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Beane's Counterbalance to Missing on Josh Allen: Great Trades, Drafting, and Free Agent Pickups.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, kota said:

I seriously doubt that hte coach or GM will be going anywhere for 10 years.  Pegulas have bought in as they should.

 

Ten years?  They haven't proven anything thus far to inspire that kind of confidence along with that long reign. 

Edited by 26CornerBlitz
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I think Beanes time as GM for the Bills is linked to Allen. It will be 2 or 3 yrs before a fair assessment can be made of Allen. At that time Beane will be at a point where if the team is not performing then his time as GM may be over. That being said, succcess for Allen will not be just on Allen alone. The right coaching, system, and players around him will be big factors in how successful he will be. When it comes to reading defenses and making the right throws on time with accuracy will be on Allen. 

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14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

What exactly is revisionist?

 

Please explain

 

Josh Allen was largely identified by the draft gurus as the guy with the biggest bust potential. There were a solid 3-4 draft experts in his corner, but let’s not pretend that he was highly thought of. He was NOT talked about as being safe. Allen was not a safe pick. He has potential and could be great, but he was largely considered to be the worst of the big-4 coming out. To spin it any other way only a couple of months later is ridiculous. 

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58 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Fair enough on the secondary.  I think the moves beane has been making is part of a plan to get there team in a good place for 2019.  Freeing up cap and saving future picks this year instead of giving them up to move up further than 7 was a good indication of that.

 

Also getting rid of players that don't fit the team first mentality.

Funny that the majority of those guys who didn’t fit the “team first” mentality went to the playoffs and one won a SB.

 

This whole BS character culture is overblown.  It’s also funny that we just signed a bunch of guys who got popped for PEDs but I guess they fit the culture.

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12 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

Josh Allen was largely identified by the draft gurus as the guy with the biggest bust potential. There were a solid 3-4 draft experts in his corner, but let’s not pretend that he was highly thought of. He was NOT talked about as being safe. Allen was not a safe pick. He has potential and could be great, but he was largely considered to be the worst of the big-4 coming out. To spin it any other way only a couple of months later is ridiculous. 

Hmmmm

2 of these QBs were drafted before we could pick at 7.   If you ask me the bills would have taken Sam Darnold if he was on the board...he wasnt.

 

but

 

Does that really matter?   This was the best QB draft to come along in some time.   if Josh Allen was in LAST year's draft he would have went even higher.

 

and

 

Our choices if we were going to select a QB now were Josh Allen or Josh Rosen (who I could care less about attitude he is in fact concussion prone and runs right into hits when in the pocket.

 

I think Beane deserves credit for taking the swing.....it is even sweeter because we didnt have to give up future draft capital to do it.

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2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Hmmmm

2 of these QBs were drafted before we could pick at 7.   If you ask me the bills would have taken Sam Darnold if he was on the board...he wasnt.

 

but

 

Does that really matter?   This was the best QB draft to come along in some time.   if Josh Allen was in LAST year's draft he would have went even higher.

 

and

 

Our choices if we were going to select a QB now were Josh Allen or Josh Rosen (who I could care less about attitude he is in fact concussion prone and runs right into hits when in the pocket.

 

I think Beane deserves credit for taking the swing.....it is even sweeter because we didnt have to give up future draft capital to do it.

He deserves credit if he took the wrong Josh?

 

and we always try to rank these college qbs?  There’s a chance that Watson or Mahomes is better than anyone in this year’s highly rated class.

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3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He deserves credit if he took the wrong Josh?

 

and we always try to rank these college qbs?  There’s a chance that Watson or Mahomes is better than anyone in this year’s highly rated class.

Well what if he didnt take the wrong josh?  What if Josh Rosen takes another concussion and retires?   Did he still take the wrong josh?

 

There is also a chance that Watson (not as likely) and Mahomes (very likely) dont pan out?

 

Did Beane still screw up?

 

Because right now it looks like he got Tre White and Josh Allen without having to give up future number 1 picks......to take a franchise QB (potentially) without having to give up future draft capital would make for a pretty smart GM no?

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It seems to me you judge a GM's worth on his entire body of work.

That being said, acquiring a franchise QB is a GM's most important job.

 

We all will know sometime in 2020.............probably.

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Just now, ColoradoBills said:

It seems to me you judge a GM's worth on his entire body of work.

That being said, acquiring a franchise QB is a GM's most important job.

 

We all will know sometime in 2020.............probably.

In all honesty it wont be that way....if this draft class is steller.....if Edmunds becomes a all pro player.....Beane will still be judged on Josh Allen

 

but

 

HOW he went about taking that swing should also be judged.

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2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Well what if he didnt take the wrong josh?  What if Josh Rosen takes another concussion and retires?   Did he still take the wrong josh?

 

There is also a chance that Watson (not as likely) and Mahomes (very likely) dont pan out?

 

Did Beane still screw up?

 

Because right now it looks like he got Tre White and Josh Allen without having to give up future number 1 picks......to take a franchise QB (potentially) without having to give up future draft capital would make for a pretty smart GM no?

Just curious how you determine it’s how it’s highly likely Mahomes won’t turn into a good qb?

 

and if they messed up on our highest drafted qb ever, why do they get a second swing?  Whaley got to draft one qb in the 1st and went 9-7 and constructed a much more talented team.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/3/2018 at 9:11 AM, SoTier said:

 

I disagree with this completely.  You are claiming that even if the current Bills regime fails to produce, they're still "the right guys".   Why is that?  

 

If you're a manager of a business who made questionable deals to supposedly amass "capital" that you then squandered by spending lavishly on a couple of very risky projects that had limited chances of success, especially after you had stripped your business of so many assets, why should you be given more opportunities to screw up?  Shouldn't "the right guy" prove he's "the right guy" with positive results when he spent so much and got so little to show for his "capital"?

 

Claiming that "The Bills' roster is pretty set all around with a few areas that could use upgrades here and there" is an ignorant statement.  The Bills offense is a joke.  Their QBs have fewer than 10 NFL starts among the three of them, and neither McCarron nor Peterman have demonstrated that they have the potential to be low-quality NFL starters. The Bills have 1 legitimate NFL WR, Benjamin, and he has had a history of bad knees.  Zay Jones is a bust unless and until he proves otherwise.  The retirements of Wood and Incognito and the trading of Glenn has left the Bills OL made up of journeymen and career backups with only 1 legit NFL starting quality player, sophomore OT Dion Dawkins.   

 

With the draft capital that the Bills had, they could have filled some of those offensive holes if they had stayed at #12 and taken whichever QB was left.  Allen was not such a good prospect that he merited the Bills moving up from #12.  If Rosen was available and they didn't want him, then the Bills could have passed.  They didn't have to take a first round QB if they didn't like him unless, of course, like in 2013 when the Bills took Manuel in the first round, taking a QB in the first round was primarily a move to increase ticket sales.   If that was the case, then how are "the right guys" any different from "the wrong guys" of previous regimes, OP?  In fact, how is the Pegulas' ownership any different from Ralph Wilson's ownership?  If Allen fails, which several of Beane's other personnel decisions both before and during the draft may have very well made more likely to happen, then Beane deserves the boot because he's hardly better Whaley or Donahoe. 

 

Even the best QBs need protection and targets.  As of right now, whoever plays QB for the Bills in 2018 -- and possibly going forward into 2019 and 2020 -- isn't going to have much of either one, and the fault for that lies with the GM, Brandon Beane.

 

 

 

 

I didn't say if Beane failed to produce by missing on every draft prospect, free agent signing, and trade deal that he should be retained...I was speaking squarely on the Josh Allen pick not working out as planned.

 

Furthermore, an 18-year playoff drought ended year one on the job, says he's already produced.

 

I'm assuming you're likening the business figure in your analogy to Beane and what you believe all his wheeling and dealing will amount to when all is said and done, when you ask why such a figure should be given more opportunity to screw things up?

 

I could only answer that honestly if I felt Beane actually screwed things up, which I don't.

 

I could make perfect sense out of each trade that took place involving Sammy Watkins, Reggie Ragland, Marcel Dareus, Tyrod Taylor, and Cordy Glenn, with Ronald Darby being the only move that puzzled me at the time.

 

I don't consider those moves as stripping the Bills' of its assets; they were moves that were beneficial to the franchise either immediately and/or down the road.

 

The Bills acquired actual assets in the form of draft picks, but as I stated, I don't think a 1st and two 2nd's was a steep price to pay to move into the top 10 for their QB.

 

If my statement about the Bills being pretty set overall is an ignorant one, then you might want to consider yours about the offense being a 'joke' as being equally ignorant, considering that you don't know what type of offensive mind Brian Daboll is, or what the new additions at WR will bring to the party.

 

The O-line has two serviceable guys in Ducasse and Mills returning, along with Dion Dawkins; Ryan Groy was beloved by most in here when he was Eric Wood's backup, and John Miller who was solid as a rookie, is gearing up to return to the starting lineup.

 

Don't forget about Wyatt Teller, who most draft experts, along with the guys at PFF spoke of and rated very highly, will also be at the coaching staff's disposal.

 

Who's to say that the O-line will definitely take a step backwards? 

 

Josh Allen's detractors may not have believed Allen to be a good enough prospect that merited a move from the 12th spot to go get, but if he ends up being the best of the bunch, then Beane's maneuvering to go snatch him will obviously be justified.

 

I was as skeptical as anyone after the pick, largely because of his completion percentage in college, but the positive reports he's received early on concerning his accuracy should serve as some encouragement that perhaps Beane knew something that others didn't or chose to overlook.

Edited by BurpleBull

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4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Just curious how you determine it’s how it’s highly likely Mahomes won’t turn into a good qb?

 

and if they messed up on our highest drafted qb ever, why do they get a second swing?  Whaley got to draft one qb in the 1st and went 9-7 and constructed a much more talented team.

Mahommes is a air raid QB.....these guys dont tend to work out in the NFL.....in his limited time last year he didnt look that great.

 

I think they deserve a second swing because I like the way they went about it....I like that we didnt mortgage our future to take a swing in the correct draft.....when 2019 rolls around and we still have our 1st round pick ppl will be very happy the way Beane went about his business keeping our draft capital.

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16 hours ago, The_Dude said:

He should be fired if Rosen is good and Allen is not. 

 

It depends on how the rest of his personnel decisions go IMO.

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If we go three and out the first series, first game:  Fire Daboll

 

If we let the other team get a first down their first series:  Fire Frazier

 

Lose the first game:  Fire McD and Beane

 

And so on.....,

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1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

If we go three and out the first series, first game:  Fire Daboll

 

If we let the other team get a first down their first series:  Fire Frazier

 

Lose the first game:  Fire McD and Beane

 

And so on.....,

They made the playoffs in their 1st year....thankfully I dont think any of the above will happen.

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2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Mahommes is a air raid QB.....these guys dont tend to work out in the NFL.....in his limited time last year he didnt look that great.

 

I think they deserve a second swing because I like the way they went about it....I like that we didnt mortgage our future to take a swing in the correct draft.....when 2019 rolls around and we still have our 1st round pick ppl will be very happy the way Beane went about his business keeping our draft capital.

For the record John, I always enjoy your optimism and hope you’re right. But to play devil’s advocate.

 

1) Mahomes is in a great situation with a great offensive coach.  If you’re saying all air raid qbs don’t work out, couldn’t you say the same thing about sub 60% qbs from small conferences?  Not a big track of guys like Allen turning into stars at the next level.

 

2). Whaley traded down, picked EJ, used the pick he got to pick Kiko (runner up ROY), & then traded him for Shady.  That’s pretty damn impressive though EJ didn’t work out.  He never got another chance to pick a guy and was said to really like Watson.

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Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

For the record John, I always enjoy your optimism and hope you’re right. But to play devil’s advocate.

 

1) Mahomes is in a great situation with a great offensive coach.  If you’re saying all air raid qbs don’t work out, couldn’t you say the same thing about sub 60% qbs from small conferences?  Not a big track of guys like Allen turning into stars at the next level.

 

2). Whaley traded down, picked EJ, used the pick he got to pick Kiko (runner up ROY), & then traded him for Shady.  That’s pretty damn impressive though EJ didn’t work out.  He never got another chance to pick a guy and was said to really like Watson.

I would say the answer to 1 is that MOST QBs dont work out regardless of system....just that Air Raid QBs learning to play under center seems to add to the stigma.  Josh Allen is a lottery ticket just like all these other guys.   I actually am not a fan of Josh starting the season.....would like to see AJM  start and bring Josh along slowly.

 

The problem with Whaley and the EJ thing is that was just a extremely poor qb draft....I feel like this is a extremely STRONG QB draft....I think a few of these guys are gonna stick and be QBs for their teams for a long time in this draft.   What did Whaley in was that EJ was simply not a good QB, we gave out contracts to players that we are still digging out of of...and the fact that we did not make the playoffs.

 

If Whaley's bills had made the playoffs?   He might still be here.

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7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

In all honesty it wont be that way....if this draft class is steller.....if Edmunds becomes a all pro player.....Beane will still be judged on Josh Allen

 

but

 

HOW he went about taking that swing should also be judged.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  I guess what I am saying is the Josh Allen pick will be judged very highly.

The "but" is in the other details.  The what if's could be endless.

 

What if he hits on many of his 3,4,5,6, and 7th rounder's both this year and next.

What if he drafts a "backup" QB in 2019 and that QB goes on to be very good.

What if the team is playing great and making the playoffs but Allen play is sub par.

 

If Allen is a bust, Pegula should look at the entire history before deciding if he stays or goes.

IMO

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1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this.  I guess what I am saying is the Josh Allen pick will be judged very highly.

The "but" is in the other details.  The what if's could be endless.

 

What if he hits on many of his 3,4,5,6, and 7th rounder's both this year and next.

What if he drafts a "backup" QB in 2019 and that QB goes on to be very good.

What if the team is playing great and making the playoffs but Allen play is sub par.

 

If Allen is a bust, Pegula should look at the entire history before deciding if he stays or goes.

IMO

All I am saying is the QB is the most important position on the field......Beane has to find his guy (I hope he already has)

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1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I would say the answer to 1 is that MOST QBs dont work out regardless of system....just that Air Raid QBs learning to play under center seems to add to the stigma.  Josh Allen is a lottery ticket just like all these other guys.   I actually am not a fan of Josh starting the season.....would like to see AJM  start and bring Josh along slowly.

 

The problem with Whaley and the EJ thing is that was just a extremely poor qb draft....I feel like this is a extremely STRONG QB draft....I think a few of these guys are gonna stick and be QBs for their teams for a long time in this draft.   What did Whaley in was that EJ was simply not a good QB, we gave out contracts to players that we are still digging out of of...and the fact that we did not make the playoffs.

 

If Whaley's bills had made the playoffs?   He might still be here.

By that’s what’s funny.  Whaley’s 2014 team that went 9-7 would have killed this past year’s 9-7 team that made the playoffs.

 

i think everyone has just decided that Whaley sucks ;not saying you) and McBeane is god.  They broke the drought so I get it to a point.  But that was a Jauron type season with a few more breaks.  I don’t trust their ability to know offense and think our head coach has too much power.  

 

They got got at least 2 more seasons but I think it is more than fair to question them if we got backwards and/or Allen isn’t good. JMO and I know I’m in the minority.

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2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

All I am saying is the QB is the most important position on the field......Beane has to find his guy (I hope he already has)

 

I hope he already has too!

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2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

By that’s what’s funny.  Whaley’s 2014 team that went 9-7 would have killed this past year’s 9-7 team that made the playoffs.

 

i think everyone has just decided that Whaley sucks ;not saying you) and McBeane is god.  They broke the drought so I get it to a point.  But that was a Jauron type season with a few more breaks.  I don’t trust their ability to know offense and think our head coach has too much power.  

 

They got got at least 2 more seasons but I think it is more than fair to question them if we got backwards and/or Allen isn’t good. JMO and I know I’m in the minority.

Shirley you understand that Bean and McD has the same 9-7 record while doing a hard reset on all the mistakes Whaley made? Whaley trades away future picks and spent in FA just to get to that same 9-7. Compile a list of starting offensive lineman that Whaley drafted? Is that entire list <> Dawkins? 

 

Beane is is getting so much love because he clearly has vision, the same vision and foresight that Whaley lacked. Hopefully he gets some picks right because then he is indeed the guy. 

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3 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

Agreed but like several posters have pointed out concussions are not good. Once you have one the likelihood of subsequent concussions increases dramatically. I'm happy that we're gambling on a guy with a shoulder injury in his past rather than the guy with multiple concussions.

 

Image result for concussion gif

 

Just to make sure that I understand your premise -  whenever anything good happened we just got lucky - Does that sum up your point correctly? 

 

Oh I don’t disagree there 

 

i was just pointing out that Allen has suffered  injuries as well 

 

as someone who has suffered From 10 concussions in my 15 years of football I understand how much they suck

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1 minute ago, Commonsense said:

Shirley you understand that Bean and McD has the same 9-7 record while doing a hard reset on all the mistakes Whaley made? Whaley trades away future picks and spent in FA just to get to that same 9-7. Compile a list of starting offensive lineman that Whaley drafted? Is that entire list <> Dawkins? 

 

Beane is is getting so much love because he clearly has vision, the same vision and foresight that Whaley lacked. Hopefully he gets some picks right because then he is indeed the guy. 

So much potential with this last draft......hope it ends up being great.

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Oh I don’t disagree there 

 

i was just pointing out that Allen has suffered  injuries as well 

 

as someone who has suffered From 10 concussions in my 15 years of football I understand how much they suck

The difference between Josh Allen's injuries is they were repairable.......concussions are not.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I would think that in the hopefully unlikely chance that Allen is a bust, Beane would understand it quickly enough to take another swing at getting a QB.  Not double down like Whaley did, trading away way too much in hopes that he can turn around a bad QB pick like EJ was.  There were some QBs available the year after EJ was drafted like Carr, Garoppolo & Bridgewater. If Whaley had shown any ability to see how bad EJ was after a year here, he could have corrected Nix's error.  If Allen fails & Beane sees it quickly enough, he gets a 2nd shot.  To me that means if Allen isn't showing enough, Beane would be wise to spend a 1st or 2nd on another QB in next year's draft.  Unconventional going after a QB a year after trading up & drafting one, sure, but better to hedge the bet than put all your eggs in the Allen basket if he hasn't shown enough to be entrenched as the 2019 starter.  It's not like teams haven't hedged on the franchise QB bet before.  Many years ago the Jets had 2 rookie QBs in camp, Joe Namath & Heisman winner John Huarte.  More recently in 1989 the Cowboys drafted Troy Aikman #1 overall, then spent a #1 in the supplemental draft on Steve Walsh.  Eventually they recouped the #1 by trading Walsh to the Saints when Aikman proved to be the franchise QB they were looking for.  Other hedges have included Washington trading a ton to St.Louis for RGIII at pick #2 overall, then taking Cousins in the 4th round.  The Redskins also hedged when they drafted Heath Schuler & Gus Frerrotte in the same draft.  In both cases the #1 pick bombed & the other guy ended up starting. 

Eagles have done it more than once and more recently. Broncos attempted to hedge it as well under Elway.

 good post

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