Seanbillsfan2206 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Maybe fans some fans such as yourself don't. Yes fans who defend their top pass rusher who has been under performing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said: Yes fans who defend their top pass rusher who has been under performing Underperforming based on what sack totals? Right back to where your poor take began. Run with it. Edited June 20, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 28 minutes ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said: He had as many sacks as Hughes last year while playing less games. I’d say he’s arguably our pass rusher at a much cheaper price than Hughes. I’d say they should trade Hughes ??♂️ I agree. Hughes has been outright bad for a bit now. Doesnt get enough pass rush and is bad vs the run. That combo equals a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Lawson is going to compete with Murphy at the left DE spot. This is going to be a great rotation on Defensice line. rodak is publishing click bait at this point until camp starts. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGun12TD Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 hour ago, eball said: I don't think we've seen the last of Shaq just yet. By all accounts he appears to have "gotten the message" so I'm anxious to see how he performs in camp and preseason. I agree! I hope he can put it together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said: Yes fans who defend their top pass rusher who has been under performing You do realize that getting sacks is about more than just beating your man, right? 1 minute ago, bobobonators said: I agree. Hughes has been outright bad for a bit now. Doesnt get enough pass rush and is bad vs the run. That combo equals a liability. This post is outright bad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 50 minutes ago, HappyDays said: When's the last time we had a GM who came right out and said this player isn't performing as well as we expect and he needs to do better? It's so refreshing. I agree, but that's easier to do when it wasn't a guy you brought into the organ-eye-zation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, bobobonators said: I agree. Hughes has been outright bad for a bit now. Doesnt get enough pass rush and is bad vs the run. That combo equals a liability. You are simply not correct. https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/jerry-hughes/5556 2017 PFF Grades Overall 85.0 #20 ED Elite High Quality Above Average Average Below Average Poor Rookie Limited Information 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, eball said: I agree, but that's easier to do when it wasn't a guy you brought into the organ-eye-zation. Good point. Let’s see how critical Beane is when one of his own flops. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 32 minutes ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said: He had as many sacks as Hughes last year while playing less games. I’d say he’s arguably our pass rusher at a much cheaper price than Hughes. I’d say they should trade Hughes ??♂️ 3 minutes ago, bobobonators said: I agree. Hughes has been outright bad for a bit now. Doesnt get enough pass rush and is bad vs the run. That combo equals a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I don't think Lawson is quaranteed a pot on this roster, given the acquisition of Trent Murphy and a few other free agents. He is competing for a roster spot, but I think he has decent odds of making it. Eddie Yarbrough was a good addition last season, but he doesn't have great athleticisim. I think he is in as much danger as Shaq. It depends not only on Trent Murphy making a successful comeback from his injury, but players like Odighizuwa and Mike Love, both of whome are pretty athletic. Odghizuwa in particular is close to elite in his athleticism. If he can get his athleticism to translate into production, he will be a key contributor to the team, and somebody else is going to have a tougher time making the cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said: You do realize that getting sacks is about more than just beating your man, right? This post is outright bad Thats fine, you can disagree. Fact is that Hughes is paid to get sacks. There are stretches of weeks where he doesnt get a single sack. He went 8 weeks last season without a sack. Hes supposed to be our pass rush specialist. And hes not great vs the run. I like Hughes but he disappears for long stretches of the season. Yeh he gets double teamed at times. Edited June 20, 2018 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, wppete said: Lawson is going to compete with Murphy at the left DE spot. This is going to be a great rotation on Defensice line. rodak is publishing click bait at this point until camp starts. I believe this to be true. Unless SL comes to camp and completely sucks, he at the very least provides decent depth at a critical position, and is still relatively cheap on his rookie deal. Given Murphy's injury history, I think it would be foolish to trade Shaq unless some team offered something ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, eball said: 8 weeks last season without a sack. In that 8 week span he had 3 tackles in a 5 week stretch. 3 total tackles, 0 sacks in 5 weeks. Thats good? Hes our highest paid player vs the cap. I expect more. Edited June 20, 2018 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, Commonsense said: Trent Murphy was wearing the non contact jersey for minicamp, is he expected to be a full go next month? I don’t see them cutting Lawson unless he falls further down the rotation, I could see them trading him though. Beane said in an interview that they were "probably being too conservative" with Murphy, but they preferred to let him go through minicamp without contact because they knew they had over a month off after that and they preferred to just let him fully recover and rehab rather thank risking a setback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, bobobonators said: 8 weeks last season without a sack. In that 8 week span he had 3 tackles in a 5 week stretch. 3 total tackles, 0 sacks in 5 weeks. Thats good? Hes our highest paid player vs the cap. I expect more. I equate your take to one of complaining that the Bills didn't throw to the TE enough while they were in a 4 WR/1 RB formation. Sacks are generally the result of overall line play -- the Bills had nothing on the opposite side of Hughes, and Kyle was essentially playing out of position. It was pretty easy for teams to take away the only threat on the Bills' D line. I can name approximately 31 NFL teams who would be willing to take Hughes off the Bills' hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 29 minutes ago, Azucho98 said: Yet another Whaley waste.... Another Whaley gem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said: You’re right it’s not only measured in sacks, but sacks are a pretty big one. I don’t care how many pressures a guy has, if your best pass rusher is only getting 4 sacks a year then they’re the ones that needs to step it up. Nobody talks about who has the most QB pressures in a season.... QB hurries and pressures is talked about. It's just not a traditional stat. Hughes doesn't have help which is why his sack numbers are low. We didn't have much push in the middle or at the other end spot. Murphy and Star should help. The coaching staff knows that they needed a lot of help on the DL which is why they addressed that early in FA. McBeane isn't afraid of getting rid of players, especially with bigger contracts. They didn't get rid of Hughes and the reason is he's the only one who gives them in anything in the pass rush. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Hughes hasn't gotten many sacks lately but the guy applies lots of pressures and stuffs the run well. He just needs to wrap up and finish off those opportunities, and if we can get him another effective pass rushing bookend, he will be back in double digits. He's been good for the Bills. Hopefully Shaq can become a quality contributor, I am certainly encouraged with what appears to be his commitment to the off season which often times is a prelude to higher performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KW95 - JA17 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Lots of Hughes fans on here. Let me be clear....He's not a game changer, he's not a great player. He's there. Dare I say, he's cost us more games than he's won? Go ahead, bring on the comments..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, bobobonators said: Thats fine, you can disagree. Fact is that Hughes is paid to get sacks. There are stretches of weeks where he doesnt get a single sack. He went 8 weeks last season without a sack. Hes supposed to be our pass rush specialist. And hes not great vs the run. I like Hughes but he disappears for long stretches of the season. Yeh he gets double teamed at times. He's paid to help his team win football games. Getting good pressure on the QB does that. I get that sacks a much more flashy, but players on the line, on both sides of the ball, are also dependent on the players next to them doing well. It that doesn't happen, you suffer because of it. Why do you think Hughes would get double teamed? Is it because he's good, or is it because his linemates weren't good? The answer is yes. Dareus was a bum last year, Kyle a shell of his former self, Washington not very good, Lawson under performing, Yarborough not the most athletic or refined. Hughes was more of a focal point for opposing offenses as a result. RBs and TEs would chip him over Yarborough or Lawson. That can be the difference between a sack and a hurry, and I'm sure it was on several occasions. Being the 20th best edge rusher out of 64, under those circumstances, pretty much renders your take as a bad one. Maybe he isn't the best against the run, but the defense as a whole should be this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 31 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Underperforming based on what sack totals? Right back to where your poor take began. Run with it. I know right. It’s weird judging a pass rusher by sacks. Kinda like judging a QB by how many TDs he throws. That would be crazy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said: I know right. It’s weird judging a pass rusher by sacks. Kinda like judging a QB by how many TDs he throws. That would be crazy... Not like that at all with so many different responsibilities and performance measureables for the respective positions. Hughes is a good player who's important to the success of the defense. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Not like that at all with so many different responsibilities and performance measureables for the respective positions. Hughes is a good player who's important to the success of the defense. Carry on. Yes like picking up bone head penalties all the time. Good day, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, Seanbillsfan2206 said: Yes like picking up bone head penalties all the time. Good day, sir. Yes. All the time. Another great take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Yes. All the time. Another great take. You seem angry. Do you want to talk about it? I’m here if you need someone to talk to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said: You seem angry. Do you want to talk about it? I’m here if you need someone to talk to Angry? That's pretty funny. I'm just pointing out the fallacies you keep posting regarding Hughes. Angry has nothing to do with anything, but nice deflection. Edited June 20, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Angry? That's pretty funny. I'm just pointing out the fallacies you keep posting regarding Hughes. Angry has nothing to do with anything, but nice deflection. Nice deflection?!? You’re delusional. I’m sorry that I expect more than 4 sacks from a guy that is the highest paid player on the team.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said: Yes like picking up bone head penalties all the time. Good day, sir. Hughes in 2017 had 6 penalties in 735 snaps. He took a penalty .008% of the time he was on the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, Seanbillsfan2206 said: Nice deflection?!? You’re delusional. I’m sorry that I expect more than 4 sacks from a guy that is the highest paid player on the team.... Yes. I'm delusional and you're proving how little you know about football. I'm sure Beane is on the phone now trying to trade Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said: Nice deflection?!? You’re delusional. I’m sorry that I expect more than 4 sacks from a guy that is the highest paid player on the team.... Why hasn't a Defensive Minded Coach, with his big contract, not get rid of him if he really is as bad as you're saying he is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Yes. I'm delusional and you're proving how little you know about football. I'm sure Beane is on the phone now trying to trade Hughes. I’m sorry. Maybe it’s just your personality. And yes the “you must not know anything about football” take. What is that thing that the point guard throws around? Can you help me out with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, Seanbillsfan2206 said: I’m sorry. Maybe it’s just your personality. And yes the “you must not know anything about football” take. What is that thing that the point guard throws around? Can you help me out with that? Another deflection attempt. Accusations of being delusional after your points have been proven off base is your personality it would seem. Sacks, it's only about the sacks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Why hasn't a Defensive Minded Coach, with his big contract, not get rid of him if he really is as bad as you're saying he is? I never said he was “bad”. Comparing his production to his salary and then comparing Lawson’s production to his salary tells me that at this very moment, Lawson is arguably more valuable to the team. Now if you asked me straight up who I’d pick to start at DE, without thinking salary cap, I’m taking Hughes all day long. Lawson is younger and cheaper. Now before 26livesinhismothersbasement started getting offended, I would have mentioned that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said: He's paid to help his team win football games. Getting good pressure on the QB does that. I get that sacks a much more flashy, but players on the line, on both sides of the ball, are also dependent on the players next to them doing well. It that doesn't happen, you suffer because of it. Why do you think Hughes would get double teamed? Is it because he's good, or is it because his linemates weren't good? The answer is yes. Dareus was a bum last year, Kyle a shell of his former self, Washington not very good, Lawson under performing, Yarborough not the most athletic or refined. Hughes was more of a focal point for opposing offenses as a result. RBs and TEs would chip him over Yarborough or Lawson. That can be the difference between a sack and a hurry, and I'm sure it was on several occasions. Being the 20th best edge rusher out of 64, under those circumstances, pretty much renders your take as a bad one. Maybe he isn't the best against the run, but the defense as a whole should be this year. I dont necessarily disagree with anything you say in theory however the reality is different. There were games where Hughes wasn’t even seen in the game. You don’t think Joey Bosa is double teamed? Who ranked him the 20th best pass rusher out of 64? Edited June 20, 2018 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said: Bills drafted a DE who played with the team for a long time. He was a real lunch pail guy who wasn’t very good but was always defended by the masses because he was “good against the run.” He just wasn’t a very good player. We don’t need more of those players. Why can't we have talented players with work ethic? It isn't always a one or the other proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, Seanbillsfan2206 said: I never said he was “bad”. Comparing his production to his salary and then comparing Lawson’s production to his salary tells me that at this very moment, Lawson is arguably more valuable to the team. Now if you asked me straight up who I’d pick to start at DE, without thinking salary cap, I’m taking Hughes all day long. Lawson is younger and cheaper. Now before 26livesinhismothersbasement started getting offended, I would have mentioned that No one but you is getting offended and you make that obvious. Another silly point as Hughes position on the team is not in question while Lawson has much to prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Another deflection attempt. Accusations of being delusional after your points have been proven off base is your personality it would seem. Sacks, it's only about the sacks! Another great take Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: No one but you is getting offended and you make that obvious. Another silly point as Hughes position on the team is not in question while Lawson has much to prove. Another great take 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) Yes it’s not all about the sacks; however, it’s a lengthy trend. Hughes had 4 sacks last season, 6 the season prior, and 5 the season before. If he’s not stout vs the run (which he’s not) and isn’t getting sacks, what’s he doing? Ah yes, creating “pressure” (except that’s not really happening either). He’s certainly not racking up tackle totals either. He must be a unicorn: he’s awesome, but doesn’t get sacks, and doesn’t get tackles. He’s had a whopping 2 forced fumbles and zero fumble recoveries over the last 31 games started. 5 sacks/season over the last 3 seasons is Chris Kelsay territory. Edited June 20, 2018 by bobobonators 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 45 minutes ago, KW95 said: Lots of Hughes fans on here. Let me be clear....He's not a game changer, he's not a great player. He's there. Dare I say, he's cost us more games than he's won? Go ahead, bring on the comments..... Not worth the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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