dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: If Barnwell had gone back and looked at his first couple games and then compared them to the last two his article would have, or should have, read differently. Allen is a work in progress, and some of what he says is valid. Like better decision making. But to say he's worse version than Taylor? Silly. Taylor's issue is he wouldn't try to let his receivers makes plays, and Allen's is that at times he's too aggressive. I said it when Taylor got traded and Allen started playing: the same people that were critical of Taylor for not taking chances and throwing the occasional pick will be the same ones criticizing Allen for taking a chance and throwing a pick. And here we are. It's also a bit silly to give Darnold a pass for his O line and not mention it with the Allen critique. It's also a bit silly to just critique and not mention some of the really good throws he's made like some to Foster. One last thing. Clay has to catch that pass. He gets two hands on it in the end zone, he has to catch that pass. Plus what ever happened to the diea of working back to your QB when he's in trouble? Just to play devil's advocate (I've said too much already), working back to someone like Allen given his arm strength is not always the best choice. We're not talking about an arm like Matt Ryan's here. He overthrows people a LOT. I wouldn't blame Clay for that. He was wide open in the middle of the EZ and Allen missed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Exaggeration is a weapon of the weak, and I advise against it. I disagree with you, that's all. Are you suggesting that it was a remotely accurate pass? it was accurate enough that probably 80% of WIDE OPEN NFL RECEIVERS would have made it. But, Clay is not NFL-caliber. Not as a receiver anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: Exaggeration is a weapon of the weak, and I advise against it. I disagree with you, that's all. Are you suggesting that it was a remotely accurate pass? Interesting statement coming from someone who claims that clay would have needed to make a circus catch. The pass was accurate enough and should have been caught. Could the pass have been better? Sure, and I dont think anyone is disputing that 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: You just had to make me go and look.... The quote is: "I've been watching these quarterbacks all year, but in writing this, I rewatched each of their past two starts closely to get a sense of how they're progressing." From that, I think my criticism is fair. Your characterization is not unreasonable. All the same, if the point is to analyze how they are "progressing" I don't think it is fair to do that based on the last two games with only a cursory analysis of the first several games. That is a fair point, although I'd counter that slightly by saying that his best game by far in every area was against Minnesota. It was also on the road and against an upper tier defense too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 52 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: Nobody knows if Allen is going to be a franchise QB. On the one hand, anyone who says he's so bad that it's just not going to happen is either delusional or just not watching. Allen has proven his ability to make big time NFL throws. The question is: can he do it consistently? And that depends on his biomechanics, ability to read defenses & find receivers, the talent around him, and all that. NFL QBs sometimes get better and sometimes they don't. There's no foolproof way of prognosticating this. On the other hand, those who think it's certain that Allen will be franchise QB are also delusional. There's just no guarantee. In the end, one camp will be proven right and we'll hear the gloating told-you-so's. But any certainty at either end of the spectrum at this point is misguided. As I fan I see positive signs. I see why Beane drafted the kid and hope for the best. I don't care at all what Barnwell thinks or writes. Best post I've seen on the subject. I was in the Allen is a sure bust camp, but his play has moved me to CAUTIOUSLY optimistic. I don't know if he's ever going to live up to his talent, but he's certainly not going to be a Jake Locker like bust. The kid is too talented and works too hard. He's going to be here for awhile. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Bray Wyatt said: Interesting statement coming from someone who claims that clay would have needed to make a circus catch. The pass was accurate enough and should have been caught. Could the pass have been better? Sure, and I dont think anyone is disputing that I strongly disagree that it was accurate enough given where Clay was in the EZ (right where he should have been given the QB's arm strength; plus he was wide open), where it landed, and the rotation of the pass. (I've said so much about this that I worry that it'll be written on my tombstone!) Look: he missed two wide open receivers in the end zone that game. Did they lose because of that? No, but the opposing QB made three accurate throws to the EZ on his three tries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: I strongly disagree that it was accurate enough given where Clay was in the EZ (right where he should have been given the QB's arm strength; plus he was wide open), where it landed, and the rotation of the pass. (I've said so much about this that I worry that it'll be written on my tombstone!) Look: he missed two wide open receivers in the end zone that game. Did they lose because of that? No, but the opposing QB made three accurate throws to the EZ on his three tries. Where did the pass hit Clay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: Best post I've seen on the subject. I was in the Allen is a sure bust camp, but his play has moved me to CAUTIOUSLY optimistic. I don't know if he's ever going to live up to his talent, but he's certainly not going to be a Jake Locker like bust. The kid is too talented and works too hard. He's going to be here for awhile. I agree with this 100 percent. The worst case scenario isn't Locker but (at least in terms of production) Jeff George - who actually had some very good seasons. Allen has a better attitude, of course. What I'm saying is that talent will get him places that guys like Locker and David Carr couldn't get to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Yes, Mr. Barnwell, I agree. Instead of making huge yardage and risk getting tackled, Allen should just stay put in the pocket and get smashed by DEs and DTs because the OL sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 28 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Why is it biased opinion and why are the arguments bad? Is Josh Allen better than what the performance output says he is so far? Don't get me wrong - I like him and think the sky is the limit. But he's simply not accurate enough at present (watch other good qbs and you'll see what I mean), and if he doesn't fix that, he's going to struggle to succeed. I can't believe people don't see this. Only Bills homer fans would zero in on Charles Clay alone for that throw-and-catch failure at the end of the Miami game. It was a straight-up inaccurate wounded duck rotating like a helicopter. Your posts are generally cogent, but I think you are the one who is being unduly reactive here. I didn't actually make any claim about Allen. I think Barnwell's judgment, especially in the context of his overall evaluation of the rookie qbs, demonstrates an agenda. He's simply not just and balanced in his interpretation. I don't believe he's applying the same criteria to all the qbs. I do think Allen has a good chance to be very good. He needs to develop and correct numerous mistakes. One can disagree with Barnwell, be optimistic about Josh Allen, and also see he is a raw rookie whose potential is yet to be realized. If the offensive personnel is upgraded, I believe he likely succeeds. Belief, of course, is not certitude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said: Where did the pass hit Clay? In his arm feet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Just now, Bray Wyatt said: Where did the pass hit Clay? I've had this argument before. Just because a pass hits a receiver in the hands doesn't mean it's very catchable. There was a knock-down drag-out argument years back when a Taylor pass sailed off the top of Watkins' fingertips when the Bills were down by one score against the Pats and on their last possession, and the tendency was to blame Watkins because "it hit him in the hands." It was essentially uncatchable, however, and an errant throw. I will agree that Antonio Brown makes that catch. Clay is a serviceable TE -- not horrible by any stretch -- but he's not on this team to make catches like that. Hardly any TEs in the NFL make that catch given the starting point that Clay was at. Just now, Dr. Who said: Your posts are generally cogent, but I think you are the one who is being unduly reactive here. I didn't actually make any claim about Allen. I think Barnwell's judgment, especially in the context of his overall evaluation of the rookie qbs, demonstrates an agenda. He's simply not just and balanced in his interpretation. I don't believe he's applying the same criteria to all the qbs. I do think Allen has a good chance to be very good. He needs to develop and correct numerous mistakes. One can disagree with Barnwell, be optimistic about Josh Allen, and also see he is a raw rookie whose potential is yet to be realized. If the offensive personnel is upgraded, I believe he likely succeeds. Belief, of course, is not certitude. I like Barnwell but don't always agree with him. I have a higher opinion of Allen than he does, but I see where he's coming from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in NoCal Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 56 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: This is hilarious and it’s why our country is so divided. If someone doesn’t have the opinion I have, they are wrong!!!! there is plenty of stuff he writes I don’t agree with but he makes good uses of analytics and always has decent reasoning for his points. But to think everyone who doesn’t say Allen or the Bills are awesome is out to get us makes us look a bit crazy. Allen has some work to do. It’s also funny that you ignore him posting clips of Allen embarrassing Kiko or stating that he doesn’t have good receivers. Stop being so sensitive. I am not here to argue with you or anyone else, because I believe it serves no purpose. I truly do feel that you are crusading somewhat; masquerading under the claim of objectivity. No further comment from this quarter, please consider what I have said. ( And I totally agree that Allen has some work to do.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Exaggeration is a weapon of the weak, and I advise against it. Agree. It’s why you should refrain from calling a wide open bum who can’t track a ball a circus catch 10 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: it was accurate enough that probably 80% of WIDE OPEN NFL RECEIVERS would have made it. But, Clay is not NFL-caliber. Not as a receiver anyway. 97% whose the last one to make a drop like that ? Stevie Johnson ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjv001 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I don't begrudge any sports writer making a living by analyzing players and offering their opinion. But this so-called football expert analysis of Allen borders on Fake News. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I dont care if he has a poor opinion of Allen. That's fine. But really, comparing him to Tyrod Taylor? Is every mobile QB Tyrod Taylor? That take is so lazy. They play completely different styles of QB. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: I dont care if he has a poor opinion of Allen. That's fine. But really, comparing him to Tyrod Taylor? Is every mobile QB Tyrod Taylor? That take is so lazy. They play completely different styles of QB. Hes a cot guy just like circus catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: I dont care if he has a poor opinion of Allen. That's fine. But really, comparing him to Tyrod Taylor? Is every mobile QB Tyrod Taylor? That take is so lazy. They play completely different styles of QB. I think, and I could be wrong here, that he's probably comparing Allen to Tyrod because Allen is replacing Tyrod. The fact that he happens to be running more often than Tyrod ever did only makes the comparison more obvious. There aren't many QBs in the league that run a significant enough amount to really compare Allen to and it just so happens that one of them is the guy that he's replaced. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bob in NoCal said: I am not here to argue with you or anyone else, because I believe it serves no purpose. I truly do feel that you are crusading somewhat; masquerading under the claim of objectivity. No further comment from this quarter, please consider what I have said. ( And I totally agree that Allen has some work to do.) He is not doing any of that. He is being reasonable. Which irritates the fanboys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 His criticisms of Allen did not bother me. What did bother me was he compares the Bills QB with last years QB (Taylor) , but yet doesn't compare any of the other QB to any teams former QB. Heck Taylor is still on the Browns and he didn't compare Mayfield to him? He doesn't compare Jackson to Flacco, Darnold to McCown, or Rosen to Bradford. What is the fascination with media members wanting the Bills to retain Taylor? Do they want us to always be bad and never improve? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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