Jets just traded with Colts for #3 pick in first round

[jkirchofer]

11 hours ago, Joaquin1119 said:

We can always draft a QB next year. Hey you never know if AJ end up being our guy

If McCarron was the guy, he would have been drafted that way. 

[Nitro]

4 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Colts wanted more than what the Bills were able to offer them... a top ten ( almost top 5) pick. They couldn't offer what they don't have in their posession. This type of thing was always a possibility. A QB needy team with a higher pick than them got a deal done to move up. They have a few other options ; some pundits feel the NYG simply won't trade with the Jets. If true, it's not lost on the Bills, so trying for pick 3 made sense for Buffalo if trying to move in front of them. 

It was on Indy radio.   Rumors were they both firsts, a second and a first next season. before the Bills traded up.  The Bills could have made the deal butt it would have been steep

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, Nitro said:

It was on Indy radio.   Rumors were they both firsts, a second and a first next season. before the Bills traded up.  The Bills could have made the deal butt it would have been steep

Those were early rumors. We'll never really know what transpired yesterday/ today but Ballard said he wasn't looking to trade out of the top ten. The Jets may have been a late addition to the party , and that pick at 6 trumped what the Bills could offer this year. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 hours ago, Hurricane said:

Adam Schefter

 

@AdamSchefter

 

 

Huge trade: Jets acquired No. 3 overall pick from Colts for No. 6 overall pick, 37th overall pick, 49th overall pick and our 2019 2nd round pick

 

Mother #&$%@#$!!

 

We better swing a deal with the giants

 

 

[Jamie Muellers Ghost]

Manish Mehta column about Jets trade.

http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/sports/football/jets/maccagnan-job-line-jet-gm-bold-move-chase-qb-article-1.3880811#click=https://t.co/ftGS3Uktaf

 

[Boatdrinks]

3 minutes ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said:

Manish Mehta column about Jets trade.

http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/sports/football/jets/maccagnan-job-line-jet-gm-bold-move-chase-qb-article-1.3880811#click=https://t.co/ftGS3Uktaf

 

Interesting read , and pretty spot on. Jets were desperate and overpaid , but they had the pick at 6 and that bested anything Buffalo could do. Oh, Beane could have offered the entire draft or something . But realistically the Bills were the Colts bargaining chip , and once the Jets had satisfactorily upped their overpayment the Colts we're set. The Bills had no chance in this one. Interestingly , Mehta mentions that the Jets talked with the Browns. No mention of the Giants at 2, so there may be something to the theory that the Giants don't trade with the Jets. 

[The Frankish Reich]

It was a great offseason until today. No, all hope is not lost, but as we went into the offseason, success was defined as getting a long term solution at QB through free agency or through the draft. That boiled down to Kirk Cousins or Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Mayfield. And right now it's looking unlikely that we'll get any of them.

[Bills Pimpin']

Too much gloom and doom in this thread. The Jets way overpaid for the right to draft a player with the  #3 pick when they already had the #6 with very little draft capital and a very weak roster. On top of that the Jets organization has just, in the past week, given $15-$20 million to the QB position which everyone assumes and rightfully so that they will draft. The fact of the matter is, there is no guarantees in this league about players drafted. There is no sure thing. To mortgage 5 years of a franchises future by giving up 3 2nd round draft picks to move up 3 spots is irresponsible and ignorant, especially if you havent done the work to gather draft assets like the Bills have done in 1 short year. 

Beane will not overpay to move up to draft a player who is not a sure thing. It is the very same reasoning why he didn't give Sam Bradford $20 million and why he didn't give Keenum $20 million. They are not worth it. 

The team the Bills need to worry about after this trade is the Indianaplois Colts, not the NY Jets.

If Gettleman makes a fair offer, I expect Beane to move up, if he doesn't, I expect Beane to wait and see what unfolds.  In my opinion Beane thinks the Jets made a huge mistake today. It was a panic move and a bad one as it stands tonight. 

 

[Reed83HOF]

3 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I mean are you seriously arguing that we should have wanted 10 years of Matt Schaub? What a stupid argument.

57 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

It was a great offseason until today. No, all hope is not lost, but as we went into the offseason, success was defined as getting a long term solution at QB through free agency or through the draft. That boiled down to Kirk Cousins or Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Mayfield. And right now it's looking unlikely that we'll get any of them.

and we passed on Watson & Mahomes at a shot at those guys this year...

[thunderingsquid]

[BillsFan4]

I still feel good about getting a quality QB prospect this draft, whether we move up or stay where we are. 

 

One of the strengths of this draft is how deep the QB class is. 

 

 

 

And whether we move up or not, Beane and McDermott put us in a great position to take a gamble on a QB high in the draft this year. 

 

They have two 1sts, 2nds and 3rds. They can gamble and be a bit less gun-why on a QB in the 1st this year that maybe they woulld be more hesitant to pull the trigger on in a year with only 1 pick in each round.

Shoot, they could decide to take a shot on 2 QBs in this draft and it still wouldn't really hurt them, draft wise. 

 

[BillsFan4]

3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

It was a great offseason until today. No, all hope is not lost, but as we went into the offseason, success was defined as getting a long term solution at QB through free agency or through the draft. That boiled down to Kirk Cousins or Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Mayfield. And right now it's looking unlikely that we'll get any of them.

How do you figure that?

 

This didn't really change anything. The Jets at #6 were in front of us before today, too. They just moved up 3 more spots and took away 1 potential trade-up partner. 

 

 

 

If getting a one of the top 4 QBs is the Bills goal, We still have just as good shot at the #4 QB this year the way I see it. It's still mainly the Browns, Broncos and Jets in dont of us for QB (except now it goes Browns, Jets, Broncos).

 

I guess Miami is a potential wild card, but I think we could pretty easily find our way in front of them somewhere between 6-10 if they had to. Or maybe they move to 4 to jump the Broncos, or sell the farm for #2. 

[FearLess Price]

15 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

You don't know who they like, nor do I, nor does anyone else here.

 

Up till this morning everyone has liked what Beane has done.  And now because another team makes a trade Beane is a bum?

 

Come on.  He is in position to do whatever he thinks is the right thing for the franchise.  Let him do his job instead of assuming a bunch of stuff.

 

Have you watched tape?  Theres a reason most of us dont like Allen. GMs have the players they like,  info like that leaks and teams put out smoke screens to throw off trading opps. If the dirt sheets are saying Allen is one of the guys we like at #12, than hell yeah were can complain.  Theres much better prospects out there and you don't have to be a scout to see it on tape.

[BillsFan4]

4 hours ago, Jamie Muellers Ghost said:

Manish Mehta column about Jets trade.

http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/sports/football/jets/maccagnan-job-line-jet-gm-bold-move-chase-qb-article-1.3880811#click=https://t.co/ftGS3Uktaf

 

This is kind of what I said in another thread -

 

Maccagnan knows his job is on the line, and is acting with a bit of desperation. 

 

According to the article on the MMQB about this trade, he sold Woody Johnson on this plan over a year ago. To do whatever it takes to land one of the top 4 QBs in this draft. He bought some time on the job by selling Johnson on this plan. If he stayed at 6 at possibly missed out on all top 4 QBs, he's possibly fired before next season. 

 

You can't expect Beane or other GMs that have more job security to be willing to go toe to toe with a GM who's maybe willing to act a bit irrationally/recklessly (by overpaying) to keep his job. He's basically willing to gamble it all on any one of the top 3/4 QBs this year... (that's not the most sound plan IMO). 

 

Maccagnan gave up 4 top 50 picks to move up 3 spots. That's a hard offer to compete with, especially when you consider that the Colts will either still get a blue chip prospect, or have a chance to trade down a 2nd time with another QB needy team and stockpile even more assets. 

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, FearLess Price said:

 

Have you watched tape?  Theres a reason most of us dont like Allen. GMs have the players they like,  info like that leaks and teams put out smoke screens to throw off trading opps. If the dirt sheets are saying Allen is one of the guys we like at #12, than hell yeah were can complain.  Theres much better prospects out there and you don't have to be a scout to see it on tape.

Complain all you want.  None of have all the information the pro teams have and none of us are pro scouts.  And even they get it wrong with QBs in round 1 about half the time

 

We all come here to share opinions.  Great.  But it is arrogant to think you know better than guys who have done this for years.  It would be like Beane walking into my office and telling me he knows how to run a lab better than me because he saw a you tube video about it

[terrytate]

4 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Interesting read , and pretty spot on. Jets were desperate and overpaid , but they had the pick at 6 and that bested anything Buffalo could do. Oh, Beane could have offered the entire draft or something . But realistically the Bills were the Colts bargaining chip , and once the Jets had satisfactorily upped their overpayment the Colts we're set. The Bills had no chance in this one. Interestingly , Mehta mentions that the Jets talked with the Browns. No mention of the Giants at 2, so there may be something to the theory that the Giants don't trade with the Jets. 

 

There is no such thing as over payment.  That is a thing teams say when they are sitting on the sidelines watching other teams wheel and deal.  This is a qb league , and the jets and bills have not had a legitimate on in a long time.  They made the move we did not.  

[Klaista2k]

This really sucks but when you consider all our draft capital shouldn't we still be able to trade up to 1 or 2?

 

And we could always throw is next year's 1st if we really needed to...

 

 

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

There is no such thing as over payment.  That is a thing teams say when they are sitting on the sidelines watching other teams wheel and deal.  This is a qb league , and the jets and bills have not had a legitimate on in a long time.  They made the move we did not.  

They panicked.  The Bills didn't.  As you say there is no such thing as overpayment.  If true (and Inwould argue your point) the Bills can overpay to get ahead of them.

 

All the Jets did is guarantee they potentially get the 3rd QB on their board 

[Klaista2k]

40 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I still feel good about getting a quality QB prospect this draft, whether we move up or stay where we are. 

 

One of the strengths of this draft is how deep the QB class is. 

 

 

 

And whether we move up or not, Beane and McDermott put us in a great position to take a gamble on a QB high in the draft this year. 

 

They have two 1sts, 2nds and 3rds. They can gamble and be a bit less gun-why on a QB in the 1st this year that maybe they woulld be more hesitant to pull the trigger on in a year with only 1 pick in each round.

Shoot, they could decide to take a shot on 2 QBs in this draft and it still wouldn't really hurt them, draft wise. 

 

That was the same mentality we had in 2004 when we ended up with Losman.

 

We need to be aggressive or we'll never be a true contender. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Klaista2k said:

This really sucks but when you consider all our draft capital shouldn't we still be able to trade up to 1 or 2?

 

And we could always throw is next year's 1st if we really needed to...

 

 

Sure we can.  If we want to throw in picks from next year, Shady, etc.  

[terrytate]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They panicked.  The Bills didn't.  As you say there is no such thing as overpayment.  If true (and Inwould argue your point) the Bills can overpay to get ahead of them.

 

All the Jets did is guarantee they potentially get the 3rd QB on their board 

 

 

There look to be 4 franchise qb's this draft.  Good for the Jets to guarantee themselves 1 of them.  That makes 2 franchise qb's in the division now.  

[oldmanfan]

Just now, terrytate said:

 

 

There look to be 4 franchise qb's this draft.  Good for the Jets to guarantee themselves 1 of them.  That makes 2 franchise qb's in the division now.  

You don't know that though.  No one does.

 

as I have said continually, this comes down to Beane's thoughts about these QBs.  If he feels one of them is the answer he can go get him.  The Jets deal brings more clarity to where he needs to get to andbitbis oikelybhe needed to get to 1 or 2 anyway

[terrytate]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

You don't know that though.  No one does.

 

as I have said continually, this comes down to Beane's thoughts about these QBs.  If he feels one of them is the answer he can go get him.  The Jets deal brings more clarity to where he needs to get to andbitbis oikelybhe needed to get to 1 or 2 anyway

 

You're right.  There look to be 4 franchise qb prospects.    There is going to be so much competition at 4 that it makes no sense to make that huge of a jump from 4-12

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

You're right.  There look to be 4 franchise qb prospects.    There is going to be so much competition at 4 that it makes no sense to make that huge of a jump from 4-12

I think he's being smart if he waits till draft day to move.  Again it's whether he sees a guy as a guy he has to have.  He has the ammunition to swing a deal and can close out others by waiting.

[terrytate]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I think he's being smart if he waits till draft day to move.  Again it's whether he sees a guy as a guy he has to have.  He has the ammunition to swing a deal and can close out others by waiting.

 

There is only 1 draft spot available.  3 qb's are already off the board.  If you want one of the top 4 franchise qb prospects in this draft you have to get to 4.  Teams are already submitting offers to the browns.  I would not be Surprised to see that pick traded this week. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, terrytate said:

 

There is only 1 draft spot available.  3 qb's are already off the board.  If you want one of the top 4 franchise qb prospects in this draft you have to get to 4.  Teams are already submitting offers to the browns.  I would not be Surprised to see that pick traded this week. 

They can also move to 1 or 2.  

 

 

[terrytate]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They can also move to 1 or 2.  

 

 

No they can't.  Browns will draft their qb at 1 , and giants will draft their new franchise qb at 2.  If you honestly believe Barkley will go anywhere with the first two picks you are getting your hopes up.  And lets say one of those teams wants barkley, why trade with the bills  at 12 that takes you out of the barkley sweepstakes.  Denver could move up from 5-4 easily, and the browns still get barkley.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, terrytate said:

No they can't.  Browns will draft their qb at 1 , and giants will draft their new franchise qb at 2.  If you honestly believe Barkley will go anywhere with the first two picks you are getting your hopes up.  And lets say one of those teams wants barkley, why trade with the bills  at 12 that takes you out of the barkley sweepstakes.  Denver could move up from 5-4 easily, and the browns still get barkley.

Yes they can.  As you said no price is too small if it's the guy they want.  They can package picks this year, next year, throw Shady in, whatever if it's the guy they have to have.  I have not mentioned Barkley all day; I have no idea why you brought that up.

[terrytate]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Yes they can.  As you said no price is too small if it's the guy they want.  They can package picks this year, next year, throw Shady in, whatever if it's the guy they have to have.  I have not mentioned Barkley all day; I have no idea why you brought that up.

 

There is no way either of those two teams trade the top 2 picks.  Both are in need of a young franchise qb, the most important position in sports.  I would bet every penny i own that the browns and giants stay where they are.  

 

It is becoming increasingly clear that the only position in football that truly matters is the qb.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

There is no way either of those two teams trade the top 2 picks.  Both are in need of a young franchise qb, the most important position in sports.  I would bet every penny i own that the browns and giants stay where they are.  

 

It is becoming increasingly clear that the only position in football that truly matters is the qb.

Well, we will see

[alluro]

55 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

There is no way either of those two teams trade the top 2 picks.  Both are in need of a young franchise qb, the most important position in sports.  I would bet every penny i own that the browns and giants stay where they are.  

 

It is becoming increasingly clear that the only position in football that truly matters is the qb.

 

3 of the 4 Quarterbacks that made the championship games this year were Blake Bortles, Nick Foles, and Case Keenum. Build a solid team and you can win with any competent player at QB. I am going to be ecstatic if the Bills can get Lamar Jackson at 12 as I feel he is the best player in this draft anyway. 

[terrytate]

Just now, alluro said:

 

3 of the 4 Quarterbacks that made the championship games this year were Blake Bortles, Nick Foles, and Case Keenum. Build a solid team and you can win with any competent player at QB. I am going to be ecstatic if the Bills can get Lamar Jackson at 12 as I feel he is the best player in this draft anyway. 

 

1. If getting to the championship game is your idea of success then that is sad.

2. Foles had to play perfect just to beat brady.  And Foles away from jeff Fisher is a pro bowl qb, who has won a probowl mvp, thrown 7 touchdown passes in a season, and has had a record setting season .   So big difference between foles and the other qb's that sh** the bed when it was time to shine. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, alluro said:

 

3 of the 4 Quarterbacks that made the championship games this year were Blake Bortles, Nick Foles, and Case Keenum. Build a solid team and you can win with any competent player at QB. I am going to be ecstatic if the Bills can get Lamar Jackson at 12 as I feel he is the best player in this draft anyway. 

 

Youre nuts.

[alluro]

10 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

1. If getting to the championship game is your idea of success then that is sad.

2. Foles had to play perfect just to beat brady.  And Foles away from jeff Fisher is a pro bowl qb, who has won a probowl mvp, thrown 7 touchdown passes in a season, and has had a record setting season .   So big difference between foles and the other qb's that sh** the bed when it was time to shine. 

The second season in Chip Kelly's offense and Foles came back down to earth -- so much so that the Eagles, Rams, and Chiefs all didn't see a 'pro bowl qb' in Foles. I would argue making the Pro Bowl isn't that significant anyway as a number of mediocre talents at the position have been in that game. 

 

Tom Brady is arguably the best player to ever play. The fact a journeyman like Foles was able to outplay him on the biggest stage in sports is telling.

 

And because only one team can win the superbowl, getting to a championship is a great season. If you build a team capable of getting that far, all it takes is a few things to break right in your direction and you can win it all. So yes, getting to a championship game is a successful season in my book. 

19 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Youre nuts.

Beane has been extremely positive in his public statements about Jackson, even comparing him to Cam Newton. Let those other teams sell the farm while we get the best player in the draft anyway. 

[terrytate]

Just now, alluro said:

The second season in Chip Kelly's offense and Foles came back down to earth -- so much so that the Eagles, Rams, and Chiefs all didn't see a 'pro bowl qb' in Foles. I would argue making the Pro Bowl isn't that significant anyway as a number of mediocre talents at the position have been in that game. 

 

Tom Brady is arguably the best player to ever play. The fact a journeyman like Foles was able to outplay him on the biggest stage in sports is telling.

 

And because only one team can win the superbowl, getting to a championship is a great season. If you build a team capable of getting that far, all it takes is a few things to break right in your direction and you can win it all. So yes, getting to a championship game is a successful season in my book. 

 

1. As a Nick foles fan , there was more to it than just him falling back to earth that 2nd year.  There were huge changes made that were disastrous on gm chip kellys part. 

2. Foles did not outplay brady.  Brady threw for a superbowl record , and he didn't punt once.  

3. Look at the previous qb's in the super bowl the past 11 years.  only 3 will not make the hall of fame.   But keep talking yourself into legitimizing journeymen qb's.

[alluro]

11 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

1. As a Nick foles fan , there was more to it than just him falling back to earth that 2nd year.  There were huge changes made that were disastrous on gm chip kellys part. 

2. Foles did not outplay brady.  Brady threw for a superbowl record , and he didn't punt once.  

3. Look at the previous qb's in the super bowl the past 11 years.  only 3 will not make the hall of fame.   But keep talking yourself into legitimizing journeymen qb's.

Foles completed a higher percentage of his passes, didn't turn it over, and has the same 3 passing TDs so you can argue he did. 

 

More importantly, I won't argue with you that having a great QB sets you up for success more than not having one. That seems pretty obvious, but if you look at those QBs over the past 11 years that are hall of famers, where were they drafted? Sure, you have the mannings at the top of the draft, but you also have your Big Ben's at the 11th pick, your Drew brees's in the second round, Tom Brady in the 6th round, Kurt Warner undrafted, Russell Wilson in the 3rd round, Aaron Rodgers in the LATE first round. 

 

Buffalo has the 12th pick. 

[terrytate]

Just now, alluro said:

Foles completed a higher percentage of his passes, didn't turn it over, and has the same 3 passing TDs so you can argue he did. 

 

More importantly, I won't argue with you that having a great QB sets you up for success more than not having one. That seems pretty obvious, but if you look at those QBs over the past 11 years that are hall of famers, where were they drafted? Sure, you have the mannings at the top of the draft, but you also have your Big Ben's at the 11th pick, your Drew brees's in the second round, Tom Brady in the 6th round, Kurt Warner undrafted, Russell Wilson in the 3rd round, Aaron Rodgers in the LATE first round. 

 

Buffalo has the 12th pick. 

 

Foles threw an interception.  Brady just had the greatest super bowl qb performance ever and still lost which is crazy.   The Rodgers draft was weird, everyone knew that he was either going number 1 or he was going to slide.  But regardless , yes you can find qb's outside the top of the draft.  And the bills clearly have been successful with that strategy.....

[IndyMark]

2 hours ago, terrytate said:

 

There is no such thing as over payment.  That is a thing teams say when they are sitting on the sidelines watching other teams wheel and deal.  This is a qb league , and the jets and bills have not had a legitimate on in a long time.  They made the move we did not.  

 

I think the Saints fans, circa the Ditka era (debacle) would like a word with you.  Or, if you recall the Dallas / Minnesota Herschel Walker trade, I feel the Vikings fans would think otherwise.  I get the passion of forfeiting most of your draft capital if (a) there was an Andrew Luck available or (b) QB is the only position of need on the team.  However, neither are true here in 2018 with the Buffalo Bills.

 

So, yes, there is a thing of over payment.  Absolutely.

[alluro]

5 minutes ago, terrytate said:

 

Foles threw an interception.  Brady just had the greatest super bowl qb performance ever and still lost which is crazy.   The Rodgers draft was weird, everyone knew that he was either going number 1 or he was going to slide.  But regardless , yes you can find qb's outside the top of the draft.  And the bills clearly have been successful with that strategy.....

Even moving up is no guarantee at getting one of those guys. It could be a 2006 type of draft where Leinart, Cutler, and Young are all "franchise" players and none of them come close to reaching that status. I'd rather be more conservative and build a solid enough team where anyone (Foles, Keenum, Bortles) can take Buffalo to a championship game than mortgaging the future on a player this year. Ironically, I was a huge Pat Mahomes fan last year and was extremely disappointed when Buffalo traded out of that pick. I think that will come back to bite us. 

 

But the Bills organization over the time you are referencing has not operated under the same regime, or been the same autonomous unit. How many coaches and GMs have they gone through? They've even changed ownership. I look at the Beane/McD era as a new chapter and will judge them based on that. But as someone who feels like Lamar Jackson could be the best player in this draft, I'm content to stay at 12 and take him there.

[SoTier]

So, the Bills "clearly had a QB identified LAST YEAR" and started wheeling and dealing in order to get him as early as the 2017 draft?  Is that the manure you're trying to shovel?  Do you also believe in the Easter Bunny, Bigfoot, and Zombies? 

 

The fact is that from the time the Bills started collecting draft capital with the 2017 draft and today, the FO has been entirely restructured from the GM down to the scouts.  Virtually all of the pro and collegiate player personnel evaluation staff has been replaced, except maybe the admin assistants and janitors.  Why would ANY evaluations of any player made by former employees continue to guide the current administration when it's pretty clear that the current administration has far different requirements and standards?  

 

The Bills started collecting draft capital because they need it to build a winning team, not because they're fanboys of some over-hyped college player.