Pyramid scheme or MLM?

[row_33]

19 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I've been looking into doing something like this. I need to understand what they did to him

 

good you still are concerned, with the internet all initiate information should be available if you look into it

 

the darker secrets won't be.... nah, they are probably there as well now...  :D

 

 

 

 

[Just Jack]

[plenzmd1]

 

On 12/18/2018 at 12:36 PM, Chef Jim said:

One of my staff members has a friend who is going to make $300k this year in a MLM company selling protein powder.  

God dang you old...staff member went out with the term personnel didn't it??

 

My wife has pretty much lost a friend over some cosmetic MLM company..Rodan and Fields. As the OP stated, it became her life, and it is all she ever talks about. I am not a facebooker, but i guess that is how they sell..to the point of even co-0ppting days like Memorial Day and mask a sales campaign as a charity campaign and guilt your friends into buying the product...

 

Guess for some money is more important than friends and integrity

 

https://www.allure.com/story/rodan-fields-skin-care-consultants

[Gugny]

Here's a snapshot of a couple weeks' worth of posts by my "soon to be a gazillionaire" facebook friend:

 

 

"Don't adapt to the energy in the room; influence the energy in the room."

 

"Would your income stop if you couldn't work?  What plan do you have in place if it does?  Curious ..."

 

"Two days ... another satisfied customer..."  (pushing the magic coffee that he's now peddling)

 

"I've tried keto ... couldn't do it, too restrictive and complicated for me.  Cup of happy coffee in the morning, down 14 lbs.  No restrictions."

 

"With a GIF, tell me what you want out of life right now."

 

"FACT:  Most people are looking for a side gig.

FACT:  And extra $500-$1000/month would change most families

FACT:  Most people fear what their friends and family would say.

FACT:  Your friends and family don't pay your bills, do they?"

FACT: This was me 8 years ago.  Don't be like me."

 

"For a lot of years I chased the money because I was conditioned to do so.  The last few years I've focused on helping others see the possibility in themselves.  It's by far more rewarding and by default by helping others.  The money follows"

 

"Real people, real results.  It's just coffee.  Simple."  (side by side pics of a man who lost weight)

 

"You weren't put here to just slave away building somebody else's dreams!!  Go after your passion and forget about what others say about it."  "If you are not willing to risk the unusual, you will have to settle for the ordinary."

[row_33]

they should have put this drive into chem-eng studies in their youth...

 

[May Day 10]

Another one are these "parties".  Like that 31 club for women or whatever its called

 

 

My wife has a friend in this that is always hounding her to gather her family members for a "31 party" so they can sit there on their free time and feel uncomfortable/pressured to by cheap and ugly crap.

[row_33]

22 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

Another one are these "parties".  Like that 31 club for women or whatever its called

 

 

My wife has a friend in this that is always hounding her to gather her family members for a "31 party" so they can sit there on their free time and feel uncomfortable/pressured to by cheap and ugly crap.

 

partners wives at a large accounting firm in the 1990s got an "envelope game" going with themselves and whomever else they could recruit

 

was quite lucrative for those who started it

 

then it was found out and investigated  :D

 

 

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

11 hours ago, Just Jack said:

I know where you got this. Lol. I made it.

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

God dang you old...staff member went out with the term personnel didn't it??

 

My wife has pretty much lost a friend over some cosmetic MLM company..Rodan and Fields. As the OP stated, it became her life, and it is all she ever talks about. I am not a facebooker, but i guess that is how they sell..to the point of even co-0ppting days like Memorial Day and mask a sales campaign as a charity campaign and guilt your friends into buying the product...

 

Guess for some money is more important than friends and integrity

 

https://www.allure.com/story/rodan-fields-skin-care-consultants

I've literally seen people post about how they wore the make up to their loved one's funeral, and how it didn't smear once while crying. 

[thebandit27]

Pretty simple to identify good business versus scam.

 

Is there a small, refundable investment, and zero purchase obligation afterwards?

Is there a product to sell?

Are all products fully refundable to customers?

Do you, and only you, get the cash commissions from your sales?

Does the benefit to your sponsor come only after you get paid, and not simply when you sign up?

Does your sponsor have a contractual obligation to help you?

Can you eventually out-earn your sponsor?

Can you quit at any time without having to pay any exorbitant fees?

 

If you answered "yes" to all of the above, then it's probably a legitimate business.

 

If you answered "no" to ANY of the above, then it's probably a scam.

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

Another one are these "parties".  Like that 31 club for women or whatever its called

 

 

My wife has a friend in this that is always hounding her to gather her family members for a "31 party" so they can sit there on their free time and feel uncomfortable/pressured to by cheap and ugly crap.

 

My ex lost a close friendship over this type of party thing.

[BillsFan4]

On 12/18/2018 at 10:24 PM, Not at the table Karlos said:

Does anyone have a story of these people returning to normal? It seems once they end up like this they're always gonna be like this

 

Yeah ive known a couple people over the years that have returned to normal. 

 

They just just kind of slowly lost interest as they either lost money or never made the money that they were promised, and eventually they just moved on. 

 

 

[thebandit27]

31 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

My ex lost a close friendship over this type of party thing.

 

See that I've never understood. I've always just said "no thanks, but I'm happy for you and hope you do well". Never had an issue 

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

See that I've never understood. I've always just said "no thanks, but I'm happy for you and hope you do well". Never had an issue 

 

The first party someone has is always successful.  Friends are into it because it's a party and they also want to be of some support.

 

But then comes the next party.  Attendance is lower and many people come, but don't buy anything because it's just the same crap.

 

At this time, my ex realized that there was no money to be made and she was basically reduced to harassing/begging friends to attend parties.  So she told the friend who got her started that she didn't want to do it anymore.  That friend is the one who basically said, "okay ... eff you, then."

 

So through this process, she pissed off multiple friends with the harassment about attending parties and lost a friend because she wanted out.

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

The first party someone has is always successful.  Friends are into it because it's a party and they also want to be of some support.

 

But then comes the next party.  Attendance is lower and many people come, but don't buy anything because it's just the same crap.

 

At this time, my ex realized that there was no money to be made and she was basically reduced to harassing/begging friends to attend parties.  So she told the friend who got her started that she didn't want to do it anymore.  That friend is the one who basically said, "okay ... eff you, then."

 

So through this process, she pissed off multiple friends with the harassment about attending parties and lost a friend because she wanted out.

 

Yeah, that attitude makes no sense to me. The friends I've had have always been cool about it 

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

There's also this weird hero worship. Not just of the founder, but even of the more successful members. I knew a woman who was very mildly involved in one, and went to the national convention. She happened to room with one of the most successful women in the company, and they sat next to each other, and the whole convention they kept getting stopped so someone could take a picture of/with this lady.

 

And if you ever get a chance to watch/listen to some of their training material, its usually just self help, believe in yourself BS. 

[LB3]

[May Day 10]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

See that I've never understood. I've always just said "no thanks, but I'm happy for you and hope you do well". Never had an issue 

 

 

It puts a strain on a friendship, depending on how pushy the "sales rep" I mean business "owner" is, and how their personality is.

 

Some expect their friends and family to be supportive of "their" business, and anything less than hosting parties and/or regularly buying crap is not supporting a friend/family member.

[Chef Jim]

5 hours ago, Gugny said:

Here's a snapshot of a couple weeks' worth of posts by my "soon to be a gazillionaire" facebook friend:

 

 

"Don't adapt to the energy in the room; influence the energy in the room."

 

"Would your income stop if you couldn't work?  What plan do you have in place if it does?  Curious ..."

 

"Two days ... another satisfied customer..."  (pushing the magic coffee that he's now peddling)

 

"I've tried keto ... couldn't do it, too restrictive and complicated for me.  Cup of happy coffee in the morning, down 14 lbs.  No restrictions."

 

"With a GIF, tell me what you want out of life right now."

 

"FACT:  Most people are looking for a side gig.

FACT:  And extra $500-$1000/month would change most families

FACT:  Most people fear what their friends and family would say.

FACT:  Your friends and family don't pay your bills, do they?"

FACT: This was me 8 years ago.  Don't be like me."

 

"For a lot of years I chased the money because I was conditioned to do so.  The last few years I've focused on helping others see the possibility in themselves.  It's by far more rewarding and by default by helping others.  The money follows"

 

"Real people, real results.  It's just coffee.  Simple."  (side by side pics of a man who lost weight)

 

"You weren't put here to just slave away building somebody else's dreams!!  Go after your passion and forget about what others say about it."  "If you are not willing to risk the unusual, you will have to settle for the ordinary."

 

There is this really cool feature on FB called unfriending.  You should try it.  

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

 

 

It puts a strain on a friendship, depending on how pushy the "sales rep" I mean business "owner" is, and how their personality is.

 

Some expect their friends and family to be supportive of "their" business, and anything less than hosting parties and/or regularly buying crap is not supporting a friend/family member.

 

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but seems to me that if your "friend" acts that way, then the business exposed their numbskullery as opposed to creating it.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

"Almost every job is a pyramid scam. You have a boss, and he has a boss, and he has a boss above him."

 

Yeah, Chad. But I didn't give my boss an $800 check to allow me to work here. 

[row_33]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but seems to me that if your "friend" acts that way, then the business exposed their numbskullery as opposed to creating it.

 

Family as well

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but seems to me that if your "friend" acts that way, then the business exposed their numbskullery as opposed to creating it.

In the case of my friend I mentioned earlier, he was making a considerable salary before he was laid off. From what I could see, his desperate situation made him that way.

[Misterbluesky]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

Here's a snapshot of a couple weeks' worth of posts by my "soon to be a gazillionaire" facebook friend:

 

 

"Don't adapt to the energy in the room; influence the energy in the room."

 

"Would your income stop if you couldn't work?  What plan do you have in place if it does?  Curious ..."

 

"Two days ... another satisfied customer..."  (pushing the magic coffee that he's now peddling)

 

"I've tried keto ... couldn't do it, too restrictive and complicated for me.  Cup of happy coffee in the morning, down 14 lbs.  No restrictions."

 

"With a GIF, tell me what you want out of life right now."

 

"FACT:  Most people are looking for a side gig.

FACT:  And extra $500-$1000/month would change most families

FACT:  Most people fear what their friends and family would say.

FACT:  Your friends and family don't pay your bills, do they?"

FACT: This was me 8 years ago.  Don't be like me."

 

"For a lot of years I chased the money because I was conditioned to do so.  The last few years I've focused on helping others see the possibility in themselves.  It's by far more rewarding and by default by helping others.  The money follows"

 

"Real people, real results.  It's just coffee.  Simple."  (side by side pics of a man who lost weight)

 

"You weren't put here to just slave away building somebody else's dreams!!  Go after your passion and forget about what others say about it."  "If you are not willing to risk the unusual, you will have to settle for the ordinary."

let me guess...Lenny Dykstra ?

13 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Family as well

My wife's cousin sold her a Kirby vacuum cleaner.

[Gugny]

20 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

let me guess...Lenny Dykstra ?

My wife's cousin sold her a Kirby vacuum cleaner.

 

Nails!!!

 

Also ... I have a Kirby.   Love that tank!!!

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

A guy I work with was raised in a literal cult growing up. Said he got the same eerie feeling when he was invited to one of the "meetings."

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

19 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

See that I've never understood. I've always just said "no thanks, but I'm happy for you and hope you do well". Never had an issue 

I was one of the last people to hear about their "new business". I got a bunch of calls and texts from other people asking if they tired to pitch me on this scheme. They told me the company, I did a little research and there was a bunch of info saying it's a scheme. I jokingly asked the person if they got tricked into a pyramid scheme and they lost it.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I was one of the last people to hear about their "new business". I got a bunch of calls and texts from other people asking if they tired to pitch me on this scheme. They told me the company, I did a little research and there was a bunch of info saying it's a scheme. I jokingly asked the person if they got tricked into a pyramid scheme and they lost it.

 

be there when you can to help out, the person means a lot to you, as if you needed special projects at this time of year though, right?

 

 

[Gugny]

10 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I was one of the last people to hear about their "new business". I got a bunch of calls and texts from other people asking if they tired to pitch me on this scheme. They told me the company, I did a little research and there was a bunch of info saying it's a scheme. I jokingly asked the person if they got tricked into a pyramid scheme and they lost it.

 

Ha!  They hate the "P" word!

[ExiledInIllinois]

On 12/20/2018 at 11:46 AM, Gugny said:

 

The first party someone has is always successful.  Friends are into it because it's a party and they also want to be of some support.

 

But then comes the next party.  Attendance is lower and many people come, but don't buy anything because it's just the same crap.

 

At this time, my ex realized that there was no money to be made and she was basically reduced to harassing/begging friends to attend parties.  So she told the friend who got her started that she didn't want to do it anymore.  That friend is the one who basically said, "okay ... eff you, then."

 

So through this process, she pissed off multiple friends with the harassment about attending parties and lost a friend because she wanted out.

I didn't really like this, but gave you a "Like."  I agree with the sentiment.  Sales is nothing but crap... Then there is the cut, the commision.  Just not me.  I harass family and friends enough with my ideals... I can't imagine selling something.

 

Anyway... I am off to the Festivus thread to air my grievance that there is no "in between" button between "Thanks" & "Like."  I would give your post the "Sad" rating... But it doesn't totally make me sad.  LoL... It kinda makes me happy, I like telling salespeople to ***** -off... LoL... Well, unless they get their meat hooks in Me first.  But, we all got a least a little bit of brutal consumer in us!

 

EDIT: This isn't saying I don't respect the hustle. I do respect the hustle, just leave me the ***** alone with the sales pitch.

Edited December 22, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[Gugny]

Latest FB post from my MLM/Pyramid Scheme friend:

 

"I wonder what percentage of families are stressing today over how much they spent for Christmas gifts."

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

On 12/20/2018 at 9:41 AM, Gugny said:

Cup of happy coffee in the morning, down 14 lbs.

A binnicky gall bladder will do that for you, too.  The problem is, it doesn’t know when to quit.  ?

Edited December 28, 2018 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[KD in CA]

On 12/20/2018 at 11:42 AM, Chef Jim said:

 

There is this really cool feature on FB called unfriending.  You should try it.  

 

After unfriending the pyramid scheme dopes, the idiots who hyperventilate over politics every day, and the people who constantly post pictures of their dog or cat, or other uninteresting minutia, all I had left was ads.  It was an improvement.

[Gugny]

On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 2:42 PM, Chef Jim said:

 

There is this really cool feature on FB called unfriending.  You should try it.  

 

I use "unfollow," pretty frequently.  I don't unfriend many.

[row_33]

27 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

 

After unfriending the pyramid scheme dopes, the idiots who hyperventilate over politics every day, and the people who constantly post pictures of their dog or cat, or other uninteresting minutia, all I had left was ads.  It was an improvement.

 

The cat people are the good ones of that crew, not as recklessly active, mind you.

 

[Chef Jim]

On 12/28/2018 at 7:44 AM, Gugny said:

 

I use "unfollow," pretty frequently.  I don't unfriend many.

 

I don’t think I’ve unfriended anyone either now that I think about it. Unfollow?  Many. 

[LabattBlue]

The wife of someone I friended on Facebook is into the "BeachBody" pyramid scheme.  She tags him on all her BeachBody posts, so I constantly see them.  If you are not familiar with it, just google "BeachBody Scam".

 

Yet here she is touting it as the greatest thing ever.

 

People are gullible.

[row_33]

usually, the definition is that Pyramids have no product at all

 

basically handing envelopes of cash around

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

15 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

The wife of someone I friended on Facebook is into the "BeachBody" pyramid scheme.  She tags him on all her BeachBody posts, so I constantly see them.  If you are not familiar with it, just google "BeachBody Scam".

 

Yet here she is touting it as the greatest thing ever.

 

People are gullible.

Ain't that the truth.  The check is in the mail.  Boy, the mail from Mexico City is really slow these days.  I give it another week, that's what the "Big Guy" says... In the mean time, we should just pony up our own money.  We'll get paid back... We really will!

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

22 hours ago, row_33 said:

usually, the definition is that Pyramids have no product at all

 

basically handing envelopes of cash around

 

 

The products are what make them legally legitimate. The one I spoke about earlier the product was a discount club. Nothing you can't get from AAA, AARP, or even a decent google serach. Yet a two year membership cost $800, and a lifetime was like $2000. 

 

There are a few MLM companies that are legitimate. The way to tell is whether they promote recruiting over the value of the product itself. 

[row_33]

17 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

The products are what make them legally legitimate. The one I spoke about earlier the product was a discount club. Nothing you can't get from AAA, AARP, or even a decent google serach. Yet a two year membership cost $800, and a lifetime was like $2000. 

 

There are a few MLM companies that are legitimate. The way to tell is whether they promote recruiting over the value of the product itself. 

 

they are legit if they can withstand the scrutiny of some wonderful reps from tax agencies, or the approval of a body that overrides them... 

 

i have done expert witness accounting reports both prosecuting and defending pyramids/ponzis/whatever.... it's complicated

 

if a product is tangible or there is a real financial instrument it isn't a pyramid scheme officially, we can call it whatever we like otherwise.

 

we cannot save people from greed and stupidity, a judge declaring FRAUD is another standard... buyer beware...