How to build the Bills into a Champion

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Trivia time:  Does anyone know why the Rams and Eagles had a massive turn around almost over night?

 

Hint:  Answers are NOT Goff or Wentz.

 

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Answer:  Offensive Line.  Rams offensive line went from worst in the league to 3rd best this past year after making major adjustments.  Gurley went from below average to NFL MVP candidate.  Nick Foles came in and showed just how good the Eagles OL is and why it makes Wentz job so much easier.   Foles behind a bad OL was atrocious for 3 of his 4 years as as starting QB.  Foles comes in behind the NFLs best OL and wins the Super Bowl. 

 

Buffalo Bills pass protection is utterly atrocious.  If not for TT's escapability and athleticism, it would have finished near or at bottom of the NFL.  Peterman was swallowed whole behind this line, and any team willing to pressure TT rather than spy and defend against the run got right through the OL at will.  

 

Assuming the next Bills QB isnt as athletic as TT, this OL will get them killed.  And it only got worse with losing Wood.  The only rookie who can maybe function behind this sad pass protection group is Lamar, and even though Lamar is one of several rookies I do like, I dont expect the Bills to take him.  Anyone else, Cousins included if we landed him, is going to get crushed unless we significantly address the OL.  

 

So any thread about building the Bills into a Champion that doesn't also include seriously addressing one of the worst and weakest parts of this team in pass protection is not accurate IMO.

 

 

The answers aren't 100% Goff or Wentz, but they're like 75% Goff/Wentz and 25% offensive line IMO. The single biggest contributing factor in those two teams' success last season was the QB elevating his play. That has some, probably a lot, to do with a better line but to act as if their respective play at quarterback wasn't the main reason for the Eagles and Rams being so good is missing the point in today's NFL I think.

 

The aforementioned Cowboys went backward with a great offensive line this year because teams started exploiting much of Prescott's weaknesses (especially his reliance on play action) which allowed them to focus on stopping Elliot. The Browns have a very good line but can't do anything due to their bad quarterback play. If you have to have one or the other, in terms of instant results it's QB every time.

[SoCal Deek]

Well....I have to admit I'm impressed.  This Thread is a pretty creative way of disguising the typical "I want the Bills to draft this dude"  dialogue.  Really clever hiding it in way do in your to do list.

[TheFunPolice]

One way: stack the roster with talent and keep finding experienced coaches at every level. Look at the guy we just hired as WR coach. Great move to add experience!

 

The Eagles are absolutely stacked and were also stacked with top-notch coaches until they got picked apart a bit there after the SB. Still a lot of experience and skill on that coaching staff.

 

The Bills need to do the same: stack the roster. Keep guys and add more. Draft a LT AND keep Glenn. Then sign a tackle too. Rinse and repeat. The Eagles had Blount and then traded for Ajayi. They have like 15 receiving threats between TE and WR. Their DL rotation goes 7 deep with guys who would start on this team.

 

The Eagles beat NE because they were the better team all over the place except for QB, but the Eagles QB played the game of his life to keep up with Brady. But the Eagles roster was superior to NE at every level. When your team is so good that it can just line up and beat the other guys it goes a long way.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Eagles beat NE because they were the better team all over the place except for QB, but the Eagles QB played the game of his life to keep up with Brady. But the Eagles roster was superior to NE at every level.

 

 

Well that's pretty frightening!  The Eagles were better at 'every level' and yet they still needed a late strip sack and a batted down Hail Mary to beat Tom Brady.  We are DOOMED!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Two #1s in consecutive years are NOT the same value as two #1s in the same year. People keep missing that fact. 

 

No I get it.  But it's still two late-round #1s and even correcting for them being in the same year, it just seems out of scope with what people have had to give to move up just a few slots.  I mean, it cost us a 1st and a 4th the following year to just swap up 5 spots.  Swapping up 19 spots seems like both firsts and at least a first the subsequent year might be involved.

 

16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

The answers aren't 100% Goff or Wentz, but they're like 75% Goff/Wentz and 25% offensive line IMO. The single biggest contributing factor in those two teams' success last season was the QB elevating his play. That has some, probably a lot, to do with a better line but to act as if their respective play at quarterback wasn't the main reason for the Eagles and Rams being so good is missing the point in today's NFL I think.

 

The aforementioned Cowboys went backward with a great offensive line this year because teams started exploiting much of Prescott's weaknesses (especially his reliance on play action) which allowed them to focus on stopping Elliot. The Browns have a very good line but can't do anything due to their bad quarterback play. If you have to have one or the other, in terms of instant results it's QB every time.

 

I thought the stopping of Elliot was performed on behalf of the Cowboy's opponents by Roger Goodell.  At least for like, 1/3 of the season with questions on how effective the stress and distraction of appeals and being out of "game shape" rendered the rest.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No I get it.  But it's still two late-round #1s and even correcting for them being in the same year, it just seems out of scope with what people have had to give to move up just a few slots.

 

I am not saying it gets the deal sealed. I am just suggesting that the Bills will need fewer additional sweeteners than the Eagles or Rams needed for their trades up. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Here is one nobody will like. But it has to be something nobody in Buffalo will like, otherwise teams won't hand over a top pick! Nobody is going to be enticed by including Cordy Glenn and his giant cap number. (Unless we eat a bunch of it that I am not aware of)

 

We eat a bunch of it.  If he's on the roster the 2nd day of the new league year, we eat his roster bonus and his salary becomes $9.25M for the next 3 years.

That's like #15 for LTs in the league, and he's arguably better than that if healthy.

 

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

If they wont take Glenn fine. 

2018 - 21,22 second and 3rd 

2019 - First and 2nd 

that will get you to too. 

 

That's about what I think it would take.

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I think there would be other compensation tied in case the physical is failed.

 

Well, but think about how that would work.  If you offer someone compensation they consider truly enticing, wouldn't that encourage them to go for the compensation instead of the player?

 

Beane: "we'll trade you Cordy Glenn, our #21, our #22, our 2018 2nd and 3rd, and our 2019 2nd for your #2 pick this year"

Gettleman: "Good, but Glenn just had surgery - what if he's not healthy?"

Beane: "we'll give you more compensation - IF Glenn fails, #21, #22, our 2018 1st and 3nd, and our 2019 2nd for your #2 "

Gettleman: "I'm sorry to tell you Glenn failed our physical"

Beane: "but you've only looked at his picture!"

Gettleman: "I picture him failing."

 

[GoBills808]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No I get it.  But it's still two late-round #1s and even correcting for them being in the same year, it just seems out of scope with what people have had to give to move up just a few slots.  I mean, it cost us a 1st and a 4th the following year to just swap up 5 spots.  Swapping up 19 spots seems like both firsts and at least a first the subsequent year might be involved.

 

 

I thought the stopping of Elliot was performed on behalf of the Cowboy's opponents by Roger Goodell.  At least for like, 1/3 of the season with questions on how effective the stress and distraction of appeals and being out of "game shape" rendered the rest.

[sleeby]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

We got the 2nd 1st round pick because we traded down for a team wanting their QB.

I have no problem (more so, I think Beane and McDermott also) would use the 2-1st's to move up to get "their guy".

Anything more starts to get problematic.

 

I'm also fine with using both first round picks to move up if it gets what they want but some of the scenarios above are horror show.  Like a serious gambling problem for a father horror show.

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

6 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I was on board right up until Bo Scarbrough

 

 

If you hold your thumb up to the screen you can fix that.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I would do back flips if this really happened. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Trivia time:  Does anyone know why the Rams and Eagles had a massive turn around almost over night?

 

Hint:  Answers are NOT Goff or Wentz.

 

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

 

Answer:  Offensive Line.  Rams offensive line went from worst in the league to 3rd best this past year after making major adjustments.  Gurley went from below average to NFL MVP candidate.  Nick Foles came in and showed just how good the Eagles OL is and why it makes Wentz job so much easier.   Foles behind a bad OL was atrocious for 3 of his 4 years as as starting QB.  Foles comes in behind the NFLs best OL and wins the Super Bowl. 

 

Buffalo Bills pass protection is utterly atrocious.  If not for TT's escapability and athleticism, it would have finished near or at bottom of the NFL.  Peterman was swallowed whole behind this line, and any team willing to pressure TT rather than spy and defend against the run got right through the OL at will.  

 

Assuming the next Bills QB isnt as athletic as TT, this OL will get them killed.  And it only got worse with losing Wood.  The only rookie who can maybe function behind this sad pass protection group is Lamar, and even though Lamar is one of several rookies I do like, I dont expect the Bills to take him.  Anyone else, Cousins included if we landed him, is going to get crushed unless we significantly address the OL.  

 

So any thread about building the Bills into a Champion that doesn't also include seriously addressing one of the worst and weakest parts of this team in pass protection is not accurate IMO.

 

 

 

 

Alpha, normally when anybody waxes poetic about O Line you are always going to get a thumbs up from me.

 

In the back of my mind their is always that thought of, 'the hell with it, pick OL with one out of every first two picks for a few years and fill in everything else around that."

 

 

[Domdab99]

6 hours ago, PolishDave said:

 

How about this:

1) Build the best offensive line in the NFL through player acquisition and coaching

2) Build a top 10 all around defense

3) Acquire an elite QB by any means possible.

4) Adopt an offensive mentality of blitzkrieg in terms of play calling

 

Then enjoy your team being a powerhouse contender in the AFC year after year after year

 

You might as well have said, “just win games.”

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

I respectfully but strenuously disagree. The two most important players on the mentioned teams are the qbs. As I stated before just because you get the qb that doesn't mean that you stop adding to the roster. In the case with the Eagles Foles was exceptional in the playoffs. But during the season the reason the Eagles were one of the top teams all season long was because of the play of Wentz, who is now already recognized as one of the best qbs in the league. Do you really believe that Foles would have lifted the team to the same extent that Wentz did if he was the sole starter? Do you really believe that if Foles were the starter for the season the Eagles would have had the same success? I don't. 

 

I'm not arguing that having a top tier OL isn't important. Of course it is. I'm not arguing that upgrading the receiver isn't important? Of course it is. But what I am arguing is that the biggest contribution to the success of the respective franchises was directly related to getting a high quality qb.  

 

Its cool you disagree, and I always appreciate your thought out responses when do.  But yes we definitely disagree here.  I mean, dont you think its a bit premature to say Wentz is already recognized as one of the "best" QB's in the league?  Was he having a good sophomore season, absolutely.  Is he a young QB with a high ceiling?  Sure.  

 

But this is where things like this never land well with me.  Wentz has a good PARTIAL season and people make big claims off that.  I wonder if you were also saying that Dak is "already one of the best QB's in the league" last year too, in which no one is stating now.  Not that Dak doesn't still have potential, but no one would sit back and call him "one of the best" in the league today after his follow up season.  

 

People said Kap was going to be this and that too after leading Niners to SB, and got paid as such.  This whole board was full of threads on how stupid the Bills were for not drafting him, and now those same people don't want to sign him to even be a backup.  

This obsession with crowing people on small samples sizes just keeps persisting.  Not to mention, Foles came in as a forgotten journeyman, who two teams gave up on him in the last 3 years that needed a QB and led the same Eagles team with as much precision as Wentz during the playoffs.  And of course, there are people here who now also want to mortgage the farm to get Foles off those last 2 games he played while ignoring an underwhelming career overall.

 

So how good is Wentz really?  We dont really know at this point.   What we do know is that the Eagles have the best OL in football and they just won the SB without Wentz behind that line with a backup QB who played as good or better than Wentz in the NFC Championship game and Super Bowl.  Foles played so good in the Super Bowl, that its a legit question to wonder if the Eagles still win had Wentz been the starter against the Pats instead because Foles played about as good as anyone could play and they just squeaked out a victory.  Even a minor drop in play, a single punt, etc and the Eagles likely lose that game.

 

Dak was newest the cream of the crop behind the best OL in football...play fell off with the OL falling off and the RB suspended.  Keenum was garbage in LA and so was Gurley behind one of the worst OL's in the NFL...they revamped it, and finished ranked 3rd in the NFL and Goff, Gurley, and Rams had immediate success.  Keenum goes to a team with a good OL and revives his career.  Foles was an after thought after failing 3 consecutive years as a full time starter for Eagles and Rams...comes back in behind the #1 ranked OL in the NFL and wins the Super Bowl.

 

If you dont think there is a direct correlation with the OL and the play of the QB, then you are choosing to ignore direct evidence to such.  We need a QB, but this thread was about more than that...about building a championship team.  And we won't do that if we dont ALSO address the woeful pass protection of this team.  That is the point.  

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

But Philly had good lines when Foles was the QB (the first time), when Bradford was QB and when Wentz struggled at times as a rookie. Jason Peters and Lane Johnson has been the best offensive tackle pairing in the NFL for 5 years. 

 

The thing that made Philly contenders was that Wentz played like a true franchise Quarterback in 2017 and then they caught a bit of lightening in a bottle when a guy who is a borderline starter / top end backup had 2 and a half great games in the playoffs after sucking in his couple of regular season starts. 

 

On the Rams you are absolutely right the line as well as McVay and Goff was a major contributory factor in the improvement. But Philly's line has always been decent in recent years. The difference was QB play. 

 

 

 

Agreed, its not like the line in Philly went from rags to riches.  But, Philly line wasn't always the best in football the way it was this year.  Its gotten better over the years.  Again, not trying to take anything away from Wentz, I very much like him as a QB and in fact was defending Wentz early in the season on this board when people here were still calling him a bum.  And Foles did have his one good year in Philly when they had a good OL before Chip screwed the whole system up.  Then he went to a team with a bad OL and was awful.  

 

I am actually confused why anyone would argue against my point that any "championship" conversation includes also improving the offensive line.  Thats not some revolutionary concept, thats football 101.  Our pass protection is awful here...it needs to be addressed for whatever new QB we bring in.  

[#34fan]

The home-run hitters in this draft are at DT, DE, and WR...  I say get Les Frazier some firepower, and have him build the best defense in the league... Brian Daboll can get the best 3rd- round QB prospect available, and a WR...let's see what he can build with that.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

The answers aren't 100% Goff or Wentz, but they're like 75% Goff/Wentz and 25% offensive line IMO. The single biggest contributing factor in those two teams' success last season was the QB elevating his play. That has some, probably a lot, to do with a better line but to act as if their respective play at quarterback wasn't the main reason for the Eagles and Rams being so good is missing the point in today's NFL I think.

 

The aforementioned Cowboys went backward with a great offensive line this year because teams started exploiting much of Prescott's weaknesses (especially his reliance on play action) which allowed them to focus on stopping Elliot. The Browns have a very good line but can't do anything due to their bad quarterback play. If you have to have one or the other, in terms of instant results it's QB every time.

 

Actually, the OL play dropped off for the Cowboys this year, and so did the run game.  And that directly put more pressure on Dak and made his job harder all at the same time.  

 

And again...I dont understand why anyone here is making this about a debate of QB or OL in the first place.  At no point have I even remotely said improve the OL, not the QB.  I said improve the OL for the NEW QB.  

 

This thread specifically discussed how to build a championship team.  And I simply stated that any discussion about building a champion MUST also include improving our terrible pass blocking OL, which the original post did not.  Now some of you seem to want to debate QB or OL which was not at all my point of my post, and they clearly go together.  There is a reason they say football is won in the trenches...this thread ignored half the trench, and the half that needs to protect our shiny new toy at QB we eventually add.

 

As far as Goff and Wentz go, we already saw what Goff and Keenum (2 playoff QB's this year behind good offensive lines) did last year behind a terrible OL, one of the worst in football.  And that was to not win many games.  And as much as like Wentz, it would be pretty foolish to assume he has similar success to this year on a team with a bad OL.  It absolutely helped him take a step forward as a QB, and that is critical in the early years of a QB when they are still developing.  

[JohnC]

41 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Its cool you disagree, and I always appreciate your thought out responses when do.  But yes we definitely disagree here.  I mean, dont you think its a bit premature to say Wentz is already recognized as one of the "best" QB's in the league?  Was he having a good sophomore season, absolutely.  Is he a young QB with a high ceiling?  Sure.  

 

But this is where things like this never land well with me.  Wentz has a good PARTIAL season and people make big claims off that.  I wonder if you were also saying that Dak is "already one of the best QB's in the league" last year too, in which no one is stating now.  Not that Dak doesn't still have potential, but no one would sit back and call him "one of the best" in the league today after his follow up season.  

 

People said Kap was going to be this and that too after leading Niners to SB, and got paid as such.  This whole board was full of threads on how stupid the Bills were for not drafting him, and now those same people don't want to sign him to even be a backup.  

This obsession with crowing people on small samples sizes just keeps persisting.  Not to mention, Foles came in as a forgotten journeyman, who two teams gave up on him in the last 3 years that needed a QB and led the same Eagles team with as much precision as Wentz during the playoffs.  And of course, there are people here who now also want to mortgage the farm to get Foles off those last 2 games he played while ignoring an underwhelming career overall.

 

So how good is Wentz really?  We dont really know at this point.   What we do know is that the Eagles have the best OL in football and they just won the SB without Wentz behind that line with a backup QB who played as good or better than Wentz in the NFC Championship game and Super Bowl.  Foles played so good in the Super Bowl, that its a legit question to wonder if the Eagles still win had Wentz been the starter against the Pats instead because Foles played about as good as anyone could play and they just squeaked out a victory.  Even a minor drop in play, a single punt, etc and the Eagles likely lose that game.

 

Dak was newest the cream of the crop behind the best OL in football...play fell off with the OL falling off and the RB suspended.  Keenum was garbage in LA and so was Gurley behind one of the worst OL's in the NFL...they revamped it, and finished ranked 3rd in the NFL and Goff, Gurley, and Rams had immediate success.  Keenum goes to a team with a good OL and revives his career.  Foles was an after thought after failing 3 consecutive years as a full time starter for Eagles and Rams...comes back in behind the #1 ranked OL in the NFL and wins the Super Bowl.

 

If you dont think there is a direct correlation with the OL and the play of the QB, then you are choosing to ignore direct evidence to such.  We need a QB, but this thread was about more than that...about building a championship team.  And we won't do that if we dont ALSO address the woeful pass protection of this team.  That is the point.  

 

Agreed, its not like the line in Philly went from rags to riches.  But, Philly line wasn't always the best in football the way it was this year.  Its gotten better over the years.  Again, not trying to take anything away from Wentz, I very much like him as a QB and in fact was defending Wentz early in the season on this board when people here were still calling him a bum.  And Foles did have his one good year in Philly when they had a good OL before Chip screwed the whole system up.  Then he went to a team with a bad OL and was awful.  

 

I am actually confused why anyone would argue against my point that any "championship" conversation includes also improving the offensive line.  Thats not some revolutionary concept, thats football 101.  Our pass protection is awful here...it needs to be addressed for whatever new QB we bring in.  

First let me address an issue that you think I disagree with. Of course it is important to have a good OL to be successful. Why do you conclude that I think otherwise? What I have  stated is that the recent success of both the Rams and Eagles are more influenced by the play of the respective qbs than for any other reason. 

 

Look at what the Rams and Eagles did to acquire their qbs? Each of the teams made a costly deal to acquire their qbs. The Rams bolstered their OL and receiver corps through the free agent market and through trades. What elite qb are you going to get from the market? You make it seem as if I'm against improving the line until the qb has been acquired. That is not what I am saying and have been saying. Improving the roster is a continuous process. Why would I argue against improving the other units on the team? 

 

As far as how I rank Wentz I consider him to be one of the most promising and upcoming qb. In fact right now I put him in the upper echelon. He was probably going to win the MVP award until he got hurt.  I think Goff who made strides is going to be a good qb. Although not in the league of Wentz but in a year or two he is going to be an established franchise qb. As for Zak I'm not going to declare him capable of being an elite qb but I do see him as a franchise qb. Kaepernick in my mind is not a franchise qb, and will never be. My assessment is based on the fact that he never advanced his game. His problem is not that his game regressed but that it never advanced. That is the same issue with Tyrod. His game never progressed. When you are a seven year veteran you are who you are.  

 

Let me ask you a pertinent question on the qb issue. There is a lot of speculation that the Bills are going to make a huge effort to move up to get one of the top tier qb prospects. Why do you think that is the case? And then let me next ask you if the Bills would expend a lot of draft resources to move to the top of the board for any other position in this draft? After answering these questions you will have a better understanding of the underlying reasons for my stance on this topic. 

[QCity]

How about we shed underperforming players with overpriced contracts, avoid expensive free agents that rarely live up to their cost, move on from aging and oft-injured players, and accumulate draft picks year in and year out and build a team around them?

 

Oh wait, that's what we're doing...

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

First let me address an issue that you think I disagree with. Of course it is important to have a good OL to be successful. Why do you conclude that I think otherwise? What I have  stated is that the recent success of both the Rams and Eagles are more influenced by the play of the respective qbs than for any other reason. 

 

Look at what the Rams and Eagles did to acquire their qbs? Each of the teams made a costly deal to acquire their qbs. The Rams bolstered their OL and receiver corps through the free agent market and through trades. What elite qb are you going to get from the market? You make it seem as if I'm against improving the line until the qb has been acquired. That is not what I am saying and have been saying. Improving the roster is a continuous process. Why would I argue against improving the other units on the team? 

 

As far as how I rank Wentz I consider him to be one of the most promising and upcoming qb. In fact right now I put him in the upper echelon. He was probably going to win the MVP award until he got hurt.  I think Goff who made strides is going to be a good qb. Although not in the league of Wentz but in a year or two he is going to be an established franchise qb. As for Zak I'm not going to declare him capable of being an elite qb but I do see him as a franchise qb. Kaepernick in my mind is not a franchise qb, and will never be. My assessment is based on the fact that he never advanced his game. His problem is not that his game regressed but that it never advanced. That is the same issue with Tyrod. His game never progressed. When you are a seven year veteran you are who you are.  

 

Let me ask you a pertinent question on the qb issue. There is a lot of speculation that the Bills are going to make a huge effort to move up to get one of the top tier qb prospects. Why do you think that is the case? And then let me next ask you if the Bills would expend a lot of draft resources to move to the top of the board for any other position in this draft? After answering these questions you will have a better understanding of the underlying reasons for my stance on this topic. 

 

The issue here is that there is no debate that should be happening here.  We both seem to agree on the value of OL and QB play.  

 

OP stated what is needed to build a champion.  I pointed out he left out a critical part of that, OL upgrade, because our OL is awful at pass protection.  I cited the big turnarounds that both teams and players experienced in recent years behind great Offensive Lines which they don't get enough fan credit for.

 

Players:

Foles went from being a guy given up on by 2 teams as a failed starter  to a SB MVP behind the best OL in football.

Keenum went from being given up on by 2 teams as a failed starter, to the NFC Championship game and likely a nice new contract as a starter next year behind a good OL in Minny.

Bradford went form being a struggling starter to quality starter once he left Rams for Philly, and then again in Minny...all behind better OL's.  

 

Getting worse:

Dak regressed this year when he had to be leaned on as the OL play slipped and so did the run game.

Cousins play declined behind a declining OL this year.

 

Teams:

Rams - After heavily revamping the OL worst to 3rd best in NFL, the Rams went from worst offense and terrible run game to a great offense with a lethal run game.

Redskins - With the OL play falling off and struggling, so did the team and Cousins.

Cowboys - Again the OL declined and so did the team and Dak.  

 

These are just examples of the last 2 years.  Offensive Line isnt exciting or sexy, but a path to a CHAMPIONSHIP means we need to address it along with our QB.  You asked me some questions like I dont understand the value of getting a QB.  Of course I do, and nothing I have said at any point is advocating to not getting the right one.  I am all for doing what it takes to get said QB.  Once again though, this thread is not about who will play QB, its about the path to a championship and the OP left off a critical need of this team, ESPECIALLY if we draft a high QB...a better OL who can actually pass block for that QB.

 

Its not about one or the other, its about the need to do both...get the QB and improve the OL. 

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

9 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

There is no way you're moving from 21 to the top 5 with that offer.

Hey Im no expert but we disagree.

 

I think Tre White is worth a pretty high first round pick by himself, because he isn't a gamble. We know how well he transitioned to the NFL. He is a Pro Bowl caliber player already and he makes chump change compared to what he is worth.

 

Add the two later first round picks to that and I think its a very tempting offer.

 

Really, the thought of it horrifies me. I think we lose a lot. The only reason i wold consider doing it is because we could maybe get a good QB at last plus use our second rounders for a couple hopefully decent lineman.