SouthNYfan Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: QB is always the exception. If you don't have a QB you should take one even if he is not pure BPA. If you have one then you can ignore one even if he is BPA. Didn't realize you said that when I quoted your other post. Glad we agree. 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: One thing to consider regarding the QB is that they will almost never be the BPA. They are ALWAYS overdrafted because of the position value. Punters are on the other end of the spectrum. Positional value is a bit of a factor but less now than its ever been. Also true, barring exceptions like Peyton, luck, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 35 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: ‘Died in the wool’ is great Thanks for pointing that out. Fixed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 BPA is completely overblown now.., ALL 32 teams have 32 different boards set up to match their philosophy and needs. a team may have someone top 10 in their board and he may not even be on the top 20 of another teams board One teams bpa is not every teams bpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 If Rashan Gary is BPA We shouldn’t take BPA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I find it all fascinating and I know you put your own board together but I have very limited college player knowledge. It's one of the reason I started coming to these boards was to get poster input of the draft. Here is a "what if" scenario that I would like your opinion on. Lets say for the sake of argument the Bills have your board. You have 20 1st round grades. The Bills like a player on the top of the second round but feel he won't be there at #40. Teams at the bottom of the 1st round also feel that the talent isn't there and are willing to trade out. Does a team (the Bills) NOT trade back into the 31st pick to get that player because he's not "1st round talent"? I think this starts to get to an area of actual want vs. reach. It seems to get very "human" at this point. Moves like this probably separate average GMs vs. great GMs. Lastly, I think that guys like Kiper and his "draft day player lists" cloud what individual teams do to put their boards together. So I have 20 1sts and then I think 6 or 7 (not got my board infront of me right now) borderlines. If I have a guy as a borderline and it meshes with a specific position of need I might be willing to trade up to the back end of the 1st for him. Depends on the price. If he has a firm 2nd round grade on my board then personally, no. I am not willing to pay to get back into the first... I'd only be willing to go up a few spots in the second. 2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: BPA is completely overblown now.., ALL 32 teams have 32 different boards set up to match their philosophy and needs. a team may have someone top 10 in their board and he may not even be on the top 20 of another teams board One teams bpa is not every teams bpa This is also a very important point. A team who plays mostly man to man on the outside isn't going to have someone like Murphy the corner out of Washington who I think is really a zone corner in their 1st round. Another team who are a zone style defence might have him not only as a 1st rounder but in the top 10. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: BPA is completely overblown now.., ALL 32 teams have 32 different boards set up to match their philosophy and needs. a team may have someone top 10 in their board and he may not even be on the top 20 of another teams board One teams bpa is not every teams bpa Right. I get that. But what I'm asking is what if a corner or safety or other "non-need" position is the clear cut best player left on THEIR BOARD SPECIFICALLY? Do they take said player, or do they not? Several folks have replied mentioning a tiered grading system, the stacking of players with similar grades based on positional value and need, etc...So, going with that, let's suppose in my original scenario that the Bills have all the offensive players ("need" players) I listed in tier 2 of their board. The corner or safety is in tier 1. They've gotta take the corner or safety, right? Are you okay with it if they do? That's what this thread is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poleshifter Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 46 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: That is pretty much my grading scale. What you generally find is a lot of players end up bunching together in that 6.0-6.9 range and again 5.0-5.9..... I have 20 first round grades in this draft. I have more than 64 players with 2nr or 3rd round grades though. In the situation that Logic gave us Abram would be the BPA on my board. Harry and Risner are a little lower (to the extent I'd consider either of them over Abram not being true to BPA. Say Abram is gone however..... then Risner and Harry are right together on my board and then it comes down to "do you want the receiver or the tackle?" That is where need comes into it. Bill, would you consider posting your lists of 1st Rd and 2/3 round grades before the draft? It would be fascinating to see how your lists match what happens in the draft (not that we would hold you to it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Didn't realize you said that when I quoted your other post. Glad we agree. Also true, barring exceptions like Peyton, luck, etc Yep, and that is with the 1st overall pick. RG3 and Leaf are 2 off the top of my head that were legit BPA after the 1st pick. It’s rare though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: BPA is completely overblown now.., ALL 32 teams have 32 different boards set up to match their philosophy and needs. a team may have someone top 10 in their board and he may not even be on the top 20 of another teams board One teams bpa is not every teams bpa How does that change this discussion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Exactly what I've been saying. BPA has a lot of layers to it. It's who the BILLS feel is the best player available. If for whatever reason they have say, drew lock, a QB, as their highest graded player left when #9 rolls around they aren't taking lock, because he isn't on the bills board. I think, as you said, there are multiple things that go into it. Talent, player health, character, scheme fit, positional need all factor in the equation that determines "best player available" That's a good way to put it, layers. In your example I also think that a team (the Bills) have Lock graded on their positional board highly. Let's say he graded a top 2nd rounder. IF Lock drops way below that there has to be a point where "talent" outweighs other factors. If you think about it that's what Belichick does and why he drafts guys like Garoppolo. He gets a very good backup in a critical position for cheap and can trade him off later for a decent pick. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Logic said: Right. I get that. But what I'm asking is what if a corner or safety or other "non-need" position is the clear cut best player left on THEIR BOARD SPECIFICALLY? Do they take said player, or do they not? Several folks have replied mentioning a tiered grading system, the stacking of players with similar grades based on positional value and need, etc...So, going with that, let's suppose in my original scenario that the Bills have all the offensive players ("need" players) I listed in tier 2 of their board. The corner or safety is in tier 1. They've gotta take the corner or safety, right? Are you okay with it if they do? That's what this thread is about. If they are graded a tier higher you 100% take them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Poleshifter said: Bill, would you consider posting your lists of 1st Rd and 2/3 round grades before the draft? It would be fascinating to see how your lists match what happens in the draft (not that we would hold you to it!) I normally end up listing my 1st round grades on here at some point pre draft. There are a few too many 2nd and 3rds to make that a time worthy exercise but I also at various points in the live draft day threads do updated lists of the top 10 remaining on my big board. I also in my annual day 1 and day 2 debrief threads post a top 10 remaining too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Yep, and that is with the 1st overall pick. RG3 and Leaf are 2 off the top of my head that were legit BPA after the 1st pick. It’s rare though. And id argue if you are drafting 1 and the best player is a qb odds are you should take him unless there’s a hell of an explanation for why your current qb took you to the worst record in the league Edited April 7, 2019 by NoSaint 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 BPA except for QB obviously!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Logic said: Right. I get that. But what I'm asking is what if a corner or safety or other "non-need" position is the clear cut best player left on THEIR BOARD SPECIFICALLY? Do they take said player, or do they not? Several folks have replied mentioning a tiered grading system, the stacking of players with similar grades based on positional value and need, etc...So, going with that, let's suppose in my original scenario that the Bills have all the offensive players ("need" players) I listed in tier 2 of their board. The corner or safety is in tier 1. They've gotta take the corner or safety, right? Are you okay with it if they do? That's what this thread is about. If they believe he is the best player for their system and he is graded out that high you go with him unless it’s a minuscule difference. If they have rock ya at a 7.0 and everybody else around him at a 6.2 you taken the corner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 It may not be pure BPA, but with so many players graded very closely into tiers or groups, the virtual tie goes go to need. If you’re splitting hairs, I’m sure they take that into account. But you don’t drop down into another tier of players just because you need, say, an OT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, NoSaint said: How does that change this discussion? I didn’t have a take on any discussion or call anybody out all I stated was bpa is different for every team. It’s not Cookie cutter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Warcodered said: how do you define BPA? I define it as the player you think would contribute the most value to your team without regard to roster needs. Factors considered include raw talent, motor, scheme fit, intelligence, personality, and position value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Just now, Rob's House said: I define it as the player you think would contribute the most value to your team without regard to roster needs. Factors considered include raw talent, motor, scheme fit, intelligence, personality, and position value. I don't get how you can determine the value a player brings to your team without considering your own roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 How do trades factor in your concept of BPA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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