WHY is Allen really starting?

[Thurman#1]

18 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The HC says he's the starter.  Starters start.  Unless they're hurt.  Simple.

 

 

Or unless the coach changes his mind, which he has already done this year, arguably two or three times. Simple indeed.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Thurman#1

[BillsFan17]

Just now, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Win loss records are team stats, not QB stats. Yes the Giants went 11-5 in Eli's second season. They didn't do it because of Eli. Eli's passer rating that year was 75.9, 26th in the league that year. And he absolutely did NOT go on and have similar stats for the rest of his career. If he had, he wouldn't have had the career he has had or anything close to it.

 

There were still huge arguments about whether Eli would ever be a franchise guy in his fourth year. Then the light came on in the last few games of the season.

 

But thanks for making me go back and look the stats over. You're right, I made a mistake. It was his fourth year, not his fifth that the light came on during. My mistake. Sorry. 

 

But in those first four years his total four year passer rating was 73.4. And he absolutely did NOT have similar stats the rest of his career.

 

 

 

 

Yes he did have very similar stats the rest of his career. There was very little difference between year two and year ten.

 

The Giants were not wondering about Eli at all until his fourth season. They knew what they had in his sophomore year.

[Thurman#1]

16 minutes ago, mattynh said:

This year is all about developing Allen and everything else is secondary.

 

Because he is the young talented guy the Bills need to develop.  They pushed all their chips in on Allen so he gets to play and hopefully improve.  I suppose people think Barkley should start because he had a decent game and I guess if they were trying to win at all costs he might be considered.  But this team is building for the future not for week 11 against the Jags.

 

 

There are a lot of ways to improve. Being on the bench and watching is one of them.

 

Probably the four best QBs in the league sat their first years or more, in Rodgers, Mahomes, Brees and Brady.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Or unless the coach changes his mind, which he has already done this year, arguably two or three times. Simple indeed.

Perhaps you missed the part about unless a guy gets hurt.  Only time he changed other than that was Peterman.

News flash:  just because you think you're the smartest kid in the room does not mean you're the smartest kid in the room.

[Thurman#1]

1 minute ago, BillsFan17 said:

Yes he did have very similar stats the rest of his career. There was very little difference between year two and year ten.

 

The Giants were not wondering about Eli at all until his fourth season. They knew what they had in his sophomore year.

 

 

That's an utterly stupid argument. Utterly dumb.

 

His first four years his passer rating was 73.4. His career rating is more than ten points higher than that. If he'd had this same stats the rest of his career ... why am I bothering? Stupid argument on the face of it.

[HansLanda]

I get the point of getting Allen live reps, but is he really going to be wearing the bionic arm brace during the game? Everyone knows the risk of a full blown UCL injury, right? 

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Perhaps you missed the part about unless a guy gets hurt.  Only time he changed other than that was Peterman.

News flash:  just because you think you're the smartest kid in the room does not mean you're the smartest kid in the room.

 

 

Oh, you think I'm smart? Very kind of you. I wouldn't say I'm all that smart, personally, but whatever you think.

 

And unless you can find somewhere before the last couple of games where McDermott flat-out declared him the starter, than it is very arguable that he changed his mind. I don't know when he first said that, personally, which is why I said it was arguable rather than saying it was factual.

 

But you're getting off-point. All that has to happen for him NOT to be the starter is for McDermott to decide that. And even if he didn't change his mind more than once so far this year, he's a guy who has a history of changing his mind on the starter in just his two years here. It could happen.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Matt_In_NH]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

There is no tried and true method to bringing along a QB. If there was, every team would follow the same model. 

 

Therefore, by saying playing is the absolute best way to develop Allen is not a fair statement.

 

The Bills have an entire offense to evaluate going into this off season. I'd rather have a QB who can do what Barkley did and give our playmakers a chance to do just that, make plays. 

 

Moreover, Barkley forced the Jets to stay honest and allowed for the run game to open up. Also, the ability to drift in the pocket and read a defense which in turn helps the offensive line.

 

There is more to Barkley starting than just trying to win games, it will help evaluate other players on the offense.

 

I did not say that, all I am saying is that is clearly what the Bills have decided.  I agree, if the best thing for him to do is sit and watch they should do that.  

[Thurman#1]

2 minutes ago, mattynh said:

 

I did not say that, all I am saying is that is clearly what the Bills have decided.  I agree, if the best thing for him to do is sit and watch they should do that.  

 

 

Fair enough, IMHO.

 

Totally agree with you that developing him is the most important thing they'll do (or not do) this year, and most important by a very long margin.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Matt_In_NH]

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

There are a lot of ways to improve. Being on the bench and watching is one of them.

 

Probably the four best QBs in the league sat their first years or more, in Rodgers, Mahomes, Brees and Brady.

 

There are lots of examples of guys who played as rookies too though.  Goff, Wentz, Newton, Trubisky, Rivers, Ryan, Roethlisburger, Luck.  

 

If the best thing for his development is to sit, then they should do that.  All I am saying is his development is the number one priority, whatever that is.  The Bills have decided that means he needs to play.

[Mat68]

On 11/15/2018 at 8:07 AM, SoCal Deek said:

My answer to the question? Allen shouldn’t be starting against Jacksonville. I would  start Barkley and see how it goes. Putting Allen back out there looks to me like the Coaching Staff doesn’t want to embarrassed by Barkley doing well again and then having to answer questions about their early and offseason decisions.

What advantage does Barkley have at Quarterback over Allen?  None.  Who is the more talented player?  Allen.  Allen gives the 2018 Buffalo Bill's the best chance at winning.  Getting Allen on the field for development is important but when he is the best player as well, not playing him is lunacy.  Do different than the Peterman dumpster fire over the summer.  Play the more talented guy.  Period.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Mat68

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

20 minutes ago, HansLanda said:

I get the point of getting Allen live reps, but is he really going to be wearing the bionic arm brace during the game? Everyone knows the risk of a full blown UCL injury, right? 

I want my scalp Hans

[Chicken Boo]

On 11/14/2018 at 9:59 PM, matter2003 said:

Because starting Anderson or Barkley does nothing for our future

 

I disagree.  I understand wanting to see Allen play, but he's not ready. 

 

Outside of the roster not being up to par, I'm a strong believer that QBs benefit from sitting and learning.

 

If Allen goes out, gets his ass kicked by Jacksonville and throws 3 picks, then what?  Bench him or continue to possibly destroy his confidence?

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

On 11/14/2018 at 9:57 PM, PUNT750 said:

I feel the Bills are doing the right thing in starting Allen for the balance of the season. It really isn't an NFL learning experience for him - rather a gut check for the Bills HC and GM.

IF he doesn't show an awareness for the game, a quick release or can't MANAGE the game he's not our man. We've been through this before with Johnson, Losman and EJ. Great talent but not winners in the NFL.

I hope he's "the man" and he's getting his chance!

 

This philosophy would have caused the Rams to move on from Goff. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Chicken Boo said:

 

I disagree.  I understand wanting to see Allen play, but he's not ready. 

 

Outside of the roster not being up to par, I'm a strong believer that QBs benefit from sitting and learning.

 

If Allen goes out, gets his ass kicked by Jacksonville and throws 3 picks, then what?  Bench him or continue to possibly destroy his confidence?

 

Keep playing him and let him learn much in the same way Goff and Trubisky did in their respective rookie campaigns.  Stop acting as if Allen is mentally fragile when there is no evidence to suggest that.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I disagree.  I understand wanting to see Allen play, but he's not ready. 

 

Outside of the roster not being up to par, I'm a strong believer that QBs benefit from sitting and learning.

 

If Allen goes out, gets his ass kicked by Jacksonville and throws 3 picks, then what?  Bench him or continue to possibly destroy his confidence?

 

You would think that what Mahomes is doing would push this debate in favor of sitting rookie QBs for a year. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You would think that what Mahomes is doing would push this debate in favor of sitting rookie QBs for a year. 

 

Mahomes had Alex Smith ahead of him on a playoff bound KC team.  The Bills are in a completely different situation. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Mahomes had Alex Smith ahead of him on a playoff bound KC team.  The Bills are in a completely different situation. 

 

Very true.  But at the end of the day the most important question is "how do we get the most out of Allen moving forward."  Just like Mahomes, you get the most out of Allen by sitting him his rookie year. 

[SoCal Deek]

You play the guy who gives you the best chance at winning. ALWAYS. The question is which QB is that this given Sunday.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

You play the guy who gives you the best chance at winning. ALWAYS. The question is which QB is that this given Sunday.

 

That's sort of like the "best player available" draft mantra.  Sure, that's what everyone says, but that's not really what any team is doing.  There are other considerations that need to be made. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Very true.  But at the end of the day the most important question is "how do we get the most out of Allen moving forward."  Just like Mahomes, you get the most out of Allen by sitting him his rookie year. 

 

Learn by doing. See Wentz, Trubisky,  Goff, as well as the other 1st round rookie QBs in the 2018 class. 

[Chicken Boo]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Keep playing him and let him learn much in the same way Goff and Trubisky did in their respective rookie campaigns.  Stop acting as if Allen is mentally fragile when there is no evidence to suggest that.

 

Ok then.  Let's keep trotting out our raw, inaccurate QB, with a porous o-line and sub par receivers.  What could go wrong?

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That's sort of like the "best player available" draft mantra.  Sure, that's what everyone says, but that's not really what any team is doing.  There are other considerations that need to be made. 

You and I disagree. And in my opinion it’s the exact opposite of the BPA philosophy on draft day.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Learn by doing. See Wentz, Trubisky,  Goff, as well as the other 1st round rookie QBs in the 2018 class. 

 

Yeah, but those were the "NFL ready" guys.  Allen is not one of those guys.  He is in the mold of Mahomes, "raw but talented" 

Edited November 20, 2018 by JoshAllenHasBigHands

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Yeah, but those were the "QB ready" guys.  Allen is not one of those guys.  He is in the mold of Mahomes, "raw but talented" 

 

Game experience will do him well to shorten his learning curve along with the other young players who are getting playing time this season as the team focuses on 2019 and beyond.   The youth movement is underway and there's no sense in waiting until next season for Allen to get on the field.  He'll play as long as he remains healthy.

[Chicken Boo]

12 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Learn by doing. See Wentz, Trubisky,  Goff, as well as the other 1st round rookie QBs in the 2018 class. 

 

The Bills roster is a far cry from what Wentz had in Philly. Goff didn't play until week 11 of his rookie season and Trubisky didn't play until week 5, I believe, and both QBs are more fundamentally sound Allen.

 

It's not the same.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

The Bills roster is a far cry from what Wentz had in Philly. Goff didn't play until week 11 of his rookie season and Trubisky didn't play until week 5, I believe, and both QBs are more fundamentally sound Allen.

 

It's not the same

 

No situation is exactly the same, but all of them were on mediocre to bad teams. Allen has missed 4 games that allowed him to watch and learn. Now it's time to get back on the horse and that's what he'll do starting this Sunday.

[KW95 - JA17]

On 11/15/2018 at 6:29 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

"Winning now" 

 

The disease that kept the Bills out of the playoffs for 17 straight years.

 

Who gives us the best chance to scrape to 9-7 is not the way we need to think. This needs to be Josh Allen's job until it is clear he is not the guy. Whether that is sometime in 2019 or whether it is sometime in 2035 after a couple of Superbowl wins. 

 

Tanking keeps working for Browns, Bengals, Jets and many more!

[teef]

6 minutes ago, KW95 said:

 

Tanking keeps working for Browns, Bengals, Jets and many more!

tanking is what you got out of that post?

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, KW95 said:

 

Tanking keeps working for Browns, Bengals, Jets and many more!

 

I am not advocating tanking. What I am advocating is letting Josh Allen play and learn and see what we have there rather than the "but this vet gives us the best chance to win this Sunday." So many times in the last two decades we have started people who were in no way going to be the answer because they gave us the best chance to eek out a 9-7 and a playoff berth. It resulted in three 9-7s, one 8-8 and a lot of losing seasons and only one post season game. 

 

Maybe Matt Barkley gives us a slightly better chance to win this week than Josh Allen. Maybe starting him the rest of the way gives us a better chance of getting to 6-10 or 7-9.... but it does nothing for the long term.

 

I am not saying try and lose - I am absolutely okay with winning the final 6 games in a row and getting another 9-7 if we do that with Josh Allen at Quarterback, because that gives us something tangiable for 2019 and beyond. 

 

[cd1]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:43 AM, Sweats said:

I say we throw Allen to the wolves and he either figures it out or he doesn’t.......sink or swim.

 

AGREE - If he drowns, he is not a witch Quarterback... or something like that ?