Brandon Beane Won't Rule Out Allen Missing the Rest of the Season; Not Actively Shopping Any Players Ahead of the Trade Deadline

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The counter argument is Mahomes who sat almost an entire year without game action.

 

 

See above.  Silly argument.

 

Why would he see game action unless their Pro Bowl QB was injured?  If there was no Smith, Mahomes would have been the day 1 starter.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

See above.  Silly argument.

 

Why would he see game action unless their Pro Bowl QB was injured?  If there was no Smith, Mahomes would have been the day 1 starter.

 

It's a fact regardless of circumstances. He sat and your attempt to explain it away is what's silly.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It's a fact regardless of circumstances. He sat and your attempt to explain it away is what's silly.

 

Yes but the argument is being made that Allen should have sat this year, despite there being no viable alternative at QB.  That's not the history of first round top drafted QBs in the NFL.  The majority of them are starters in their first year.  They "learned" by playing.  Barring injury, that's how Allen should be used as well. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

Yes but the argument is being made that Allen should have sat this year, despite there being no viable alternative at QB.  That's not the history of first round top drafted QBs in the NFL.  The majority of them are starters in their first year.  They "learned" by playing.  Barring injury, that's how Allen should be used as well. 

 

With a decent veteran in place he very well could have. With Nathan Peterman to start the season, NFW!

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

With a decent veteran in place he very well could have. With Nathan Peterman to start the season, NFW!

 

 

Again, the vast majority of these guys are drafted for necessity and therefore start out of necessity.  There is no decent vet, so they start and take their lumps.  It may be OK, it may be ugly, but it's experience they can't get checking boxes on a clipboard listening to the headset while the scrub starter gets hammered.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

Again, the vast majority of these guys are drafted for necessity and therefore start out of necessity.  There is no decent vet, so they start and take their lumps.  It may be OK, it may be ugly, but it's experience they can't get checking boxes on a clipboard listening to the headset while the scrub starter gets hammered.

 

You better get down to OBD and get things in order.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You better get down to OBD and get things in order.

 

I'm starting up my Taurus!

[apuszczalowski]

23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This topic has been explained to death in countless other threads. 

 

All 4 rookie QBs from the 1st round have started games in their rookie year.  They were drafted A): because their teams had bad records, B) because their team didn't have an entrenched starter.

 

They absolutely get "thrown to the wolves", unless their team has a Brett Favre or an Alex Smith or a Drew Brees or even a Jay Cutler already on the roster.  That's how the NFL does this.  Not sure why this is hard to figure out.

see my post above.

But that doesnt explain or answer what I said. WHO SAYS THEY CANT OR DONT LEARN BY SITTING BEHIND SOMEONE? Many young QBs are forced into action early or right away, but how many of them succeed or get better? The Jets kept McCown around to start until Darnold looked capable in Training Camp, the Cardinals and Browns both brought in guys to start and let their rookies sit on the bench to watch and develop.

[GG]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

No I don't think it's odd.  He's week to week.  That means there's uncertainty when he returns.  I suspect they'll be careful bringing him back before he's ready.

 

I think you're reading too much into this.

 

Who do you think is closer to the situation - the team's GM or a Twitter MD who's never examined the player?

[BillsMafia13]

24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

See above.  Silly argument.

 

Why would he see game action unless their Pro Bowl QB was injured?  If there was no Smith, Mahomes would have been the day 1 starter.

That doesnt make sense, Mahomes is an MVP candidate.  Pretty sure MVP>All Star.  If he was this amazing last here he would have usurped Smith.  Boom case closed

[apuszczalowski]

24 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

See above.  Silly argument.

 

Why would he see game action unless their Pro Bowl QB was injured?  If there was no Smith, Mahomes would have been the day 1 starter.

And who says that if he did start he would be blowing away the league right now?

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

But that doesnt explain or answer what I said. WHO SAYS THEY CANT OR DONT LEARN BY SITTING BEHIND SOMEONE? Many young QBs are forced into action early or right away, but how many of them succeed or get better? The Jets kept McCown around to start until Darnold looked capable in Training Camp, the Cardinals and Browns both brought in guys to start and let their rookies sit on the bench to watch and develop.

 

Sam Darnold was a day 1 starter, so obviously he didn't sit and learn behind anyone.

 

The Browns realized quickly that they couldn't let their number 1 pick "sit and learn from the bench".  He was the starter by week 3.  Rosen by week 4.

 

So, none of them likely learned much  in the couple of games they sat.  And we are talking about having them sit for a YEAR.

6 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said:

That doesnt make sense, Mahomes is an MVP candidate.  Pretty sure MVP>All Star.  If he was this amazing last here he would have usurped Smith.  Boom case closed

 

 

He was never going to "usurp" a Pro Bowl QB.  That makes no sense.  There wasn't a "QB competition". 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[Cheektowaga Chad]

I don't believe a word beane said. However if true its concerning because A. The injury is serious or B. They're in job survival mode and the excuses are starting.

 

[dakrider]

If Allen doesn't start after the bye week on Nov 25, which is almost 4 weeks from now, then his injury is worse than their saying. 

The reason sitting and watching before being a starter is valuable due mostly on getting players to prepare for games.  Having Anderson in there now should help in that regard on how to prepare each week.  Playing a few weeks and now getting to watch and see how to prepare for specific defenses will be a huge benefit for Allen.  Looking at each play and studying why did this play work and why did this play fail?  

Right now the only thing I'm worried about is the extent of his injury.  Hopefully a few more weeks he's 100%. 

[apuszczalowski]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Who do you think is closer to the situation - the team's GM or a Twitter MD who's never examined the player?

It wouldn't be the first time the 'Doctors report' immediately following the injury being announced wasnt as accurate as everyone though and a player was out longer.

 

I know it's a different sport, but just go take a look at the Blue Jay's season, Tulowitzki was only supposed to be out a short time after heel surgery in spring training, they are still waiting on him to play his first game, Stroman and Sanchez had multiple times where they were listed as 'day to day' with blisters and missed weeks to months because of it.

 

Those time frames mean nothing except what they can hope for in a best case scenario. In this case, if the GM is saying it's possible he is out all year, theres a very high possibility that it's more likely you dont see him back on the field until next years training camp then he is starting after the bye week....

[Gugny]

14 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Good, shut him down the rest of the season.  Let him learn from the sidelines which was the original plan. Go 3-13 and get him better weapons next year. Upgrade the oline in FA.  If he doesn't improve we'll know a lot more next year.

 

Normally, I'd tend to agree with you on this .... but what could he possibly learn by watching this shitshow they call an offense?

[BillsMafia13]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Sam Darnold was a day 1 starter, so obviously he didn't sit and learn behind anyone.

 

The Browns realized quickly that they couldn't let their number 1 pick "sit and learn from the bench".  He was the starter by week 3.  Rosen by week 4.

 

So, none of them likely learned much  in the couple of games they sat.  And we are talking about having them sit for a YEAR.

 

 

He was never going to "usurp" a Pro Bowl QB.  That makes no sense.

Semantics.  Tell me where me where I start to fall off.  Mahomes did not get great playing behind Smith.  Smith was an All Star but Mahomes is an MVP.  But Mahomes wasnt good enough to over take Smith last year?  Theres a hole in your reasoning here

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said:

Semantics.  Tell me where me where I start to fall off.  Mahomes did not get great playing behind Smith.  Smith was an All Star but Mahomes is an MVP.  But Mahomes wasnt good enough to over take Smith last year?  Theres a hole in your reasoning here

 

So your saying that Mahomes would have been able to "usurp" Smith last year as starter because he is an MVP candidate this year....and that the reason he is an MVP candidate this year is because he sat for a year behind Smith?

 

 If Mahomes was that good last year then it bolsters the argument that sitting isn't beneficial.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

It wouldn't be the first time the 'Doctors report' immediately following the injury being announced wasnt as accurate as everyone though and a player was out longer.

 

I know it's a different sport, but just go take a look at the Blue Jay's season, Tulowitzki was only supposed to be out a short time after heel surgery in spring training, they are still waiting on him to play his first game, Stroman and Sanchez had multiple times where they were listed as 'day to day' with blisters and missed weeks to months because of it.

 

Those time frames mean nothing except what they can hope for in a best case scenario. In this case, if the GM is saying it's possible he is out all year, theres a very high possibility that it's more likely you dont see him back on the field until next years training camp then he is starting after the bye week....

Listen to the interview.  He said I don't know how many times that it's week to week.  He mentioned in passing that he can't guarantee when he'd come back, only that they are going to be careful and be sure he's ready to go.

 

The conspiracy theorists are out in full force today.

[BillsMafia13]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So your saying that Mahomes would have been able to "usurp" Smith last year as starter because he is an MVP candidate this year....and that the reason he is an MVP candidate this year is because he sat for a year behind Smith?

 

That's sound reasoning.

You keep missing the point.  You say Mahomes didnt get great sitting behind Smith, so he must have already been a world beating MVP last year right? If Mahomes was this great last year, he would have over taken Smith.  Im saying he got great because he was allowed to sit and learn from the sidelines.  Get it?

[Chicken Boo]

If he needs surgery, then get him to Dr. James Andrews and call it a day.  Dont wait until the recovery time is spilling into 2019 OTAs and/or training camp.

 

If McBeane botches this, I'm officially done with this regime.

[Not at the table Karlos]

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

New QB's don't learn much from the sidelines.  They are only ever there if there is already an entrenched starter on the roster.

Allen needs to fix his mechanics and that takes a lot of time. Usually don't fix mechanics by playing, especially on this dumpster fire of an offense. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, BillsMafia13 said:

You keep missing the point.  You say Mahomes didnt get great sitting behind Smith, so he must have already been a world beating MVP last year right? If Mahomes was this great last year, he would have over taken Smith.  Im saying he got great because he was allowed to sit and learn from the sidelines.  Get it?

 

This isn't hard.  Mahomes probably would have had a great rookie season on that team because he's obviously a unique talent on a loaded team.  Great situation (and rare).

 

But he was drafted as Smith's ultimate replacement.  You are being disingenuous if you think he was drafted to displace Smith immediately.  There would have been no reason to insert Mahomes (to even see how good he might be).

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

This isn't hard.  Mahomes probably would have had a great rookie season on that team because he's obviously a unique talent on a loaded team.  Great situation (and rare).

 

But he was drafted as Smith's ultimate replacement.  You are being disingenuous if you think he was drafted to displace Smith immediately.  There would have been no reason to insert Mahomes (to even see how good he might be).

 

Mahomes was coached very hard by the KC staff last season while he sat to augment physical techniques and mental processing. He needed refinement before he was ready to be unleashed.   He also benefited from having Alex Smith around to show him the way as Smith knew he'd be gone after the 2017 season. 

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

If he needs surgery, then get him to Dr. James Andrews and call it a day.  Dont wait until the recovery time is spilling into 2019 OTAs and/or training camp.

 

If McBeane botches this, I'm officially done with this regime.

Good God.  He either went to see Andrews or they had Andrews review his MRI etc.  and he said he doesn't need surgery.  Does it absolutely guarantee he may not?  No.  But he was evaluated thoroughly.

 

Enough of the conspiracy theories.

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Mahomes was coached very hard by the KC staff last season while he sat to augment physical techniques and mental processing. He needed refinement before he was ready to be unleashed.   He also benefited from having Alex Smith around to show him the way as Smith knew he'd be gone after the 2017 season. 

 

 

Tell that to billsmafia13

[BillsMafia13]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This isn't hard.  Mahomes probably would have had a great rookie season on that team because he's obviously a unique talent on a loaded team.  Great situation (and rare).

 

But he was drafted as Smith's ultimate replacement.  You are being disingenuous if you think he was drafted to displace Smith immediately.  There would have been no reason to insert Mahomes (to even see how good he might be).

You gotta pick a side man.  If you think he was this good last year he would have started ahead of Smith.  UNLESS he got so great because he sat and learned.  There was no reason up insert Mahomes because he was not better than Smith at that point. Bottom line

[Soda Popinski]

Just hurts his development for next year.   Anyone thinking he's going to come out and put up a 11-5 season in 2019 is in for a disappointment.   At best 2019 will be a 7-9 year.  in 2020 we will know if he's our QB or not. 

[BillsMafia13]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Tell that to billsmafia13

I heard dont worry.  Sure sounds like he said " he sat to refine his throw and mental processing. Also benefited from Alex Smith showing him around" Which sounds a lot like, he sat behind Smith to learn and clean up his game.  You do see you proved my point exactly right?

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, BillsMafia13 said:

You gotta pick a side man.  If you think he was this good last year he would have started ahead of Smith.  UNLESS he got so great because he sat and learned.  There was no reason up insert Mahomes because he was not better than Smith at that point. Bottom line

 

 

How would they know how good he was last year unless they benched Smith.  And why would they bench Smith, who had another Pro Bowl year for Mahomes?  On a hunch?  Because he practiced well?

 

So....even if Mahomes last season was the fully formed Mahomes we see now, we never would have known.  Pretty simple.

[jrober38]

There's a chance Allen needs Tommy John surgery. 

The way he reacted to the test they did pulling his finger on the sideline and how much pain he showed suggested there was major damage to the ligament in his elbow. 

[BillsMafia13]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

How would they know how good he was last year unless they benched Smith.  And why would they bench Smith, who had another Pro Bowl year for Mahomes?  On a hunch?  Because he practiced well?

 

So....even if Mahomes last season was the fully formed Mahomes we see now, we never would have known.  Pretty simple.

Well thats why they are the pinnacle of the coaching world.  Thats why Reid sat him for a year, so he COULD LEARN behind Smith.  If learning from Smith wasnt what made him great,  then what was? You must have a better reason for him catapulting to greatness if it wasnt learning behind Smith. Simple your arguing against yourself, neither are winning. "So even if Mahomes wasnt fully formed" You literally said it yourself

Edited October 30, 2018 by BillsMafia13

[Dr. K]

14 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

I'm worried that elbow is worse than we think

Me too. I'm wondering if it will come to surgery, and a lost 2019 season, too. 

 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Dr. K said:

Me too. I'm wondering if it will come to surgery, and a lost 2019 season, too. 

 

 

My guess is they're waiting a few weeks to see if it begins to heel and responds to treatment, and if it doesn't he's going to need Tommy John and will be lost for 12 months. 

[blacklabel]

On one hand, I think it's important for Allen to get as many reps as possible, but on the other... I can see how they're cautious about putting him back in the lineup with this OL. Don't wanna make the existing injury any worse or create any new ones. But there's really no replacement for on-field experience. And this being a lost season it makes it a good time for Allen to gain experience because there's really no pressure. If he makes a mistake, eh, big deal. Has to make mistakes in order to learn. I'd rather he make those mistakes in a season that's meant for mistakes and gaining experience rather than plug him in next year and expect more wins because (hopefully) they'll have added more pieces to the offense in 2019. 

 

I knew when they labeled it "week to week" it was worse than what they were letting on. Saying it's week to week allows them to avoid being held to a specific time table and if a setback occurs and they have to shut him down for the season, they won't have to face any questions like, "But I thought you said he'd be ready after the bye?" 

 

I dunno... I think if he's 100% recovered from the elbow with a few games left in the season, let him play. Needs the experience. 

[Boatdrinks]

26 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said:

You gotta pick a side man.  If you think he was this good last year he would have started ahead of Smith.  UNLESS he got so great because he sat and learned.  There was no reason up insert Mahomes because he was not better than Smith at that point. Bottom line

The team was winning , and though Smith had his ups and downs Reid wasn’t benching him for a rookie. Smith had earned the benefit of the doubt throughout his time in KC. That’s it. Mahomes probably benefitted somewhat from not having to play at the beginning of the season, but a player doesn’t “ become great “ sitting on the bench. Regardless of who is in front of them. 

[sleeby]

28 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

Just hurts his development for next year.   Anyone thinking he's going to come out and put up a 11-5 season in 2019 is in for a disappointment.   At best 2019 will be a 7-9 year.  in 2020 we will know if he's our QB or not. 

2019 will likely see the youngest offense in the NFL with many rookies as starters.  Hopefully the team developes as the season progresses but 2019 is still process.  It's a fact.

[BillsMafia13]

7 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The team was winning , and though Smith had his ups and downs Reid wasn’t benching him for a rookie. Smith had earned the benefit of the doubt throughout his time in KC. That’s it. Mahomes probably benefitted somewhat from not having to play at the beginning of the season, but a player doesn’t “ become great “ sitting on the bench. Regardless of who is in front of them. 

I agree that doesnt define how great a player will be, but its a gigantic leg up from starting 16 games on this bills offense.  But if Mahomes didnt become so great from learning behind Smith, as in he was already that great they would have started him immediately because Mahomes>Smith.  Reid recognized that, traded up for him, and gave him a year that he needed to develop.  If he was already developed he would not have sat, Reid would have seen that immediately.

[Mr. WEO]

27 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said:

Well thats why they are the pinnacle of the coaching world.  Thats why Reid sat him for a year, so he COULD LEARN behind Smith.  If learning from Smith wasnt what made him great,  then what was? You must have a better reason for him catapulting to greatness if it wasnt learning behind Smith. Simple your arguing against yourself, neither are winning. "So even if Mahomes wasnt fully formed" You literally said it yourself

 

I'll try one more time.  It's possible that Mahomes would have had a great rookie year without "sitting"....because he's a very talented player.  It would hardly be unique for a rookie QB to have a solid rookie season.

 

BUT, since he was on the roster behind behind Smith, we will never know. 

2 minutes ago, BillsMafia13 said:

I agree that doesnt define how great a player will be, but its a gigantic leg up from starting 16 games on this bills offense.  But if Mahomes didnt become so great from learning behind Smith, as in he was already that great they would have started him immediately because Mahomes>Smith.  Reid recognized that, traded up for him, and gave him a year that he needed to develop.  If he was already developed he would not have sat, Reid would have seen that immediately.

 

 

This doesn't make more sense by repeating it.  Boatdrinks already reiterated why Mahomes wasn't going to replace Smith.

[BillsMafia13]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'll try one more time.  It's possible that Mahomes would have had a great rookie year without "sitting"....because he's a very talented player.  It would hardly be unique for a rookie QB to have a solid rookie season.

 

BUT, since he was on the roster behind behind Smith, we will never know. 

 

 

This doesn't make more sense by repeating it.  Boatdrinks already reiterated why Mahomes wasn't going to replace Smith.

Ok so your point is "its possible he would have a great rookie year" but Reid didnt see that even though hes his head coach and traded up for him? Your hypothetical situation seems a lot more flimsy compared to my real life situation, which actually happened. I wont give in to extremes and say its always the case, but to deny Mahomes developed a ton is stubborn.  If he was better he would have started, if something shot him to greatness that isnt sitting behind Smith I welcome your insight.  Otherwise miss me with that woulda, coulda, shoulda non sense