty strongly with this because prior to last season, Luck was a sack magnet and the team couldn’t run the ball well consistently. Last season he was the least sacked qb in the league and the team ran the ball well. The upshot: Indy had its best ranking in team offensive DVOA in Luck’s entire career there. 

 

The OL as a whole was night and day for sure.

 

Nelson was a big component of that, but so too was 2nd round guard-turned-tackle Braden Smith, street FA Mark Glowinski, and Ryan Kelly's return to health.

 

And I know you recognize this, but would that OL and RB group have been the driving force of a 10-win team with Jacoby Brissett under center?

 

No doubt guard is important, and with the growth of the interior pass rusher types like Donald, Cox, and Chris Jones, it's hardly a "just throw this sub par OT or larger-than-average center in there" affair to fill the spots.

 

I simply don't think it's the difference-making position that would impel me to draft one in the top 10. Not when we see the best OG in football hit the open market in 2 of the last 3 offseasons.

[MrEpsYtown]

8 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Isnt Nsekhe bad at RT as well. 

 

Nobody knows. And people who claim they do are full of it. He has started just 16 NFL games and is 33 years old. He has played both positions and guard. He, Nsekhe, said in an interview somewhere that he prefers to play the left side, which is what every single tackle in the world would say because that is the money position and where the better player plays. If he said he prefers the right side, he sounds like a loser. 

[YoloinOhio]

22 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Nobody knows. And people who claim they do are full of it. He has started just 16 NFL games and is 33 years old. He has played both positions and guard. He, Nsekhe, said in an interview somewhere that he prefers to play the left side, which is what every single tackle in the world would say because that is the money position and where the better player plays. If he said he prefers the right side, he sounds like a loser. 

There are SO many factors that go into OL performance - Scheme, coaching, cohesion of unit, Center play, QB play (remember Daboll’s comment that some of the sacks were on Josh last year), etc etc that it’s like fingernails on a chalkboard everytime I see someone claim Nsekhe can’t play on the right or Dawkins can’t play on the right or Dawkins should be a guard.... we saw Dawkins for a very small sample size at RT which was his first action as a rookie and next to crap at RG. Nsekhe and Waddle can both technically play either side ... I’m not saying that any LT can play RT but I don’t see anything definitive that our LTs won’t be able to. There are a ton of changes on this OL and it will be a big time process putting it all together but perhaps with huge dividends and I don’t lock anyone out of any role on the OL just yet. Only spot locked up is starting C. Ok rant over. It just grinds my gears. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by YoloinOhio