EXACTLY why I think Beane blew the '18 draft. -Rd. 1

[PrimeTime101]

2 minutes ago, TPS said:

Maybe you weren't a fan then? It's not a comment about Allen, rather one of the most heated debates this board has ever seen.

personally, I hope he is great, but I have no idea.

chill prime time,.

I wont chill on lazy comments like that. I have been a fan for all my life.. and YES I was around then.. Your post was lazy at best.

[TPS]

12 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I wont chill on lazy comments like that. I have been a fan for all my life.. and YES I was around then.. Your post was lazy at best.

I can't argue against stupid. Please see the definition of metaphor.

[prissythecat]

5 hours ago, SlamnSam said:

Well #34 we needed a freaking QB. So he spent a lot. Its time when went and got a QB. Yeah I know that last GM tried with EJ Manuel who couldn't throw a football over the offensive linemen's head. He was a terrible GM. I willing to bet your paycheck that this kid is much better than that last QB we had, which is now Cleveland's nightmare and certainly much better than EJ short arm. 

 

 

EJ had no shortage of arm strength .  He could easily throw the football over an OL .  Problem is that he also threw it over everyone else’s head.  I think you are referring to Tyrod ?

[TPS]

15 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Barring a !@#$ed up career ending injury I just don't see how Allen busts. How are other people not seeing what I'm seeing? The kid is humble and down to earth, high football IQ, crazy athletic ability, biggest arm in a decade, how can he fail? Fans have no idea what they're getting, you are going to be very very pleasantly surprised.

I hope so. Again, my comment is not related to Allen, it's that the debate about him is going to be divisive. 

[PrimeTime101]

2 minutes ago, TPS said:

I can't argue against stupid. Please see the definition of metaphor.

 

Right look up Imbecile or simpleton. Fits you just fine

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Epstein's Mother said:

 

I don't think your point here makes much sense.  Normally in a draft year with a lack of QB talent (perhaps 2019) guys tend to move up the board unnaturally.  That certainly wasn't true this year at all as teams had their pick of a number of talented players.

 

Exactly put him in last years class or next years class and he is competing to be the first QB taken right at the top of the draft - just like this year.

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, TPS said:

I hope so. Again, my comment is not related to Allen, it's that the debate about him is going to be divisive. 

I think that debate won't be a thing by the end of the year. Tyrod's gone, McCarron is a journeyman, Allen will come in midway through the season, fans will be calling for him.

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, dabills21 said:

Time will tell how this draft pans out. but one thing is for sure, you NEED a great qb to be the best in the NFL.  Josh has as much upside as any of the top Qbs this year, and when you analyze how his skill set compares to others in the NFL, he has the potential to be as effective as Big Ben or Carson Wentz down the line. 

 

He might not be the 'safest pick' of the draft, but NFL front offices understand the premium and how difficult it is to find franchise Qbs...it is the most difficult position to transition grom college to NFL.

 

All that said, if you think adding a defensive tackle is what it takes to put this franchise into super bowl contention, then you probably have bigger issues to sort out.  

 

As for Edmunds, go check what Minnesota fans thunk of Anthony Barr.  He and Trumaine are cut from the same cloth.

 

Just because a team NEEDS a great QB, doesn't mean that it can find one in the draft when it needs one ... and drafting a QB in the first round doesn't make him a better prospect, only a more expensive one.   The Bills essentially paid a BMW price for a Hyundai Elantra.  Allen has not demonstrated that he has the skill set to become even a modestly successful NFL QB much less either Roethlisberger and Wentz, both of whom dominated their collegiate conferences and became starters as rookies. 

 

8 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

You want a DT over a QB??? Really? We signed Lotulelei and we drafted a steal in Harrison Phillips. What QB could we of had at #96?

 

You would rather take an OT or a WR over a generational talent at LB? What QB will Wynn protect? Who will get Moore the ball?? Edmunds is the best LB in the draft and has the potential to be the best LB in the entire NFL.

 

That's simply bull ****.

 

8 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

Over time it will become obvious? Inherent in that statement is that it is not obvious at this moment. If it is not obvious at this moment, then how can you make declarations like "he is EJ 2.0" or "he can't play QB" as if they are fact. Seems all very self-contradictory and confusing.

 

Well, the last time I looked, it takes time, usually years, to determine if any draft pick is a keeper.  Of course, we know from past experience that it's not possible for the Bills regime du jour to whiff on a draft pick, especially when drafting a first round QB to excite the Bills fanbase, and especially a few days after the draft.

 

7 hours ago, mannc said:

I stopped reading at “disastrous”.  

 

Just like the little kid who puts his hands over his ears because he doesn't want to hear a scolding ...

[Victory Formation]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

That's simply bull ****.

 

 

Just like the little kid who puts his hands over his ears because he doesn't want to hear a scolding ...

Well, honestly, I sincerely question how much football you've watched. I mean, did you at least watch 25-30 minutes of highlight videos before you judge? You could at least do that. You're not entitled to an opinion until you at least do that.

 

Edmunds is 6'5 250lbs and has drawn comparisons to Brian Urlacher. Edmunds is not only the best LB in the draft, he has the ability to be better than Luke Kuechly.

 

 

[SoTier]

3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Well, honestly, I sincerely question how much football you've watched. I mean, did you at least watch 25-30 minutes of highlight videos before you judge? You could at least do that. You're not entitled to an opinion until you at least do that.

 

Edmunds is 6'5 250lbs and has drawn comparisons to Brian Urlacher. Edmunds is not only the best LB in the draft, he has the ability to be better than Luke Kuechly.

 

 

 

Especially since the Bills traded up to get him, and Beane has such an established record of recognizing collegiate talent.

[ALLEN1QB]

Dude Mel gave us an "A" what's wrong with you Debbie Downer? When JA starts lighting it up you will be the 1st one in line to buy his jersey. 

[TPS]

21 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

Right look up Imbecile or simpleton. Fits you just fine

You’re a perfect example of what I mean. You’re so livid thinking that I was criticizing Allen, that you can’t comprehend what I wrote.  

Have a good day sir, and go Billls!

[Victory Formation]

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Especially since the Bills traded up to get him, and Beane has such an established record of recognizing collegiate talent.

Wtf does that have to do with anything? 

 

Why character assassinate? This is Beane's first draft, how do you know exactly? That's right, you don't. Maybe if you took the 30-45 minutes a day that you spend posting nonsense here and instead watched some tape you'd know that this was a very good haul.

[BigPappy]

9 hours ago, #34fan said:

****LONG POST, but worth it, (i think)****

 

Some of you have gotten riled over my takes on these draft picks... You may think it's a matter of me simply  "not liking" these players, or "favoring" others which is total bullsh_t. I didn't like this draft because I saw a legit chance for this team to grab generational talent... The kids that get you to superbowls. -All OBD had to do, was NOT take the bait!  Justifiably, some of you are asking for an explanation, which I'll gladly provide in a round-by-round format.

 

Rd. 1

Josh Allen, 7th overall...Cost #12 #53 and #56 pick

In a word? -Disastrous. I didn't think any 2018 QB's could help BUF's situation, but I found this pick to be particularly bad. Not a single D1 program thought anything of this kid coming out of H.S.... In fairness, they could have missed something... Happens all the time.. Except no one liked him coming out of JC either! He ended up at WYO, but really wanted to play at Fresno State!

 

How bad did Allen want to play at Fresno State???

 

-Josh Allen wanted to play at Fresno State so bad, he wrote them a "pitch" letter throwing shade on a shorter, lighter, competitor. -It didn't work.

This is a kid, who in his BEST year as a D1 QB (2016) threw 28 TD's, AND led the Mountain West Conference with 15 picks! He's been a sub 60% passer at every playing level. -High School, JC, and College. He NEVER led WYO to a collegiate record better than 8-5! -Really? -Against such vaunted competition as San Jose State, and New Mexico?  Allen didn't throw as many picks (6) his final year, but his production as a passer also decreased dramatically from 3203 passing yards in '16 to 1812 passing yards in '17... I'll concede that sheer arm strength makes Allen an intriguing prospect, but ANY other year, and this kid is a mid-late 2nd round pick. However, the manipulative shield would have it's way. -With us, unfortunately.

 

Tremaine Edmunds, 16th overall... Cost #22 and #65

A pick I wasn't very fond of... Big guy? -Check. Fast guy? -Check. Tremendous athlete in general? -Check?  Personally, I don't think he diagnoses well enough (at his level)to merit the sacrifice... He frequently bit hard on fakes and mis-directions at the collegiate level... Plays won't get any easier to diagnose in the pros, and there's a chance he'll get exposed a lot... I can definitely see him as a passrusher ... Maybe stand-up 4-3 DE... My concern is that once these flaws are exposed, the coaching staff won't be able to effectively re-purpose his skill set.

 

What we missed out on.

We stay put at 12, there's a clear shot at the best DT prospect, I think, since Marcell Dareus. -Da'ron Payne(#13 to WAS)... Even if Beane was just looking at NFL draft grades, he would have seen a significantly higher one for this kid... "Pro-bowl potential" is what I read on his breakdown... But hey,  -f___k what the self-interested league thinks! Let's look at film, and this kid's production in games.-Which is NUTS...  If there's a D-Tackle in CFB with a quicker get-off I sure  haven't seen it! -You won't see a ton of sacks because Payne spent the last two season soaking up the run, and drawing double teams at NT so other guys could finish...  He simply couldn't be single-blocked at the collegiate level... Harrison Phillips is a VERY good player, but Payne is just a phenomenon for an interior DL. 

 

Had we we stayed put at 22, Stud Tackle Isaiah Wynn (#23 to NE) was waiting along with WR DJ Moore (#24 to CAR)  -Either pick helps this team win games from day one!  Wynn is an absolute mauler who finished a fabulous season (including the Senior Bowl) with a torn Labrum! This kid is going to keep your QB dry for YEARS, plus build a standard the rest of the line will have to follow! -BUF's O-line is in tatters after the departure of Wood, Glenn and Incognito...  However, If Wynn's injury scared you off, DJ Moore, had a skill set coveted by many NFL teams... Elite speed in pads, elusiveness, YAC for days... and reliable hands that consistently make difficult catches... In three years, this kid had 8 different QB's throwing to him including 3 true freshmen, and STILL was big-ten receiver of the year in 2017.  Who DOESN'T want that on their team?   -Brandon Beane. That's who.

 

Now flame your little hearts away.

 

 

 

 

 

  Your stating your opinion so flaming away is hardly necessary. You have an interesting take but I disagree with the overall thought on who to draft instead. The way things were going we could have and should have stayed at 12. I know Rosen was taken at 10 by Arizona but I don't think that would have happened if we didn't take Allen at 7. I am not an Allen fan, yes he has the tools, but like you said he has a poor record of winning and he din't play Div 1. I would have stood pat at 12 and Taken Rosen because had Allen been there at 10 I think Arizona would have taken him there instead of Rosen.

 

  Personally, I think Rosen will be the better player. Yes, he has a HUGE chip on his shoulder, he's very full of himself and by most accounts a bit of an a$$, but SO WHAT!! Jim Kelly was an arrogant a$$ who first refused to play here. Then when he did, in the beggining he was a full of himself partier with a HUGE chip on his shoulder and Rosen reminds me of him. does he or will he have his talent....maybe....maybe not. But he definitely was my first choice.

 

  As for the rest of the draft, I think as much as we need LB's i think OL was more important and should have grabbed one with that 2nd first rounder and without having trading up we would have had both 2nd rounders and the second 3rd rounder to brag more OL and LB talent and maybe another receiver.

[Mickey]

And thus begins the long campaign to run Josh Allen and Brandon Beane out of town. The use of pretentious phrases like "re-purpose his skill set" is the clearest sign the author doesn't know what he is talking about. You usually see that kind of thing in the military or other government bureaucracies where covering up a lack of intelligence by applying reams of technical jargon is a way of life. 

[Bob in STL]

So to be a GM all you have to do is read magazines and internet articles?  Your guessing on all of the playing we didn’t pick. 

 

Lets see in 3 years.  I’m guessing that Edmunds is a Star, our 3rd rounder is is in the DL rotation as a solid starter, we pull a starter and a few key contributors out of the rest.  So even if Allen is a bust,and yes a costly bust, the draft will grade ok. 

 

Part of of the problem with the Bills as a franchise is the unwillingness to draft qb’s.  We need to draft them until we find one.  Give Allen a chance.  

[billsfan1959]

20 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Well, the last time I looked, it takes time, usually years, to determine if any draft pick is a keeper.  Of course, we know from past experience that it's not possible for the Bills regime du jour to whiff on a draft pick, especially when drafting a first round QB to excite the Bills fanbase, and especially a few days after the draft.

 

(1) I don't think you can find a post I have ever written that portrayed this FO (or any other) as infallible. I am not sure why you would direct any insinuation of the sort in response to the post I wrote.

 

(2) Successes or failures of past draft decisions have no bearing on whether or not the draft selections of this year will be successful - the only bearing they have is on the psyche of the fans.

 

(3) Your first sentence is the point I made in my post: At this point in time, nobody knows which draft selections will be good or bad. Having an opinion one way or the other is fine. Expressing it as a declaration of fact is not. 

[ALF]

The only regret I have for last season is not tanking after passing on Mahomes and Watson. The Bills paid a bigger price for Allen and no playoff win. 

 

If Allen becomes a good starter then he is worth it. 

[McBean]

9 hours ago, #34fan said:

****LONG POST, but worth it, (i think)****

 

Some of you have gotten riled over my takes on these draft picks... You may think it's a matter of me simply  "not liking" these players, or "favoring" others which is total bullsh_t. I didn't like this draft because I saw a legit chance for this team to grab generational talent... The kids that get you to superbowls. -All OBD had to do, was NOT take the bait!  Justifiably, some of you are asking for an explanation, which I'll gladly provide in a round-by-round format.

 

Rd. 1

Josh Allen, 7th overall...Cost #12 #53 and #56 pick

In a word? -Disastrous. I didn't think any 2018 QB's could help BUF's situation, but I found this pick to be particularly bad. Not a single D1 program thought anything of this kid coming out of H.S.... In fairness, they could have missed something... Happens all the time.. Except no one liked him coming out of JC either! He ended up at WYO, but really wanted to play at Fresno State!

 

How bad did Allen want to play at Fresno State???

 

-Josh Allen wanted to play at Fresno State so bad, he wrote them a "pitch" letter throwing shade on a shorter, lighter, competitor. -It didn't work.

This is a kid, who in his BEST year as a D1 QB (2016) threw 28 TD's, AND led the Mountain West Conference with 15 picks! He's been a sub 60% passer at every playing level. -High School, JC, and College. He NEVER led WYO to a collegiate record better than 8-5! -Really? -Against such vaunted competition as San Jose State, and New Mexico?  Allen didn't throw as many picks (6) his final year, but his production as a passer also decreased dramatically from 3203 passing yards in '16 to 1812 passing yards in '17... I'll concede that sheer arm strength makes Allen an intriguing prospect, but ANY other year, and this kid is a mid-late 2nd round pick. However, the manipulative shield would have it's way. -With us, unfortunately.

 

Tremaine Edmunds, 16th overall... Cost #22 and #65

A pick I wasn't very fond of... Big guy? -Check. Fast guy? -Check. Tremendous athlete in general? -Check?  Personally, I don't think he diagnoses well enough (at his level)to merit the sacrifice... He frequently bit hard on fakes and mis-directions at the collegiate level... Plays won't get any easier to diagnose in the pros, and there's a chance he'll get exposed a lot... I can definitely see him as a passrusher ... Maybe stand-up 4-3 DE... My concern is that once these flaws are exposed, the coaching staff won't be able to effectively re-purpose his skill set.

 

What we missed out on.

We stay put at 12, there's a clear shot at the best DT prospect, I think, since Marcell Dareus. -Da'ron Payne(#13 to WAS)... Even if Beane was just looking at NFL draft grades, he would have seen a significantly higher one for this kid... "Pro-bowl potential" is what I read on his breakdown... But hey,  -f___k what the self-interested league thinks! Let's look at film, and this kid's production in games.-Which is NUTS...  If there's a D-Tackle in CFB with a quicker get-off I sure  haven't seen it! -You won't see a ton of sacks because Payne spent the last two season soaking up the run, and drawing double teams at NT so other guys could finish...  He simply couldn't be single-blocked at the collegiate level... Harrison Phillips is a VERY good player, but Payne is just a phenomenon for an interior DL. 

 

Had we we stayed put at 22, Stud Tackle Isaiah Wynn (#23 to NE) was waiting along with WR DJ Moore (#24 to CAR)  -Either pick helps this team win games from day one!  Wynn is an absolute mauler who finished a fabulous season (including the Senior Bowl) with a torn Labrum! This kid is going to keep your QB dry for YEARS, plus build a standard the rest of the line will have to follow! -BUF's O-line is in tatters after the departure of Wood, Glenn and Incognito...  However, If Wynn's injury scared you off, DJ Moore, had a skill set coveted by many NFL teams... Elite speed in pads, elusiveness, YAC for days... and reliable hands that consistently make difficult catches... In three years, this kid had 8 different QB's throwing to him including 3 true freshmen, and STILL was big-ten receiver of the year in 2017.  Who DOESN'T want that on their team?   -Brandon Beane. That's who.

 

Now flame your little hearts away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How long have you worked in the NFL? What team are you currently the GM for?

[All_Pro_Bills]

My take on the OP is they're taking a pessimistic view of Allen and Edmunds while being overly generous with evaluating of three other players. Wynn, Payne, and Moore.  Wynn is such a 'Stud' that the Patriots traded for Trent Brown (OT) with the 49ers during the draft.  What message does that send about their confidence level or your evaluation?  I'd say they're hedging their bets and Wynn's no sure thing to start.  Payne and Moore are good players but from past performance and athletic ability neither are what I would characterize as 'elite potential'.  But there's no guarantee I'm right either and maybe they develop to that level at some point in their careers.

 

I think the Bills look at Allen and Edmunds and see two physically gifted and intelligent players that have the personalities, desire, and potential to become elite and dominant players.   These guys have the highest ceilings and great potential maximized to its highest level of performance cannot be beaten.  I think Phillips can be a great player too.  Those are the types of players that build the core of your roster.  It's up to the coaches and management to bring out that potential.  At the moment I have faith they can.   

 

  

Edited April 30, 2018 by All_Pro_Bills