McDermott and Beane ought to feel utter terror about Allen

[Doc]

Just now, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

Are you agreeing with me? I think we're saying the same thing.

 

Why yes, yes I am.  With a good defense and a rookie QB, KISS on offense is the way to go.

[Bill_with_it]

58 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

With Allen looking as bad as he does, even though these two did absolutely nothing offensively to help his cause, McD and Beane must be in panic mode (Derek Anderson, really?). 

 

Not only do you have to rebuild an entire offense but your prized QB is beyond terrible. Maybe if they would have listened to the overwhelming majority of pundits they wouldn't have traded all their draft capital for a guy with suspect accuracy and pocket awareness. Couple this with underachieving at Wyoming and I'm not really sure why he was ever a consideration in the first round to begin with. 

 

If its me..and trust me I know this will not happen.. I am very seriously considering a QB with my top 10 pick next year if there isn't any progression. I know everyone wants to give it time but how often is a QB utterly awful only to turn it around and become great these days (Goff seems to be the exception to the rule - not ready to anoint Trubisky). 

 

So I'd be kicking my self in the rear if I were these guys. I gave up (2) crucial 2nd round picks that could have been used to bolster my roster even further and probably could have done so and skill gotten Josh Rosen had I stayed put. 

 

So go ahead and tell me it's too early. Some of us know when things are going to end poorly (EJ Manuel). My advice to Beane and McD is think long and hard this offseason and don't be blinded by reality...you're jobs may depend on it. 

Inwas waiting for hot takes. This didn’t disappoint. Yikes.

[SinceThe70s]

10 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Agreed that Anderson is better for Allen than NP.  But if you're bringing him in to be the starter?  I want no part of that.  Allen is #1 going forward, unless injured.

 

Yup. I think they brought Anderson in to improve the backup QB position. It's an upgrade to backup QB, nothing more. And a welcome change IMO.

[njbuff]

Name me one QB that would succeed with WR's that get ZERO separation on a regular basis and an OL that gives you 1.5 seconds to throw the ball most of the time.

 

I'm waiting.

 

And Allen is a rookie that has 4+ games under his belt, when the plan was to NOT start him right away.

18 minutes ago, peterpan said:

Yeah I had the same thought.  Ej was bad but he was better than this.  I personally would have no problem taking a QB in the first round if there was a good one.  I'd trade mCcoy for foles and see if he can give me anything.  Gotta find a guy.  And we need.more poles in the water than just allens

 

EJ also had Watkins and Woods that at least got separation.

 

Who on this teams gets separation?

 

This argument is dumb.

 

When the talent around Allen improves and Allen is not good, then complain. Otherwise, to not cut this kid slack is downright stupid.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Why yes, yes I am.  With a good defense and a rookie QB, KISS on offense is the way to go.

 

Ok. I wasn't sure if maybe you interpreted my post wrong, based on your response. 

 

This should be the case in every game. The game plan against GB seemed like the opposite, as if Daboll and the coaches thought it would be a good idea of getting into a shootout with the best QB of all time. Maybe they thought Allen would be riding a wave from the previous week and would surprise, but still, he's a raw rookie. I get mixing it up and all, but the plays that were called in the GB game, especially early on, weren't the best plays to help get a QB into a rhythm and build confidence.

 

Today, we saw the opposite, at least for the first few drives. There were moving pockets and designed quick throws. The one to Clay over the middle, while not incredible by any means, was good to see. 

 

I know we all want to see Allen's uber strong arm open up the deep passing attack, but he's just not there in his development yet. And that's before we talk about the line and his WRs. 

 

Now if the Bills are down by a couple scores later in games, then obviously they'll need to air it out some more. But in games like today, and opponents like them (good defense, so-so offense), the Bills can at least be competetive against them by playing a similar game. Expecting turnovers on defense in order to compete is not smart, but this team is known to have a knack for creating them more often than most teams.

[Freddie's Dead]

26 minutes ago, dezertbill said:

Anderson backed up Newton for seven years.  I didn't see anyone worried about him taking the starting job from Newton.

 

This is purely for mentoring.  If Allen gets hurt, sure, Anderson might get playing time.  But this isn't a situation where if Allen has one bad game he is going to get pulled.  They only thing I would agree with was the Bills should have done this the minute they traded McCarron.  I'm sure this isn't something that just popped on their radar today.  This has been in the works for weeks.  They should have just moved faster on it.  

 

But the point of the OP is how horrible Allen has played and how us moving up in the draft to pick him was a huge mistake, and talking about taking a QB next year.  That's just idiocy at this point in his career.

 

And for those who compare Allen to EJ....there is no comparison.  Orton was brought in after an entire year with Jeff Tuel as EJ's back up.  We are talking 5 games here.  Again, should it have happened sooner?  I would say yes.  But keep in mind we have been having issues at CB depth and we've needed every roster spot ensuring we are covered in that area.

 

 

I hope you're right, and that all this talk about Anderson taking over is BS.

[gobills1212]

1 hour ago, Jpsredemption said:

With Allen looking as bad as he does, even though these two did absolutely nothing offensively to help his cause, McD and Beane must be in panic mode (Derek Anderson, really?). 

 

Not only do you have to rebuild an entire offense but your prized QB is beyond terrible. Maybe if they would have listened to the overwhelming majority of pundits they wouldn't have traded all their draft capital for a guy with suspect accuracy and pocket awareness. Couple this with underachieving at Wyoming and I'm not really sure why he was ever a consideration in the first round to begin with. 

 

If its me..and trust me I know this will not happen.. I am very seriously considering a QB with my top 10 pick next year if there isn't any progression. I know everyone wants to give it time but how often is a QB utterly awful only to turn it around and become great these days (Goff seems to be the exception to the rule - not ready to anoint Trubisky). 

 

So I'd be kicking my self in the rear if I were these guys. I gave up (2) crucial 2nd round picks that could have been used to bolster my roster even further and probably could have done so and skill gotten Josh Rosen had I stayed put. 

 

So go ahead and tell me it's too early. Some of us know when things are going to end poorly (EJ Manuel). My advice to Beane and McD is think long and hard this offseason and don't be blinded by reality...you're jobs may depend on it. 

Do i have to tell you its too early?

Can i just tell you crack is whack?

Edited October 8, 2018 by gobills1212

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

28 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Name me one QB that would succeed with WR's that get ZERO separation on a regular basis and an OL that gives you 1.5 seconds to throw the ball most of the time.

 

I'm waiting.

 

And Allen is a rookie that has 4+ games under his belt, when the plan was to NOT start him right away.

 

EJ also had Watkins and Woods that at least got separation.

 

Who on this teams gets separation?

 

This argument is dumb.

 

When the talent around Allen improves and Allen is not good, then complain. Otherwise, to not cut this kid slack is downright stupid.

 

Let me preface by saying I like Allen as a future QB for this team, and in no way should the Bills burn a high draft pick on a QB next year (especially considering the class).

 

Now, with that said, there IS plenty in Allen's game worth being critical of. There have been quite a few passes where his accuracy has been pretty bad; many passes where the play was there to be made and he simply missed, or where a more accuracte ball would have yielded more YAC. Those don't fall on the WR. He needs to work on his touch passing. A lot of this seems to be caused by poor footwork. Many times he fails to step into his pass and just throws based on sheer arm strength. 

 

I won't dig too deep here; just mentioning that there are issues in his game that need to be worked on and improved upon. But he's a rookie, and we shouldn't expect him to just shake the flaws in his game that we read in the scouting report in 4 games. Even with better WRs and better blocking, we would still see these issue at times, just maybe not quite as frequent. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it's fair to be critical. It's warranted. But do it with the proper perspective. Making final judgements on the kid after 4 games is not "proper". (< not directed at you nj)

15 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I hope you're right, and that all this talk about Anderson taking over is BS.

 

Realize where you are right now, then revisit what you just said...

Edited October 8, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat

[Slack_in_MA]

TL/DR

[Heavy Kevi]

1 hour ago, Jpsredemption said:

With Allen looking as bad as he does, even though these two did absolutely nothing offensively to help his cause, McD and Beane must be in panic mode (Derek Anderson, really?). 

 

Not only do you have to rebuild an entire offense but your prized QB is beyond terrible. Maybe if they would have listened to the overwhelming majority of pundits they wouldn't have traded all their draft capital for a guy with suspect accuracy and pocket awareness. Couple this with underachieving at Wyoming and I'm not really sure why he was ever a consideration in the first round to begin with. 

 

If its me..and trust me I know this will not happen.. I am very seriously considering a QB with my top 10 pick next year if there isn't any progression. I know everyone wants to give it time but how often is a QB utterly awful only to turn it around and become great these days (Goff seems to be the exception to the rule - not ready to anoint Trubisky). 

 

So I'd be kicking my self in the rear if I were these guys. I gave up (2) crucial 2nd round picks that could have been used to bolster my roster even further and probably could have done so and skill gotten Josh Rosen had I stayed put. 

 

So go ahead and tell me it's too early. Some of us know when things are going to end poorly (EJ Manuel). My advice to Beane and McD is think long and hard this offseason and don't be blinded by reality...you're jobs may depend on it. 

 

This is hilarious.

 

Social media has given people a level of self-importance never before seen.

 

Anyhow, just for fun look up Peyton Mannings rookie stats. He turned out to be one of the greatest ever (maybe #1), but his rookie year they went 3-13 with 56%comp and more INTs than TDs.

 

You just don't know if Josh will be good, and the fact that you think you do is kind of funny. It means you think you are smarter than everyone else. Imagine that.

[Freddie's Dead]

3 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

Realize where you are right now, then revisit what you just said...

 

I wasn't referring to the talk on TBD.

[Mat68]

Look at Chicago last year to this year.  I'm surprised it took so long to get here.  Fullback, multiple Te sets and pound the rock.  Buffalo cant win outside consistantly.  The cant get vertical consistently.

[Jpsredemption]

8 minutes ago, Shotgunner said:

 

This is hilarious.

 

Social media has given people a level of self-importance never before seen.

 

Anyhow, just for fun look up Peyton Mannings rookie stats. He turned out to be one of the greatest ever (maybe #1), but his rookie year they went 3-13 with 56%comp and more INTs than TDs.

 

You just don't know if Josh will be good, and the fact that you think you do is kind of funny. It means you think you are smarter than everyone else. Imagine that.

I believe he threw 26 td passes. Think about that...and I have no part in social media so nice miss on you're philosophical injection.

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

Look at Chicago last year to this year.  I'm surprised it took so long to get here.  Fullback, multiple Te sets and pound the rock.  Buffalo cant win outside consistantly.  The cant get vertical consistently.

If only we had a Sean McVay or Matt Nagy to save us.

[Heavy Kevi]

2 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

I believe he threw 26 td passes. Think about that...and I have no part in social media so nice miss on you're philosophical injection.

If only we had a Sean McVay or Matt Nagy to save us.

 

Yup. And 28 INTs

 

I don't consider my social media observation a miss. It's true, though perhaps it does not apply to you.

 

None of that changes the fact that you're OP is rediculous on it's face. You can't know what you claim to know, and you know that, but somehow continue to defend it.

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, Jpsredemption said:

So I'd be kicking my self in the rear if I were these guys. I gave up (2) crucial 2nd round picks that could have been used to bolster my roster even further and probably could have done so and skill gotten Josh Rosen had I stayed put. 

I liked Allen's last drive.. recievers let him down again. He's improving and shows he has talent.

 

But I hate self policing wannabe mods.. Mahomes is the MVP quarterback as of now. Rosen looks as advertised when he was the runaway #1 overall pick in March. We CAN be critical of the regime and not cry to the mods when someone makes a hot take OP.

2 hours ago, Doc said:

I think this is starting to enter the crusade territory, which is a TOS violation.  I’d watch yourself OP. 

You're having a mod crusade Doc. I like your posts but I don't like crying to the mods when you disagree. The team is an emotional rollercoaster and the forum is a rollercoaster.. let the free speech ride brutha!

[Jpsredemption]

5 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I liked Allen's last drive.. recievers let him down again. He's improving and shows he has talent.

 

But I hate self policing wannabe mods.. Mahomes is the MVP quarterback as of now. Rosen looks as advertised when he was the runaway #1 overall pick in March. We CAN be critical of the regime and not cry to the mods when someone makes a hot take OP.

You're having a mod crusade Doc. I like your posts but I don't like crying to the mods when you disagree. The team is an emotional rollercoaster and the forum is a rollercoaster.. let the free speech ride brutha!

This is not a crusade. It's not like criticizing Allen is some radical concept. If we had Aaron Rodgers and I was spouting off constantly about how awful he was then that's crusade territory.

 

Dissent is a good thing. We can't lose sight of that.

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, Jpsredemption said:

Dissent is a good thing. We can't lose sight of that.

Totally understand that. Don't understand why people want to enforce mob mentality.

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

kicking my self in the rear

 

No need. 

 

There's plenty of other people willing to do that for you....

[NoHuddleKelly12]

6 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

This is not a crusade. It's not like criticizing Allen is some radical concept. If we had Aaron Rodgers and I was spouting off constantly about how awful he was then that's crusade territory.

 

Dissent is a good thing. We can't lose sight of that.

I don’t disagree with your take on dissent—you have a right to your opinion. But don’t be surprised if it gets deconstructed by a lot of others on TBD because the fact is your sample size is way too small, and there is too much in the way of good signs along the way to support your ultimate conclusion. It’s a mixed bag, and that is exactly what a lot of us felt like would happen, especially when he wasn’t even supposed to start this early this year. I’m not anywhere close to burning his jersey, and I hope for your sake of fan enjoyment that you can enjoy the good along the way as it comes too.

[Bing Bong]

6 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I don’t disagree with your take on dissent—you have a right to your opinion. But don’t be surprised if it gets deconstructed by a lot of others on TBD because the fact is your sample size is way too small, and there is too much in the way of good signs along the way to support your ultimate conclusion. It’s a mixed bag, and that is exactly what a lot of us felt like would happen, especially when he wasn’t even supposed to start this early this year. I’m not anywhere close to burning his jersey, and I hope for your sake of fan enjoyment that you can enjoy the good along the way as it comes too.

I'm talking more about people crying to the mods a thread gets taken down. He should expect deconstruction, not crying to the mods about an opinion that is disagreeable.