Revisiting an old Josh Allen thread from before the draft

[metzelaars_lives]

Hey guys, I couldn't figure out how to re-up an old Josh Allen thread I started from before the draft so I have copy and pasted my original post, verbatim, below.  I have bolded some of the things I think I got right.  I feel like some of you might remember it.  Yeah, it's a 'look at me post'.  Enjoy.

 

 

So I moved to Denver, from Buffalo, in 2002 and almost immediately adopted Wyoming as my college team (pretty much because I think they have the best uniforms in sports).  Anyway I have ramped up my fandom in recent years and, at this point, am a pretty diehard fan.  In short, I have watched every game Josh Allen has played as a college QB.  I have driven up to Laramie to see them/him play four times (three times in 2016 and once last year).  Incidentally, they were 3-1 in those games and he played good to great in all of them.  The win against Boise State (who was undefeated and ranked in the teens at the time) in 2016 was one of the best football games I've ever attended in my life (the greatest comeback against the Oilers obviously being #1).  

 

So this is NOT a Josh Allen excuse thread, nor am I a Josh Allen "fanboy."  And full disclosure, I probably have him as the #2 or 3 QB on my board (you can call me a Mayfield fanboy if you want).  This is a thread containing FACTS for all the Biff from Tonawandas who think they suddenly know more about football than NFL scouts, analysts, GM's and coaches.  Just trying to dispel a lot of disinformation floating around.  

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

Josh Allen "wasn't good" in college: FALSE

 

The 2016 Wyoming squad was loaded with offensive talent.  Literally five of their key offensive players were seniors who played with NFL teams into preseason last year and four are currently on NFL rosters.  That being said, it was Josh Allen's first year as a college QB.  With all of those guys as juniors the previous season, they went 2-10.  With Allen, they ended up 8-6 but were 8-3 before losing a meaningless game against New Mexico and then two nailbiters against San Diego State (MWC Championship game) and BYU (bowl game).  He was very good.  He went from an unheralded JuCo transfer to a guy being thrown around as the #1 pick in this draft halfway through his first college season.  Really ask yourself, Biff, if a guy could do that without being "good."  His completion percentage was lower than you might like but he had a propensity, especially in 2016, to throw the ball downfield A LOT.  For perspective, Brian Hill (now on the Bengals), played most every down, was second in the nation in rushing that year and is a very elusive back.  He had NINE RECEPTIONS ALL SEASON.  Ask yourself, if Hill caught 40 balls and Allen's completion percentage was 66% instead of 56% in 2016, would we even be having that conversation?  Even with his 56% completion percentage, he was named the 2nd team MWC QB (Brett Rypien, Mark's son, had better numbers, but few would argue Allen wasn't a more impactful player that year) as well as the MWC preseason player of the year going into 2017.  Not bad for not being good, huh?

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

Josh Allen had no weapons in 2017: TRUE

 

I was on here trying to tell anyone who would listen, prior to the 2017 season, that Josh Allen's numbers would be way down.  It's easy for you, Biff, to call that an excuse but here's a little perspective: he lost his top two running backs, his top two receivers, his tight end and his center (again, four of these guys are in the NFL now).  Their leading rusher went from a guy who finished 2nd in FBS to a freshman who was LITERALLY converted from a linebacker right before the season started.  They struggled a ton on offense in 2017.  Allen's numbers did not impress.  Anyone who follows Wyoming football could've told you that would be the case.  All of their skill position players were unheralded freshmen and sophomores playing their first college football games, save for two guys who played sparingly in 2016 and aren't very good (see: CJ Johnson's drop of a beautiful deep ball for a would-be TD against Iowa in week 1).  So when Biff is on here telling you that Josh Allen struggled against Iowa and Oregon, well, no s***.  Of course he did.  And you know what, as someone who follows the program, his attitude literally could not have been better all last season.  Not once did he even come remotely close to making an excuse for his numbers or complaining about the glaring lack of talent around him.  Oh yeah, Wyoming was 8-3 with Josh Allen in 2017 and 0-2 without him.  Oh yeah part 2, watch his three TD passes from the bowl game against Central Michigan and tell me how many PRO QB's make all three of those throws.

 

 

FACT CHECK: 

 

There is more to Josh Allen than his "strong arm" and "big hands": TRUE

 

Did you know that in addition to having the best arm we've maybe ever seen coming out of college football that Josh Allen is unbelievably strong, elusive, can juke and bowl over defenders, and makes throws on the run and across his body as well as any prospect I've ever seen?  Well that happens to be the case.  The Cam Newton comparisons are not crazy.  Watch his highlights from the first San Diego State game, the UNLV game from 2016- hell, before you go spouting off, watch a freaking highlight tape of the guy.

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

The comparisons to JaMarcus Russell are beyond insulting: TRUE

 

Go on youtube.com and watch a video of former teammates talking about JaMarcus Russell skipping meetings, being utterly disengaged, eating copious amounts of s****y food to the point where he weighed in at 300 lbs., etc.  Also guessing JaMarcus Russell didn't score a 37 on the wonderlic.  Josh Allen is as good of a teammate and leader as you will find in the college football ranks.

 

 

Will all of this translate into him being a great pro?  I don't know.  I absolutely see the bust potential.  He is still unrefined.  He would be best-suited, in my opinion, going to a team like San Diego.  He absolutely has a gunslinger mentality.  But to all you Biff from Tonawandas out there, so sure of yourselves (God does this remind me of when half the board was mocking Carolina for taking Newton #1), I really, really hope you eat a fistful of crow and that you have the sacks to show up and admit you were wrong.  An acceptable stance is, "gee I'm not buying the Allen hype but if an NFL team sees it, I gotta think they know more than I do."  That's fair.  But the unbelievable levels of ignorance on this board, ie. "I wouldn't take him in the fifth round; I will no longer be a Bills fan if they take him, etc"... dude just give it a rest already.  PLEASE.  I am so over it.  At this point, I am so sick of hearing from the naysayers that I will be rooting for Josh Allen no matter who he gets drafted by, and that includes the Jets.  Not the Dolphins though.

 

Go Bills!

Edited January 23, 2019 by metzelaars_lives

[Rc2catch]

Well yay.. thanks for reposting 

[Nextmanup]

Yeah, I remember you.

 

 

[GRHater69]

For a real challenge, let's revisit all these threads in January 2020 and see how Allen is progressing. I liked what I saw a lot toward the end of the season, but need to see a lot more next year. I've been fooled too many times with QBs in the past.

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

I remember that post, i didnt realize how accurate it appears to have been , thanks for reposting it.  Not many Wyoming football fans posting here.

[row_33]

14 minutes ago, GRHater69 said:

For a real challenge, let's revisit all these threads in January 2020 and see how Allen is progressing. I liked what I saw a lot toward the end of the season, but need to see a lot more next year. I've been fooled too many times with QBs in the past.

 

 

 

we were kind of 100% certain on most of the bombs from day one

 

 

[JESSEFEFFER]

I remember the original because it was so emphatically supportive.  Not too many of those and it really stood out at the time.  Your looking like you passed the eye test.

[metzelaars_lives]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

 

we were kind of 100% certain on most of the bombs from day one

 

 

Exactly.  When were we highest on any of the QB’s that have come and gone during the drought?  Losman had an ok 2006 but I don’t remember anyone being that psyched.  Edwards looked great through 5-6 games in 2008 but then imploded altogether.  EJ Manuel had like one good game against Carolina but his stock never got higher than that.  I suppose Tyrod’s first two years before we realized he kind of was what he was, would’ve been the highest I’ve ever been on a guy until Allen.

[Your Brown Eye]

You are a true wizard, Nostradamus is proud 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Your Brown Eye

[Mr. WEO]

Let's repost all of the threads containing the wisdom of "sitting Josh out for a year so he can learn".....!!

[JoPar_v2]

Cool...cool. Don’t hurt your arm patting yourself on the back. Jesus

[metzelaars_lives]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Let's repost all of the threads containing the wisdom of "sitting Josh out for a year so he can learn".....!!

I think that every QB could benefit to learn for a year under a real veteran QB (see: Patrick Mahomes).  I said so much in this post myself.  But when the only other QB on your roster is Nathan Peterman, then yeah, you may as well get your feet wet.

[billspro]

41 minutes ago, metzelaars_lives said:

Hey guys, I couldn't figure out how to re-up an old Josh Allen thread I started from before the draft so I have copy and pasted my original post, verbatim, below.  I have bolded some of the things I think I got right.  I feel like some of you might remember it.  Yeah, it's a 'look at me post'.  Enjoy.

 

 

So I moved to Denver, from Buffalo, in 2002 and almost immediately adopted Wyoming as my college team (pretty much because I think they have the best uniforms in sports).  Anyway I have ramped up my fandom in recent years and, at this point, am a pretty diehard fan.  In short, I have watched every game Josh Allen has played as a college QB.  I have driven up to Laramie to see them/him play four times (three times in 2016 and once last year).  Incidentally, they were 3-1 in those games and he played good to great in all of them.  The win against Boise State (who was undefeated and ranked in the teens at the time) in 2016 was one of the best football games I've ever attended in my life (the greatest comeback against the Oilers obviously being #1).  

 

So this is NOT a Josh Allen excuse thread, nor am I a Josh Allen "fanboy."  And full disclosure, I probably have him as the #2 or 3 QB on my board (you can call me a Mayfield fanboy if you want).  This is a thread containing FACTS for all the Biff from Tonawandas who think they suddenly know more about football than NFL scouts, analysts, GM's and coaches.  Just trying to dispel a lot of disinformation floating around.  

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

Josh Allen "wasn't good" in college: FALSE

 

The 2016 Wyoming squad was loaded with offensive talent.  Literally five of their key offensive players were seniors who played with NFL teams into preseason last year and four are currently on NFL rosters.  That being said, it was Josh Allen's first year as a college QB.  With all of those guys as juniors the previous season, they went 2-10.  With Allen, they ended up 8-6 but were 8-3 before losing a meaningless game against New Mexico and then two nailbiters against San Diego State (MWC Championship game) and BYU (bowl game).  He was very good.  He went from an unheralded JuCo transfer to a guy being thrown around as the #1 pick in this draft halfway through his first college season.  Really ask yourself, Biff, if a guy could do that without being "good."  His completion percentage was lower than you might like but he had a propensity, especially in 2016, to throw the ball downfield A LOT.  For perspective, Brian Hill (now on the Bengals), played most every down, was second in the nation in rushing that year and is a very elusive back.  He had NINE RECEPTIONS ALL SEASON.  Ask yourself, if Hill caught 40 balls and Allen's completion percentage was 66% instead of 56% in 2016, would we even be having that conversation?  Even with his 56% completion percentage, he was named the 2nd team MWC QB (Brett Rypien, Mark's son, had better numbers, but few would argue Allen wasn't a more impactful player that year) as well as the MWC preseason player of the year going into 2017.  Not bad for not being good, huh?

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

Josh Allen had no weapons in 2017: TRUE

 

I was on here trying to tell anyone who would listen, prior to the 2017 season, that Josh Allen's numbers would be way down.  It's easy for you, Biff, to call that an excuse but here's a little perspective: he lost his top two running backs, his top two receivers, his tight end and his center (again, four of these guys are in the NFL now).  Their leading rusher went from a guy who finished 2nd in FBS to a freshman who was LITERALLY converted from a linebacker right before the season started.  They struggled a ton on offense in 2017.  Allen's numbers did not impress.  Anyone who follows Wyoming football could've told you that would be the case.  All of their skill position players were unheralded freshmen and sophomores playing their first college football games, save for two guys who played sparingly in 2016 and aren't very good (see: CJ Johnson's drop of a beautiful deep ball for a would-be TD against Iowa in week 1).  So when Biff is on here telling you that Josh Allen struggled against Iowa and Oregon, well, no s***.  Of course he did.  And you know what, as someone who follows the program, his attitude literally could not have been better all last season.  Not once did he even come remotely close to making an excuse for his numbers or complaining about the glaring lack of talent around him.  Oh yeah, Wyoming was 8-3 with Josh Allen in 2017 and 0-2 without him.  Oh yeah part 2, watch his three TD passes from the bowl game against Central Michigan and tell me how many PRO QB's make all three of those throws.

 

 

FACT CHECK: 

 

There is more to Josh Allen than his "strong arm" and "big hands": TRUE

 

Did you know that in addition to having the best arm we've maybe ever seen coming out of college football that Josh Allen is unbelievably strong, elusive, can juke and bowl over defenders, and makes throws on the run and across his body as well as any prospect I've ever seen?  Well that happens to be the case.  The Cam Newton comparisons are not crazy.  Watch his highlights from the first San Diego State game, the UNLV game from 2016- hell, before you go spouting off, watch a freaking highlight tape of the guy.

 

 

FACT CHECK:

 

The comparisons to JaMarcus Russell are beyond insulting: TRUE

 

Go on youtube.com and watch a video of former teammates talking about JaMarcus Russell skipping meetings, being utterly disengaged, eating copious amounts of s****y food to the point where he weighed in at 300 lbs., etc.  Also guessing JaMarcus Russell didn't score a 37 on the wonderlic.  Josh Allen is as good of a teammate and leader as you will find in the college football ranks.

 

 

Will all of this translate into him being a great pro?  I don't know.  I absolutely see the bust potential.  He is still unrefined.  He would be best-suited, in my opinion, going to a team like San Diego.  He absolutely has a gunslinger mentality.  But to all you Biff from Tonawandas out there, so sure of yourselves (God does this remind me of when half the board was mocking Carolina for taking Newton #1), I really, really hope you eat a fistful of crow and that you have the sacks to show up and admit you were wrong.  An acceptable stance is, "gee I'm not buying the Allen hype but if an NFL team sees it, I gotta think they know more than I do."  That's fair.  But the unbelievable levels of ignorance on this board, ie. "I wouldn't take him in the fifth round; I will no longer be a Bills fan if they take him, etc"... dude just give it a rest already.  PLEASE.  I am so over it.  At this point, I am so sick of hearing from the naysayers that I will be rooting for Josh Allen no matter who he gets drafted by, and that includes the Jets.  Not the Dolphins though.

 

Go Bills!

 

I remember reading this post predraft and seeing his performance at the senior bowl that made me question the negative takes on Allen. I actually increased my draft grade (probably should have been higher) after reading this post and watching a few more games. 

 

Glad you were correct!

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, metzelaars_lives said:

I think that every QB could benefit to learn for a year under a real veteran QB (see: Patrick Mahomes).  I said so much in this post myself.  But when the only other QB on your roster is Nathan Peterman, then yeah, you may as well get your feet wet.

 

 

Everyone who posted that it was important for Allen NOT to start his rookie year knew that he would be "learning" behind Peterman, AJ McCarron, etc.  Didn't stop them from making the claim though...

 

And I'm convinced that Mahomes would have been rookie of the year last year had he started from day one. 

[cage]

I remember this post.... well done!

[Tatonka68]

#17 ="MAKE BUFFALO GREAT AGAIN"  One day Allen will hoist the elusive Vince Lombardi Trophy at the Superbowl and ALL of Buffalo will love this kid.

You got to BILLIEVE!

[metzelaars_lives]

31 minutes ago, Your Brown Eye said:

You are a true wizard, Nostradamus is proud 

Notice I never said one thing about what type of pro he was going to be.  As someone who had watched every game he played in college, I was merely addressing the many people who had never seen him play in college, yet had adamant, steadfast opinions on him that were factually incorrect.

Edited January 23, 2019 by metzelaars_lives

[TheBeane]

Want a cookie?  ??

[Mat68]

He was a polarizing prospect as any from the last 10 years.  Imo you take risks on talent. Allen has all the ability in the world.  If he continues to work at it he has the ability to be a franchise Qb.  Put some more weapons around him, and some better protection I think he can make massive strides towards fulfilling that going into 2019.

[Utah John]

The reason a lot of teams sit a rookie QB and have him watch for a year is that he isn't ready to play and they don't want to ruin his confidence.  Or, they have an established starter and want to get another good season out of him, getting them the best chance to win.

 

I think the chance that Allen's confidence could be dented is about zero.  In his case I think his experience this past year will help him because he had to try out his tool set to see what worked and what needs replacing.  He wouldn't have had that chance sitting on the bench.  Also, what he would have learned this year is that the Bills have a lot of bad players on offense, and that information wouldn't be much use next year when they've upgraded the O line, the WRs, and the TE.  

 

I think Beane fell in love with the physical talent coupled with the best attitude I've ever seen in a QB.  Never brags, never throws a teammate under the bus, but still projects leadership and confidence.