Nobody should be doubting Beane or McDermott

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, SoCoBills said:

 

Thats a Tyrod Taylor led offense for you. Like I said earlier - with that stellar defense if the Browns trot out Mayfield and he’s even half decent they will win a lot of games this year. Also - let’s not act like they didn’t earn those turnovers with Denzel Ward and Myles Garret both looking like super stars and let’s also not pretend that the Steelers aren’t one of the top teams in the AFC that they just went toe to toe with.

I like the Browns and hope they win 8 games. They won't, though; Cincy, Baltimore, and Pitt are a lot better than them. They will win a couple-few games, however. 

 

Moreover, Tyrod didn't miss a 42 yd fg that would have ended the game. That's the Browns for you.

Edited September 11, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Jobot]

So what's the defenses excuse??

 

[apuszczalowski]

I am not as down on both of those guys as many here, but what have they done so far to deserve having none of their moves or decisions doubted? They have sold off all the talent on this team for picks and freed up future cap space for hopefully some upgrades. Although many have said the FA market in areas of needs look slim. They drafted a very young LBer with a high ceiling but needing development and a QB with a high ceiling but needing alot of development to be the future. They have no current plan for the QB position aside from a 5th round QB who's been a dumpster fire so far, no wide receivers, failed to address the oline after losing a big chunk of it, and put more resources into the defence without really getting g much better results. Plus they are already on another OC.

[SoCoBills]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I like the Browns and hope they win 8 games. They won't, though; Cincy, Baltimore, and Pitt are a lot better than them. They will win a couple-few games, however. 

 

That division is brutal. 

[Peter]

48 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

 

cordy glenn was hurt more than not

dick incognito lost his mind

seantrel Henderson was trash even when he wasn’t suspended or hurt (as he is again)

 

35 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Peter respectufully

 

Glenn had a lower body injury and you know as well as i do that is not a good sign for a line player.....I liked Cordy when healthy to

Richie....feel like we got out of that disaster at just the right time...would you not agree?

Henderson....another player with health issues that frankly was not that good when he WAS healthy

 

 

Cordy Glenn is starting for the Bengals. He played on 100% of the snaps in game one.

 

I am convinced that our Pro Bowl left guard would be just fine within the structure of the team (as he had been) if the Bills did not stupidly try to nickel and dime him (especially given how they wasted money on Corey Coleman for example).

 

My view of Seantrel is the same as Brian Gaine (our former VP who was hired as GM of the Texans), who signed Seantrel in the off season.  Before he broke his ankle this past weekend, he had been named the starter and reportedly played well in the preseason and in practice against JJ Watt.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Peter

[SoCoBills]

2 minutes ago, Jobot said:

So what's the defenses excuse??

 

 

Talent. It takes time. Unloading that Dareus contract was a start but all that dead cap is brutal right now. Once its freed up more I expect the Bills to get a lot of mid level pieces combined with some nice draft maneuvering. This defense needs to get younger. So some of it is talent. The rest was exhaustion. It’s hard to compete when your offense doesn’t get a single first down to give you a moment to breathe in the entire first half. 

 

Baltimore also won the battle of play calling early. The coaches did also fail but it’s one game. Players sometimes get out played and coaches sometimes get out coached. I saw both happen. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by SoCoBills

[John from Riverside]

To the OP

 

I hear what you are saying.....I think your drawing a lot of ire from a select group of our board telling them that they cant question McD and Beane

 

I personally think its ok to question....just have a take that makes sense and not just raging.

 

For instance....telling a management group that they are aweful after one game into the next season after just coming off a playoff birth in the middle of a rebiuld?  In my opinion that makes you look foolish.

 

Nobody likes to lose....but this might be a losing year as we eat the crap sandwich of this dead cap money year....that is just reality.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, SoCoBills said:

These guys have a plan. Unfortunately though sometimes plans can be thrown off the rails by uncontrollable occurrences and even the best laid plans burn to ashes. 

 

When the Bills were scouting throughout 2017 they knew they were happy with their interior OL and they knew they wanted to get this team it’s new Franchise Quarterback while also trying to fill a massive hole at middle linebacker. The Bills made moves to make that happen. 

 

Unfortunately the first bomb fell and blew apart the process when Eric Wood’s post season diagnosis and resulting retirement came to be. Looking over the roster though the Bills felt decent about how Groy performed in his absence and brought in Bodine as insurance. OKAY, fine. Understandable. We still have Richie, a promising prospect in Dawkins and draft capital to add more pieces without mortgaging the future. 

 

Then another shock ripples through the plan and breaks it to pieces. Incognito literally loses his mind and renigs on his restructured deal all the way into retirement. Now what? At this point the Bills again, and wisely decided to stick to the plan.

 

You lost me right there.  That's an oxymoron.

 

If a plan can't change to reflect critical new information or altered circumstances, it's a bad plan and deserves to be criticized, not given accolades like "wise" and placed beyond doubt.

[4_kidd_4]

14 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I overall still like McDermott.  But that doesn't mean I like everything about him.  My pendulum will swing back and forth on him.....

 

What about his face? I definitely don’t like his face. 

 

Beane’s either, for that matter.

[Chuck Wagon]

I can be on board with getting draft picks and cleaning up the salary cap.  The team was pretty much at their ceiling as a 9-10 win team and was going to get cost prohibitive.

 

The FA signings concern me.

 

Star was a terrible signing, overpaying a DT who doesn't pass rush.  Bodine was a terrible signing, Bengals fans were laughing at that one immediately.  Newhouse was a bad signing, doubling down on one bad RT in Mills with a second in Newhouse.  I don't think Ivory is anything special, he was terrible last year in Jacksonville.  Murphy is J.A.G.  It seems they had no real interest in McCarron, or in bringing in a vet who would push Peterman (not even push Allen, they didn't want to push Peterman).  Nothing was done to address what was a poor WR group last year.

 

I know, I know, "Comp Picks" but they basically traded a 3rd round pick for Holmes, Ryan Davis and Dimarco last year, that's a terrible deal.

 

 

Pushing out talented players who can be a headache and insisting on a certain type of player speaks to weak leadership that lacks self confidence IMO.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

What about his face? I definitely don’t like his face. 

 

Beane’s either, for that matter.

 

Do you think he's singing Mama Mia?

 

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

 

Cordy Glenn is starting for the Bengals. He played on 100% of the snaps in game one.

 

I am convinced that our Pro Bowl left guard would be just fine within the structure of the team (as he had been) if the Bills did not stupidly try to nickel and dime him (especially given how they wasted money on Corey Coleman for example).

 

My view of Seantrel is the same as Brian Gaine (our former VP who was hired as GM of the Texans), who signed Seantrel in the off season.  Before he broke his ankle this past weekend, he had named the starter and reportedly played well in the preseason and in practice against JJ Watt.

You are entitled to your opinion.....I hope Cordy stays healthy I like him.  I can understand what the bills did with Dawkins playing well and the risk that Cordy brought...it was a gamble.   I would have liked to see a Cordy/Dawkins bookends but it was not to be.

 

To be convinced that a mentally disturbed person is going to be reliable is folly.....I am in the field and Cog was a ticking time bomb....and getting older at that.

 

Seantrel had this pattern of playing well until he got comfortable in my opinion....then things started happening....lazy play....medical issues....etc

[Peter]

2 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

You don’t know that.

 

you like Seantrel because he’s a Miami guy. 

 

Let’s keep it real

 

1) I do not know for sure, but I do believe it.

 

2) I am somewhat partial to Seantrel because he is a Miami guy (I am a UM season ticket holder), but there are plenty of former Miami players that I would not feel the same way about.  Maybe it is because of my history watching Seantrel play (with UM and the Bills) and seeing what he has gone through that has convinced me that he would be an upgrade for the Bills.  I guess I see the same thing in Seantrel as Brian Gaine (Texans GM and former Bills VP) sees in him.

[SoCoBills]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You lost me right there.  That's an oxymoron.

 

If a plan can't change to reflect critical new information or altered circumstances, it's a bad plan and deserves to be criticized, not given accolades like "wise" etc.

 

There just wasn’t much there as options IMO. You could have kicked the tires perhaps on some guys or overpaid for people that wouldn’t be in the long term plans of the future and would result in dead cap later with questionable results I suppose but sometimes you have to take some lumps to build a winner. 

 

Would you you rather have Edmunds and his elite looking level talent or would you rather the Bills have stayed put and taken a shot at a center and a guard with their next couple of picks? I personally want the dude who looks like he’s going to be elite for the next decade. I’m a BPA guy over a need guy in instances like this. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by SoCoBills

[4_kidd_4]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Do you think he's singing Mama Mia?

 

 

I think he’s ordering the same shirt he’s wearing, but with more mock turtleneck.

[DCOrange]

I agree that McBeane have a plan and that it was probably always a 3-4 year plan. I respect that and am willing to wait and see how next offseason goes since it will be a huge one for them considering the cap space they'll finally have available.

 

HOWEVER, it's impossible to look at the moves that Beane has made as GM and not come away at least significantly nervous about him. Setting the draft picks aside since they're basically all TBD at the moment, here's a recap of pretty much all of the significant moves he's made:

 

Sammy for Gaines/2nd: Will boil down to how Allen/Edmunds turn out (I can't remember which guy they used this pick to trade up for). It would obviously be nice right now to have a good WR though.
Ragland for a 4th: TBD
Darby for Matthews & Harrison Phillips: Looks like a loss, but depends on Phillips
Russell Bodine: Couldn't even beat out Groy
Corey Coleman: Basically just lit $3 million on fire and are now paying him to play for the Patriots.
McCarron: Sucks so bad that we're stuck with Peterman or the option of killing Allen
Benjamin Trade: Looks awful right now
Vontae: Signed for more (if I remember right) money than EJ Gaines (a good starter) and he's a healthy scratch.
Trent Murphy: Looks bad/injury issues
Star: Was a bad signing from the get-go. Add in the fact that they moved Dareus' contract to have the ability to sign Star to an even worse contract...
Ivory: one of the most expensive backup RBs in the league and he's not even the primary backup.

 

It's a pretty horrible track record at the moment, and we're entrusting this guy to spend a ton of money this offseason.

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, SoCoBills said:

I’m not even going to bother with those incapable of showing proper respect or at least courtesy to other forum members. 

 

That said, I stand by my OP. I’m not claiming anyone is God’s Gift to football but I do like some of the young players. I think next year we will be competitive though not great and the year after we are a playoff team if they keep things rolling as they have been. 

 

Right now there are too many pieces to fill. McCoy won’t be here beyond next year IMO. The Bills will get some pieces via draft and FA. To score big on both Edmunds and Allen like I feel we have and to get a long term contributor in Phillips like I feel we have in one draft is phenomenal.

 

Also because there was a Tyrod mention. Tyrod had a very long time to throw last year before taking off. Tyrod doesn’t see the field and or doesn’t trust his eyes. He has so few turnovers because he rarely takes any chances and rarely throws the ball down the field. That’s why he rarely throws for over 150 yards in any game. Tyrod is serviceable as a backup or on teams that want to ground and pound and win with defense. IMO Cleveland wins week 1 over Pittsburgh if they have Baker in over Tyrod but now we are getting off topic. 

 

The Browns are a great example though. They are going the route of some of the better organizations. The Rams a few years back are another example. A team wins only a few games for one or two years. Gets building blocks for the future, stays the course and then the future is bright for the next decade. I see the Bills going in that direction right now, but hopefully with some more wins. 

The Browns have won 1 game out of the last 33. They need to start winning before you can annoint them as a good example. How many number 1 and number 2 draft picks are on their current roster over the past 5 years? I still think they are a dumpster fire like us.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, SoCoBills said:

 

There just wasn’t much there as options IMO. You could have kicked the tires perhaps on some guys or overpaid for people that wouldn’t be in the long term plans of the future and would result in dead cap later with questionable results I suppose but sometimes you have to take some lumps to build a winner. 

 

Is that going to be the excuse this next season?

 

There were FA OLmen other than Bodine available.

There were Olmen in the draft.

 

Our FO made choices.  Different choices were possible.

 

You can endorse their choices as "lumps to build a winner", but the fact is, they made choices that excluded options that were available, and their choices are open to being questioned as good choices in view of current data.

[SoCoBills]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

I agree that McBeane have a plan and that it was probably always a 3-4 year plan. I respect that and am willing to wait and see how next offseason goes since it will be a huge one for them considering the cap space they'll finally have available.

 

HOWEVER, it's impossible to look at the moves that Beane has made as GM and not come away at least significantly nervous about him. Setting the draft picks aside since they're basically all TBD at the moment, here's a recap of pretty much all of the significant moves he's made:

 

Sammy for Gaines/2nd: Will boil down to how Allen/Edmunds turn out (I can't remember which guy they used this pick to trade up for). It would obviously be nice right now to have a good WR though.
Ragland for a 4th: TBD
Darby for Matthews & Harrison Phillips: Looks like a loss, but depends on Phillips
Russell Bodine: Couldn't even beat out Groy
Corey Coleman: Basically just lit $3 million on fire and are now paying him to play for the Patriots.
McCarron: Sucks so bad that we're stuck with Peterman or the option of killing Allen
Benjamin Trade: Looks awful right now
Vontae: Signed for more (if I remember right) money than EJ Gaines (a good starter) and he's a healthy scratch.
Trent Murphy: Looks bad/injury issues
Star: Was a bad signing from the get-go. Add in the fact that they moved Dareus' contract to have the ability to sign Star to an even worse contract...
Ivory: one of the most expensive backup RBs in the league and he's not even the primary backup.

 

It's a pretty horrible track record at the moment, and we're entrusting this guy to spend a ton of money this offseason.

 

This stuff I can get on board with. I’m not happy with some of these fill in players. But IMO I don’t think these guys are here to be the future. I think each of them has a role to play and the goal was to stay competitive enough to not be a disservice to the city while the transition/rebuild happens.  The Darby trade is one that stands out to me as poor but these things unfortunately happen when regimes are constantly changing. That’s just how things always seem to go in the NFL. 

 

For that hat reason I also choose to air on the side of wait and see at this point. 

[Cripple Creek]

2 hours ago, SoCoBills said:

These guys have a plan. Unfortunately though sometimes plans can be thrown off the rails by uncontrollable occurrences and even the best laid plans burn to ashes. 

 

When the Bills were scouting throughout 2017 they knew they were happy with their interior OL and they knew they wanted to get this team it’s new Franchise Quarterback while also trying to fill a massive hole at middle linebacker. The Bills made moves to make that happen. 

 

Unfortunately the first bomb fell and blew apart the process when Eric Wood’s post season diagnosis and resulting retirement came to be. Looking over the roster though the Bills felt decent about how Groy performed in his absence and brought in Bodine as insurance. OKAY, fine. Understandable. We still have Richie, a promising prospect in Dawkins and draft capital to add more pieces without mortgaging the future. 

 

Then another shock ripples through the plan and breaks it to pieces. Incognito literally loses his mind and renigs on his restructured deal all the way into retirement. Now what? At this point the Bills again, and wisely decided to stick to the plan. Draft your future at QB and draft your leader on defense who already looks like he has stardom in his future. If there is one villain in this story it is certainly Incognito but as he’s faded into the shadows of the Twitter-verse and out of relevance the blame fingers had to find somewhere else to point. 

 

Going into next year the Bills have young talent emerging, they have some draft capital and they have a heck of a lot of cap space being freed up to build a heck of a football team for years to come. 

 

Unfortunately this year could be painful. They couldn’t have planned for Richie to lose his mind and chose to stay the course rather than trying to compete on the FA market for replacements which could impact future cap plans/space. Sure there were some misfires - Davis appears to be one and the jury is still out on Star. 

 

The FA market right now isn’t exactly a shining beacon of light when it comes to offensive line talent. I don’t think they ever meant to phone in this season. I believe they very much so want to win but I also believe they see the big picture and if I had to guess they know that the Pegulas share their vision and are committed to them beyond this year. 

 

I believe Beane and McD are constantly evaluating & constantly looking to improve the team but not at the expense of the bigger picture. If we have Wood & Incognito I think we are worlds better than we are right now. I think that makes our offense immediately competent. It’s eye opening to discover exactly how important the big guys along the inside of your OL are when you don’t have any good ones isn’t it?

Why shouldn’t I doubt them?