FeelingOnYouboty Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 33 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Footwork can be taught, arm strength cannot. Allen > Rosen. Why are we pretending like Josh Rosen doesn't have a great arm? He can't throw it 70 yards like Allen but when is anyone ever throwing it that far in the NFL? Such a silly thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 32 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Footwork can be taught, arm strength cannot. Allen > Rosen. Arm strength? Ball Placement > Arm Strength. And Ball Placement is one of Allen's biggest issues because his arm is so strong he doesn't know when to dial it down. This was evident at Wyoming, at the Senior Bowl throughout the week in practice and in the Senior Bowl game and it was also evident at the combine on the drill where the WR's had to tap their toes on the sideline. To his credit in the other drills he turned things around and in the 2nd half o the Senior Bowl game he had some nice zip on some passes but there is not enough here to make me feel comfortable at all trading draft capital away and selecting him in the top picks. If I were a team that had the idea of sitting him for two years then fine, I'd take him, probably not in the first five picks. But we are not that team. We are looking to upgrade the QB position via the draft. Allen would not be an upgrade right now and who knows when he'd be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Detective Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatonka68 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: Why are we pretending like Josh Rosen doesn't have a great arm? He can't throw it 70 yards like Allen but when is anyone ever throwing it that far in the NFL? Such a silly thing. Winds at New Era Field are not for the weak armed. Rosen arm is not bad, but Allens is the best. Allen > Rosen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Winds at New Era Field are not for the weak armed. Rosen arm is not bad, but Allens is the best. Allen > Rosen. Silly boy lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman1876 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 So all he needs to do is learn footwork, mechanics, decision making and how to read a defense how hard could that be. 9 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Winds at New Era Field are not for the weak armed. Rosen arm is not bad, but Allens is the best. Allen > Rosen. Not sure if serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 10 hours ago, Yeezus said: Adjusted completion percentage for dropped passes, throwaways & passes where QB was hit • Rosen - 68.9% • Mayfield - 68.4% • L. Jackson - 64.7% • Darnold - 59.8% • J. Allen - 52.6% Source: https://twitter.com/alex_valdezmhh/status/971839131981623298?s=21 Season-long, top draft QBs, % of aimed passes deemed catchable (min 200 atts) Baker Mayfield 84.1% (best in NCAA) Josh Rosen 77.9% Lamar Jackson 77.6% Sam Darnold 74.1% Josh Allen 70.8% (92nd out of 100) NCAA AVG: 76.0% Source: https://twitter.com/TJCarter26/status/948911273877606400?s=09 PFF Drop Rates - Sam Darnold (6.81%); Josh Allen (7.84%); Baker Mayfield (9.49%); Josh Rosen (11.01%); Lamar Jackson (12.04%) Source: https://twitter.com/PFF_Neil/status/955928657129889792 Basically, everyone was blaming his bad WR's, but in fact he had one of the lowest drop rates out of all top prospects. Also everyone likes to mention how his best trait is his ability to escape pressure and make plays, well he is the worst top prospect in terms of that and the stats are literally right in your face to show you. everyone says Josh Rosen has a noodle arm and can't throw under pressure, yet he is by far the best QB in the draft at it. Why? Because he has good mechanics, footwork, and is deadly accurate...all things Allen isn't. He had one of the lowest "deemed catchable" percentages, right? What is "catchable" ? Honest question. Who decides that? If you have crap WRs who aren't getting to where the ball is being thrown, is that the QBs fault? I'd like to see some stats on the wr "catch zones" for his guys. Like obj and Larry Fitzgerald catch anything within 10 yards of them, but a subpar we won't even get near the ball. Stats don't mean everything. I think Allen is raw and needs work, but could be a beast QB. He also could be a pile of crap. He has a ridiculous ceiling, and a very low floor. He's a risk. I'm not advocating for or against him, I'm just saying stats can be cherry picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Josh Allen is horrible. Guys like him have no track record of success in the NFL over the past 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 54 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Footwork can be taught, arm strength cannot. Allen > Rosen. You’re correct it can’t be taught, it can be developed though...Aaron Rodgers was not known for having a strong arm coming out of Cal, now he’s got one of the strongest in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That_Guy Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Eh, his highlight reels look good and his lowlight reels look like crap. i'm not a scout so i'll let them do their job and support whatever guy we get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 10 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Stay away from Josh “JP” Allen JP might have been a lot better if he was bigger, stronger and had an extra 10mph of ball velocity like Allen has over him. I'm not sold on Allen by any means but JP was not tall in the pocket and his strong arm would turn to a noodle on the run or off his back foot.........like most QB's. Not hard to see why some team will fall in love with Allen's physical talent...........he is Big Ben on the hoof without all the weird rapey stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 10 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Played nobody. When he did play a power 5 school he sucked. When and who has a sub 60% QB in college succeeded in NFL? Brett Favre and Jim Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said: Brett Favre and Jim Kelly You can add Dan Marino to that list as well. But all those guys played in a totally different era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman1876 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said: Brett Favre and Jim Kelly The last QBs to never achieve a 60% season in college and still succeed in the NFL playedin the 1980’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BrooklynBills said: Stafford I think if you put these other QBs in the Wyoming offense and asked them to do what they asked Allen to do then you would see similar completion % numbers. Rosen would get me the most excited. I actually think Allen is my number 2. Then maybe Darnold although I would be worried about the extremely simplified offense that he ran. Mayfield scares me because his numbers are inflated by the scheme and his arm strength on the short throws is worse than the other 3. Everyone says Mayfield throws with anticipation, but when you watch some film of Mayfield you will see him double clutch and wait for guys to come open on the in breaking short stuff which won't work at the next level. Mayfield is not the dual threat nor does he have the arm talent of Russell Wilson so i don't see the appeal there. Its not about hiw offense. It is about his decision making his scatter shot ball placement see i can look at just a QB. If Wentz didnt happen Allen would be a mid round pick 16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: JP might have been a lot better if he was bigger, stronger and had an extra 10mph of ball velocity like Allen has over him. I'm not sold on Allen by any means but JP was not tall in the pocket and his strong arm would turn to a noodle on the run or off his back foot.........like most QB's. Not hard to see why some team will fall in love with Allen's physical talent...........he is Big Ben on the hoof without all the weird rapey stuff. Yeah Bigger, Stronger and 10mph better make up for the horrible accuracy and ball placement lol. And allen is no where near as accurate as Ben was. 12 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said: Brett Favre and Jim Kelly Going WAY WAY back arent we. Ok in Modern Football. How is that Edited March 15, 2018 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Its not about hiw offense. It is about his decision making his scatter shot ball placement see i can look at just a QB. If Wentz didnt happen Allen would be a mid round pick Yeah Bigger, Stronger and 10mph better make up for the horrible accuracy and ball placement lol. And allen is no where near as accurate as Ben was. Going WAY WAY back arent we. Ok in Modern Football. How is that You asked a question, and I answered. Relax. Be specific from the jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) IF Josh Allen is the Pick then I just would like to see what happens if a QB is tucked away and allowed to work on his own game. he won’t be distracted by weekly prep as a starter, or going to school and what not. His job for 1 season and maybe 2 would be solely building his own game. then when he goes in, IF it works, Buffalo then has a QB until 2034. Edited March 15, 2018 by RalphWilson'sNewWar Addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 10 hours ago, Nihilarian said: Stafford, Cutler, Tyrod Taylor all had comp% below 60% in college and improved once they got to the NFL. It doesn't always work that way though. Allen played on a bad team in 2017 and was running for his life most of the time with receivers that dropped a lot of passes. Daniel Jeremiah's top 50 players in this year's draft and Allen is listed at 14th behind Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield. Of those three listed the only one I like is Mayfield. All of them have warts IMO and Allen is no different. Rosen has durability issues and Darnold has fumbling issues. RANK 14 Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming Allen has ideal size, arm strength and mobility. At Wyoming, he split time underneath and in the shotgun. He has quick feet in his setup and a smooth, fluid release. He's at his best driving the ball to the outside. He generates outrageous velocity and can squeeze the ball into very tight windows. He must improve on touch throws, but he has shown the ability to change ball speed and throw with loft. He needs to throw with more anticipation and there are times where he really locks onto his initial read, which can lead to pass breakups and turnovers. While he has room to improve on his overall ball placement, there were numerous dropped balls by his receivers in every game I studied. Allen's combination of athleticism and strength allows him to avoid free rushers and shake off tacklers. He's an aggressive runner and he's been effective on designed QB runs as well as scrambles. Allen isn't a finished product, but he offers unlimited upside, provided his drafting team exercises patience. I stopped reading right there. All I need is another QB that can't throw receivers open and locks into one in particular. Unfortunately I have a bad feeling he is the one OBD has their eye on. High ceiling, canon arm and his physical traits are appealing. And we just acquired the right kind of QB to bring him along while he takes in the pro game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 19 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said: You can add Dan Marino to that list as well. But all those guys played in a totally different era. If they throw a lot, which Marino and Favre did, what does era matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 The GM who drafts Josh Allen with a first round pick will be fired in three years. If you're not accurate in college football, you're not going to magically become accurate in the NFL. He's not even close to that 60% metric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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