Optimistic About 2018

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

Rhetorical question:

 

In a thread entitled "Optimistic about 2018," why do people who aren't optimistic feel compelled to join in and spread their pessimism?

 

Because it's a discussion board?

 

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

Rhetorical question:

 

In a thread entitled "Optimistic about 2018," why do people who aren't optimistic feel compelled to join in and spread their pessimism?

 

 

Where/from whom do you see pessimism about 2018 and beyond?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Where/from whom do you see pessimism about 2018 and beyond?

 

Not singling out you. Don't worry.

 

I didn't see what you said as being overly pessimistic.

 

[Stank_Nasty]

34 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

No, it would really do all of us a favor, including yourself, if you just went away and stopped following the Bills.

the irony in all this is that in his condescending responses to either one of us he was the one calling somebody else a douche...… the dude is the very definition. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[Gugny]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

Not singling out you. Don't worry.

 

I didn't see what you said as being overly pessimistic.

 

 

I gave a realistic assessment of last season, setting up my realistic/very optimistic views regarding 2018 and beyond.  Then Stink Finger jumped all over me and got backup from Michael Jackson's Sister.

 

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

the irony in all this is that in his responses to either one of us he was the one calling somebody else a douche...… the dude is the very definition. 

 

I just re-read what I wrote.  I didn't call anyone a douche.  Man, you two need to brush up on your comprehension skills.  I'll try to write one sentence at a time in the future.  You're a feisty little guy, aren't you?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I gave a realistic assessment of last season, setting up my realistic/very optimistic views regarding 2018 and beyond.  Then Stink Finger jumped all over me and got backup from Michael Jackson's Sister.

 

 

I just re-read what I wrote.  I didn't call anyone a douche.  Man, you two need to brush up on your comprehension skills.  I'll try to write one sentence at a time in the future.  You're a feisty little guy, aren't you?

 

Welp, that was a feisty response to my response

 

ANYWAY, it was a rhetorical question. There are those here who've pre-baked in an idea that this team's going to be worse than last year without any REAL hard evidence to back it up. Rather, I think it's just a symptom of the prior 17 seasons.

 

 

[Stank_Nasty]

6 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I gave a realistic assessment of last season, setting up my realistic/very optimistic views regarding 2018 and beyond.  Then Stink Finger jumped all over me and got backup from Michael Jackson's Sister.

 

you call saying I disagree jumping all over you? I simply said I disagreed and that I think extremely low of you therefore I wasn't gonna bother with a response. Then, naturally, and right on cue, your name calling started. 

 

teams that win more than they lose and make the playoffs aren't generally hard to watch week in and week out. you can have your assessment of last year but that doesn't mean its not a really stupid one.

46 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I used to be like you, wearing those rose-colored glasses.

 

The major difference was, however, I wasn't a douchebag about it.

 

Toodles. 

 

6 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I gave a realistic assessment of last season, setting up my realistic/very optimistic views regarding 2018 and beyond.  Then Stink Finger jumped all over me and got backup from Michael Jackson's Sister.

 

 

I just re-read what I wrote.  I didn't call anyone a douche.  Man, you two need to brush up on your comprehension skills.  I'll try to write one sentence at a time in the future.  You're a feisty little guy, aren't you?

what do you call that exactly? 

and thank you for totally reinforcing my original statements and thoughts on you in the first place. you're a freaking jack-a**

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[Gugny]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

Welp, that was a feisty response to my response

 

ANYWAY, it was a rhetorical question. There are those here who've pre-baked in an idea that this team's going to be worse than last year without any REAL hard evidence to back it up. Rather, I think it's just a symptom of the prior 17 seasons.

 

 

 

I, for one, believe the team will have a worse record than last year ... BUT, they will be a better team.  I know you can grasp this.  Others, I'm not optimistic about.

 

I think the 2018 team will have more talent, overall, but not polished talent.  I expect the team to show significant progress between week 1 and week 17.  Said progress cannot necessarily be measured by wins and losses; which was my point in bringing up last season.  Last season's team had no business winning 9 games.  Loved that it happened; but it was a fluke, in my opinion.

 

I think we get better in every area this year; but I think this year will be a year of growth; not necessarily a lot of wins.  But you never know ... that's why they play the games.

 

So I am absolutely optimistic about the team for 2018 and beyond.  I'm more excited than I've been in many years.  I'm just keeping my expectations tempered, that's all.

 

GO BILLS!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

I, for one, believe the team will have a worse record than last year ... BUT, they will be a better team.  I know you can grasp this.  Others, I'm not optimistic about.

 

I think the 2018 team will have more talent, overall, but not polished talent.  I expect the team to show significant progress between week 1 and week 17.  Said progress cannot necessarily be measured by wins and losses; which was my point in bringing up last season.  Last season's team had no business winning 9 games.  Loved that it happened; but it was a fluke, in my opinion.

 

I think we get better in every area this year; but I think this year will be a year of growth; not necessarily a lot of wins.  But you never know ... that's why they play the games.

 

So I am absolutely optimistic about the team for 2018 and beyond.  I'm more excited than I've been in many years.  I'm just keeping my expectations tempered, that's all.

 

GO BILLS!

 

See, here's where I'm at:

 

People are writing off the games against the Chargers, Vikings and Packers.

 

Why? Not one of those teams is unbeatable in the way the Patriots are. They all have flaws, and I think they all can be beaten. Even if the Bills get ONE win out of those three games, I think they have a very realistic shot at making 9 wins again.

 

 

[Chef Jim]

51 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

No, it would really do all of us a favor, including yourself, if you just went away and stopped following the Bills.

 

Now that's some real good advice!  

26 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

Rhetorical question:

 

In a thread entitled "Optimistic about 2018," why do people who aren't optimistic feel compelled to join in and spread their pessimism?

 

 

Because it's what we do! 

 

Wait.........how the !@#$ did I end up on TSW??  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Because it's what we do! 

Who's this we?

 

 

[Gugny]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

See, here's where I'm at:

 

People are writing off the games against the Chargers, Vikings and Packers.

 

Why? Not one of those teams is unbeatable in the way the Patriots are. They all have flaws, and I think they all can be beaten. Even if the Bills get ONE win out of those three games, I think they have a very realistic shot at making 9 wins again.

 

 

 

And you could very well be right - and I hope you are.

 

Here's why I think it's unlikely:  First year starter at QB (possibly a rookie); very old at RB; questionable O line; Benjamin already icing his knee and question marks with every other WR; first year OC.  The QB and OC situations are what really worry me.

 

However .... I think we have our QB of the future (finally) and I'm optimistic about the entire coaching staff, including the new OC.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Gugny said:

The QB and OC situations are what really worry me.

 

However .... I think we have our QB of the future (finally) and I'm optimistic about the entire coaching staff, including the new OC.

 

 

 

Ok, so this was a little blink-worthy.

 

Are the OC/QB a cause for concern or a source of optimism?

 

 

[Gugny]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

Ok, so this was a little blink-worthy.

 

Are the OC/QB a cause for concern or a source of optimism?

 

 

 

Both. 

 

I think their lack of experience will hold the offense back this year.

I also think that, as they gain experience, we will see progress throughout the year.

Ultimately, I think that the experience they gain this year will make the 2019 Bills contenders.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Both. 

 

I think their lack of experience will hold the offense back this year.

I also think that, as they gain experience, we will see progress throughout the year.

Ultimately, I think that the experience they gain this year will make the 2019 Bills contenders.

 

That's at least partly reasonable. But they certainly CAN NOT be worse than the offense was last year. I think they'll turn the ball over more, but it will be a side-effect of actually passing the ball. But I think the net result will be a better offense overall, even in week 1.

 

And so far as the defense goes, I bet it will improve over last year as well. So, to my mind if both the offense AND defense improve, the team's record should as well.

 

 

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

Who's this we?

 

 

 

Us pessimists.  I thought that was pretty obvious. 

 

Wait I'm not a pessimist.  I'm a don'tcareist. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

 

Us pessimists.  I thought that was pretty obvious. 

 

Wait I'm not a pessimist.  I'm a don'tcareist. 

 

You're a raiders fan.

 

*throws snowballs* BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Chef Jim]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

You're a raiders fan.

 

*throws snowballs* BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

 

*Ducks and throws a shiv.*  

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

That's at least partly reasonable. But they certainly CAN NOT be worse than the offense was last year. I think they'll turn the ball over more, but it will be a side-effect of actually passing the ball. But I think the net result will be a better offense overall, even in week 1.

 

And so far as the defense goes, I bet it will improve over last year as well. So, to my mind if both the offense AND defense improve, the team's record should as well.

 

 

 

I wouldn't be shocked if your prediction comes true.  I'd be very pleasantly/mildly surprised, but not shocked.

 

Stranger things have happened!

 

16 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Now that's some real good advice!  

 

Et tu, Bluto?

[SoTier]

16 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

That's at least partly reasonable. But they certainly CAN NOT be worse than the offense was last year. I think they'll turn the ball over more, but it will be a side-effect of actually passing the ball. But I think the net result will be a better offense overall, even in week 1.

 

And so far as the defense goes, I bet it will improve over last year as well. So, to my mind if both the offense AND defense improve, the team's record should as well.

 

 

 

ROTFLMAO!  The offense CAN certainly be worse than the offense was last year!  Maybe you don't remember the offenses under Dick Jauron in 2008 and 2009, but I do.  Those offensive offenses make the 2017 Bills look like a juggernaut. 

 

While the Bills showed lots of passing in Preseason Game 1, there's no guarantee that they'll continue to be a passing team in the regular season ... or that the OL will perform even close to its 2017 level ... or that any of the QBs are competent NFL starters ... or that injury won't take out Shady or Clay or Benjamin ... or all three.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

ROTFLMAO!  The offense CAN certainly be worse than the offense was last year!  Maybe you don't remember the offenses under Dick Jauron in 2008 and 2009, but I do.  Those offensive offenses make the 2017 Bills look like a juggernaut. 

 

While the Bills showed lots of passing in Preseason Game 1, there's no guarantee that they'll continue to be a passing team in the regular season ... or that the OL will perform even close to its 2017 level ... or that any of the QBs are competent NFL starters ... or that injury won't take out Shady or Clay or Benjamin ... or all three.

 

 

And this is what I was talking about.

 

For this guy, there can be no light at the end of the tunnel other than an oncoming train.

 

[SoTier]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

And this is what I was talking about.

 

For this guy, there can be no light at the end of the tunnel other than an oncoming train.

 

 

With the Bills, that seems to be how things work ... and have worked since Bill Polian packed his bags about a quarter of a century ago.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

With the Bills, that seems to be how things work ... and have worked since Bill Polian packed his bags about a quarter of a century ago.

 

 

 

And you can find NO signs that this regime is different?

 

I'd say that's more a you problem than a Bills problem.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

ROTFLMAO!  The offense CAN certainly be worse than the offense was last year!  Maybe you don't remember the offenses under Dick Jauron in 2008 and 2009, but I do.  Those offensive offenses make the 2017 Bills look like a juggernaut. 

 

While the Bills showed lots of passing in Preseason Game 1, there's no guarantee that they'll continue to be a passing team in the regular season ... or that the OL will perform even close to its 2017 level ... or that any of the QBs are competent NFL starters ... or that injury won't take out Shady or Clay or Benjamin ... or all three.

 

 

No defensive minded coach with Peterman, McCarron and a rook at QB along with Shady and Ivory at RB is favoring a passing offense.

 

and you are absolutely correct, 22nd in the league in points per game and very lower turner rate could  certainly get dramatically worse... 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

No defensive minded coach with Peterman, McCarron and a rook at QB along with Shady and Ivory at RB is favoring a passing offense.

 

 

Such certainty!

 

Can I borrow your crystal ball a moment? Need tomorrow's powerball numbers.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

Such certainty!

 

Can I borrow your crystal ball a moment? Need tomorrow's powerball numbers.

 

 

You keep your hands off my balls... and don’t take my word for it, ask Jalen! 

[SoTier]

4 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

And you can find NO signs that this regime is different?

 

I'd say that's more a you problem than a Bills problem.

 

 

McDermott is probably the best HC the Bills have had since Chuck Knox.  I think the Bills would have a Lombardi if he'd been the HC against the Giants rather than Marv Levy despite going against Parcells (and his evil assistant, DC Bill Belichick).

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

And this is what I was talking about.

 

For this guy, there can be no light at the end of the tunnel other than an oncoming train.

 

 

......tied to the tracks may not be a bad idea either.......Jesus between him and good 'ol Scott Law, these clowns soggy up their Wheaties with Liquid Plumber...SMH....

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

McDermott is probably the best HC the Bills have had since Chuck Knox.  I think the Bills would have a Lombardi if he'd been the HC against the Giants rather than Marv Levy despite going against Parcells (and his evil assistant, DC Bill Belichick).

 

OK, so instead of doubting EVERYTHING...build on that positivity. YOU CAN DO EET

 

 

[Wagon Circler]

53 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

ROTFLMAO!  The offense CAN certainly be worse than the offense was last year!  Maybe you don't remember the offenses under Dick Jauron in 2008 and 2009, but I do.  Those offensive offenses make the 2017 Bills look like a juggernaut. 

 

While the Bills showed lots of passing in Preseason Game 1, there's no guarantee that they'll continue to be a passing team in the regular season ... or that the OL will perform even close to its 2017 level ... or that any of the QBs are competent NFL starters ... or that injury won't take out Shady or Clay or Benjamin ... or all three.

 

You must be a lot of fun at parties. They haven't thrown the ball around like that in a preseason game  since at least Jim Kelly. Eleven wins.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Wagon Circler

[Gugny]

Has anyone really ever rolled on the floor, laughing his ass off?

[reddogblitz]

20 hours ago, SoTier said:

Those should be red flags warning fans not to read a whole lot into success in Preseason Game 1.

 

now would be a good time to remember that although pre season looks like real football, smells 

like real football, and even feels like real football at times , IT'S NOT REAL FOOTBALL.?

[GunnerBill]

I do get what people are saying about last season. It wasn't a "fun" Bills team to watch. In fact it was decidedly "unfun" most weeks. I enjoyed a lot of the results but not a lot of the games.... probably the Buccs game and the Raiders game being the exceptions. Many of the others were like torture to watch both because of the emotional energy they required me to expend in tight low scoring tense contests and because they were often ugly. I loved the Dalton moment as I am pretty sure every Bills fan did and all the "they wouldn't have got in most years" stuff I couldn't care less. Teams squeak into the playoffs without being one of the best 12 teams in the league every single year - why the hell shouldn't that be us for a change? 17 freaking years man. It was the first time in my fandem I had seen the Bills play a playoff game. I still watch the reaction videos on the train home after a bad day sometimes. To get all McDermott on you for a moment it is possible to love the outcome but not the process. That was my view on most of last season. 

 

I am not especially optimistic this year. A lot of question marks, some paper thin depth in key spots, but equally if we come out of this season feeling good about Allen and Edmunds then even if we only have 6 or 7 wins I think that is a good year. 

 

I love McDermott and I like Beane and like that they are joined at the hip. I am optimistic about the team's future, just not especially our prospects for 2018. 

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

Has anyone really ever rolled on the floor, laughing his ass off?

I have !     wazza matter you too grumpy? 

 

I'm always optimistic.    

 

thats why there is a saying  

 

You can't fix stupid !

 

 

I'm excited for the possibility for a  real passing game.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

Has anyone really ever rolled on the floor, laughing his ass off?

 

...just called 911 to help me get up..............

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

Has anyone really ever rolled on the floor, laughing his ass off?

 

I have laughed so hard I slid off my chair.  My ass, however, remained attached.

23 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

Optimism? Is that tolerated here?

 

Yes.

 

Oh, did you mean by other posters?  Hey, if y’all had the same viewpoint, the board would be dull, dontcha think?

[Bray Wyatt]

16 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

And you could very well be right - and I hope you are.

 

Here's why I think it's unlikely:  First year starter at QB (possibly a rookie); very old at RB; questionable O line; Benjamin already icing his knee and question marks with every other WR; first year OC.  The QB and OC situations are what really worry me.

 

However .... I think we have our QB of the future (finally) and I'm optimistic about the entire coaching staff, including the new OC.

 

 

 

I think thats why if we sneak out a couple wins early we could certainly make the playoffs again. If we get to 3 or 4 wins in the first half, we can make the playoffs again.

 

 

[BuffaLoko]

On 8/15/2018 at 11:16 PM, Rocky Landing said:

I think I'm generally, but not entirely... pessimistic.

1) I think much of our offensive success hinges on the performance of our O-line. And, I think they are suspect. Could easily be well below average. It's hard to come up with a reason why they wouldn't be worse than they were last season.

2) I think, along with our O-line, much of our Qb success (regardless of who starts) hinges on the success of our receiving corps. And, they may be the worst in the league, even with a healthy KB (and, his health (knees) is also a reason for concern). Take KB out of the picture (again, not unlikely), and our WR corp IS one, if not THE worst in the league.

3) There is plenty of reason to doubt that Allen will develop into a viable, NFL-ready starter this season. Just about everyone thought he was a raw talent coming out of college. Nothing he has done has swayed that opinion. Also, there were more than a few pundits who projected him as a bust. While his latest preseason performance gave us all reason to be optimistic, one preseason game is certainly not enough to simply overturn those predictions.

4) Our running backs are old, and if our O-line isn't at the very least equal to last year (see #1 above), there is no reason to believe Shady will be as productive as he was last year.

5) All of a sudden, we seem to be shallow in the defensive backfield. There has been an assumption that the tandem of White/Davis was elite. Now, after PS game#1, that is in question.

6) Line backers. Edmunds is a star in the making, sure. But, he's 20. And, what else have we done to upgrade our linebackers?

7) In the likely event that McD does not feel that Josh Allen is ready to start the season, we are left with the choice between AJ McCarron, and Nate Peterman. THAT is not good.

 

Or... maybe I'm just being a TROLL.

 

 

TROLL!! 

[reddogblitz]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I do get what people are saying about last season. It wasn't a "fun" Bills team to watch. In fact it was decidedly "unfun" most weeks. I enjoyed a lot of the results but not a lot of the games.... probably the Buccs game and the Raiders game being the exceptions. Many of the others were like torture to watch both because of the emotional energy they required me to expend in tight low scoring tense contests and because they were often ugly. 

 

I in no way shape or form get what people are saying about last season.  My Gosh Man, after 17 years of no playoffs and an exciting finish winning down the stretch to everyone except the Evil Empire, you gotta be picky about how we win?

 

A W is a W is a W.  there are no style points in football. 

 

As to the bolded, it reminds me of a quote I heard from Bill Parcells when asked about an "ugly win".  He said ugly win? I've never had such a thing.  They are all beautiful to me.

 

Just win baby.

 

Go BILLS !!

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I in no way shape or form get what people are saying about last season.  My Gosh Man, after 17 years of no playoffs and an exciting finish winning down the stretch to everyone except the Evil Empire, you gotta be picky about how we win?

 

A W is a W is a W.  there are no style points in football. 

 

As to the bolded, it reminds me of a quote I heard from Bill Parcells when asked about an "ugly win".  He said ugly win? I've never had such a thing.  They are all beautiful to me.

 

Just win baby.

 

Go BILLS !!

 

 

 

 

I agree the result is the result regadless. I am not an emotional person. The result is always divorced from the process. After 2014 I was more adament than almost anyone in here that the Bills should retain Doug Marrone because the process that year was often better than the results. I am a process guy and was before it became cool around here. The results in 2017 were ahead of the process. I think the process was right and the results were sometimes fortunate.