twoandfourteen Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 44 total games as the Bills QB: INTs Games with 3 INT: 1 - 2.2% Games with 2 INT: 0 - 0.0% Games with 1 INT: 13 - 29.5% Games with 0 INT: 30 - 68.1% Passing Yards 43 games under 300 - 97.7% 38 games under 280 - 86.3% 30 games under 230 - 68.1% 23 games under 200 - 52.2% 16 games under 180 - 36.3% 7 games under 130 - 15.9% Passing TDs Games with 3 passing TDs: 6 - 13.6% Games with 2 passing TDs: 7 - 15.9% Games with 1 passing TD: 19 - 43.1% Games with 0 passing TD: 12 - 27.2% 31 games with 1 or 0 passing TDs - 70.4% 38 games with 2 or fewer passing TDs - 86.3% 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Championship?! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 More than half the time he doesn't throw for 200 yards. I'm sorry, but this isn't rugby. Time to move on. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Truth hurts but the COT will still point to everyone else's fault while pushing for him to stay another season. It is sad when other teams laugh at the Bills stating they made him be a QB. I would like to see our OC be able to have all the QBs run the same scheme not two on one scheme and Tyrod on his short bus scheme. Can not have any unity on offense when not on the same page. Edited January 9, 2018 by xRUSHx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 It was Dennison's play-calling. It was Roman's system. He didn't have any receivers. His o-line didn't block for him. He was playing hurt. He's held to a higher standard because he's black. Did I miss any? 6 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 23 games under 200 - 52.2% Games with 1 passing TD: 19 - 43.1% Games with 0 passing TD: 12 - 27.2% 31 games with 1 or 0 passing TDs - 70.4% 38 games with 2 or fewer passing TDs - 86.3% 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: It was Dennison's play-calling. It was Roman's system. He didn't have any receivers. His o-line didn't block for him. He was playing hurt. He's held to a higher standard because he's black. Did I miss any? He needs shorter o-line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Gugny said: It was Dennison's play-calling. It was Roman's system. He didn't have any receivers. His o-line didn't block for him. He was playing hurt. He's held to a higher standard because he's black. Did I miss any? I get what you are saying - every excuse under the sun for Tyrod. But you're missing the point that Dennison's system was not a fit for Tyrod (which should have been seen in camp), yet it was stubbornly forced on him anyway. The results were putrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Happy Gilmore said: I get what you are saying - every excuse under the sun for Tyrod. But you're missing the point that Dennison's system was not a fit for Tyrod (which should have been seen in camp), yet it was stubbornly forced on him anyway. The results were putrid. The stats above are for 44 games not 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Gugny said: It was Dennison's play-calling. It was Roman's system. He didn't have any receivers. His o-line didn't block for him. He was playing hurt. He's held to a higher standard because he's black. Did I miss any? If it wasn't for Tyrod McCoy wouldn't be as productive as a back. He should still be considered a rookie because he has only been a starter a few seasons. But he was so good in 2015 Edited January 9, 2018 by xRUSHx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Happy Gilmore said: I get what you are saying - every excuse under the sun for Tyrod. But you're missing the point that Dennison's system was not a fit for Tyrod (which should have been seen in camp), yet it was stubbornly forced on him anyway. The results were putrid. Is that Dennison's fault? You make it sound like there's some magical offensive scheme with Tyrod where all of the sudden he's unstoppable. We called plenty of roll-out style pass plays in the second half of the season. We called several designed QB runs. What do you want Dennison to do exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I get what you are saying - every excuse under the sun for Tyrod. But you're missing the point that Dennison's system was not a fit for Tyrod (which should have been seen in camp), yet it was stubbornly forced on him anyway. The results were putrid. That was part of the process. We learned that it's a good system because receivers were open all day long every week and the run game was solid. If a company makes a bad hire and an employee isn't a good fit, the company doesn't change the way they do things. They get rid of the employee who's not a good fit. Edited January 9, 2018 by Gugny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Mrbojanglezs said: The stats above are for 44 games not 15 I understand that, but you can't tell me that Tyrod was worse in 2015 and 2016. You also can't deny that the offense in general this season was much worse than the past two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Was Roman's offense perfect, no? Was Lynn's offense perfect, no? Was Dennison's offense perfect, no? Either way there were open receivers that he has missed in every offense. His first 2 years, he wouldn't throw to the middle of the field, this year he wouldn't throw to the outside. His vision is too limited to be a franchise QB. Tyrod is a nice guy, hard worker, team leader, etc. but he is not clutch whatsoever and is not going to take us to where we need to be. It's time to move on, for better or worse, i just don't get how anyone can defend Tyrod or think we should come back for year 4. Edited January 9, 2018 by uticaclub 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I understand that, but you can't tell me that Tyrod was worse in 2015 and 2016. You also can't deny that the offense in general this season was much worse than the past two seasons. He was worse this year but the overall theme was always the same with him. If you look at threads before the 2017 season you will see Can't throw over the middle Doesn't fit it in small windows Not an anticipation thrower Reads half the field Runs/bails on pocket too quick The one thing that really dropped off for Taylor this year was his long ball. He used to be terrible with over the middle 15 yard throws but really good with long bombs, maybe losing Sammy and Goodwin contributed to that but his long ball game was awful this year. You make a big case that Dennison's offense was not a fit, what offense is a fit for Tyrod the wishbone? Read Option Runs? Fact of the matter is regardless of the scheme, he struggled as a passer. Edited January 9, 2018 by Mrbojanglezs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said: I understand that, but you can't tell me that Tyrod was worse in 2015 and 2016. You also can't deny that the offense in general this season was much worse than the past two seasons. He wasn't worse in 2015 and 2016. He's been painfully consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I understand that, but you can't tell me that Tyrod was worse in 2015 and 2016. You also can't deny that the offense in general this season was much worse than the past two seasons. Miracle seasons happen from time to time, look at MCastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I understand that, but you can't tell me that Tyrod was worse in 2015 and 2016. You also can't deny that the offense in general this season was much worse than the past two seasons. I'm with you on this one. While I think TT is limited and they need to move on from him, I think Dennison is more to blame than him., and should be gone as well. Every single category on offence is way down from the past two years. The main difference? Change at offensive coordinator. Coincidence? Nope Edited January 9, 2018 by billsfan11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 his performance on sunday made Blake Bortles look like an upgrade. bye Felicia! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieJohnsonGOAT Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, fridge said: More than half the time he doesn't throw for 200 yards. I'm sorry, but this isn't rugby. Time to move on. How is that even possible in today's NFL. Lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said: He was worse this year but the overall theme was always the same with him. If you look at threads before the 2017 season you will see Can't throw over the middle Doesn't fit it in small windows Not an anticipation thrower Reads half the field Runs/bails on pocket too quick The one thing that really dropped off for Taylor this year was his long ball. He used to be terrible with over the middle 15 yard throws but really good with long bombs, maybe losing Sammy and Goodwin contributed to that but his long ball game was awful this year. You make a big case that Dennison's offense was not a fit, what offense is a fit for Tyrod the wishbone? Read Option Runs? Fact of the matter is regardless of the scheme, he struggled as a passer. Tyrod needs his short bus scheme to move the ball even a little, eventually a QB needs to step off the short bus to get on the big boy bus, sadly each new OC has him still on the short bus scheme because he is just not good enough for such a long system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, fridge said: Is that Dennison's fault? You make it sound like there's some magical offensive scheme with Tyrod where all of the sudden he's unstoppable. We called plenty of roll-out style pass plays in the second half of the season. We called several designed QB runs. What do you want Dennison to do exactly? I never said there is a system where Tyrod is unstoppable; he's a mediocre QB, so he can always be stopped. But in a system that allows him to be a dual threat, though more of a running threat than passing, Tyrod would thrive more in that system. The offense was way more pocket passing based than running/spread. So it may very well be Dennison's fault, or if as Gugny stated below, it could be part of the process. Either way, IMO, we way under performed on offense this year, even with the lack of talent. Then there is the zone blocking scheme which can't be denied was a big step back from last season's power blocking scheme. All contributed to a poor offense, which Dennison shoulders most of the blame. 1 minute ago, Gugny said: That was part of the process. We learned that it's a good system because receivers were open all day long every week and the run game was solid. If that was the case (part of the process) then there is no doubt that it is time to move on from Tyrod as he and Dennison will never work well together. Tyrod is not a pocket passer and misses a lot of open receivers; that has been proven. If it was indeed part of the process, then we're extremely fortunate to have made the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, fridge said: Is that Dennison's fault? You make it sound like there's some magical offensive scheme with Tyrod where all of the sudden he's unstoppable. We called plenty of roll-out style pass plays in the second half of the season. We called several designed QB runs. What do you want Dennison to do exactly? I want TT gone, and there's no system where he's "unstoppable"... HOWEVER He used to be anyway - really good throwing deep balls. The non-imaginary scheme that suits him is the old Raiders power-run/deep pass system that relies on FAST WRs to get down the field for those bombs that force open the run. The WCO they switched to this year is pretty much the opposite of that scheme FWIW. It's not very modern, but it's basically what (I believe) Seattle, Carolina, Baltimore, and to a degree Pittsburgh try to do. I wouldn't stick with TT to run that scheme though - even when the Bills basically did that with Roman, Tyrod is pretty clearly the worst of all the QB's on that list who are suited to the scheme. So, there's a "best" scheme for Tyrod, the Bills didn't run it, but even if they did, Taylor would still be the worst QB in the league running that scheme. Edited January 9, 2018 by BobChalmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, BobChalmers said: I want TT gone, and there's no system where he's "unstoppable"... HOWEVER He used to be anyway - really good throwing deep balls. The non-imaginary scheme that suits him is the old Raiders power-run/deep pass system that relies on FAST WRs to get down the field for those bombs that force open the run. It's not very modern, but it's basically what (I believe) Seattle, Carolina, Baltimore, and to a degree Pittsburgh try to do. I wouldn't stick with TT to run that scheme though - even when the Bills basically did that with Roman, Tyrod is pretty clearly the worst of all the QB's on that list who are suited to the scheme. So, there's a "best" scheme for Tyrod, the Bills didn't run it, but even if they did, Taylor would still be the worst QB in the league running that scheme. The scheme change is why he couldn't hit any deep balls this season? Hot take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, Gugny said: It was Dennison's play-calling. It was Roman's system. He didn't have any receivers. His o-line didn't block for him. He was playing hurt. He's held to a higher standard because he's black. Did I miss any? Don't forget the "he's basically still a rookie" excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 23 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I understand that, but you can't tell me that Tyrod was worse in 2015 and 2016. You also can't deny that the offense in general this season was much worse than the past two seasons. why are you arguing this? it's a total waste of time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobH063 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, Gugny said: It was Dennison's play-calling. It was Roman's system. He didn't have any receivers. His o-line didn't block for him. He was playing hurt. He's held to a higher standard because he's black. Did I miss any? You're missing the point. Roman wasn't a good fit for Tyrod and Dennison isn't either. Taylor has no good receivers to throw to and the O-line needs a big upgrade. Not to mention that Tyrod plays hurt a lot. I bet everyone would feel differently about him if he wasn't black. <Sarcasm> Yes my whole post was full of Sarcasm and your post was spot on! A replacement can't be in place soon enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, BobChalmers said: I want TT gone, and there's no system where he's "unstoppable"... HOWEVER He used to be anyway - really good throwing deep balls. The non-imaginary scheme that suits him is the old Raiders power-run/deep pass system that relies on FAST WRs to get down the field for those bombs that force open the run. It's not very modern, but it's basically what (I believe) Seattle, Carolina, Baltimore, and to a degree Pittsburgh try to do. I wouldn't stick with TT to run that scheme though - even when the Bills basically did that with Roman, Tyrod is pretty clearly the worst of all the QB's on that list who are suited to the scheme. So, there's a "best" scheme for Tyrod, the Bills didn't run it, but even if they did, Taylor would still be the worst QB in the league running that scheme. Sorry I don't buy that Dennison's scheme forces Tyrod to throw his deep passes out of bounds or overthrow the receivers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: I'm with you on this one. While I think TT is limited and they need to move on from him, I think Dennison is more to blame than him., and should be gone as well. Every single category on offence is way down from the past two years. The main difference? Change at offensive coordinator. Coincidence? Nope That's fine. You can blame Dennison all you want, but the only constant over three seasons and three OC's is that our passing offense has ranked literally at the bottom. I tend to think there's a much larger correlation you're missing here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said: Sorry I don't buy that Dennison's scheme forces Tyrod to throw his deep passes out of bounds or overthrow the receivers. I could swear I just typed "there's a "best" scheme for Tyrod, the Bills didn't run it, but even if they did, Taylor would still be the worst QB in the league running that scheme." Edited January 9, 2018 by BobChalmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, fridge said: That's fine. You can blame Dennison all you want, but the only constant over three seasons and three OC's is that our passing offense has ranked literally at the bottom. I tend to think there's a much larger correlation you're missing here... The weather in Buffalo is bad. If Taylor played for a team with a dome, he'd be UNSTOPPABLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, Gugny said: It was Dennison's play-calling. It was Roman's system. He didn't have any receivers. His o-line didn't block for him. He was playing hurt. He's held to a higher standard because he's black. Did I miss any? I think the biggie is "but look at his TD to INT ratio!!" 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said: He was worse this year but the overall theme was always the same with him. If you look at threads before the 2017 season you will see Can't throw over the middle Doesn't fit it in small windows Not an anticipation thrower Reads half the field Runs/bails on pocket too quick The one thing that really dropped off for Taylor this year was his long ball. He used to be terrible with over the middle 15 yard throws but really good with long bombs, maybe losing Sammy and Goodwin contributed to that but his long ball game was awful this year. You make a big case that Dennison's offense was not a fit, what offense is a fit for Tyrod the wishbone? Read Option Runs? Fact of the matter is regardless of the scheme, he struggled as a passer. Tyrod is not a traditional drop back passer, that we know. I think it is also accurate to say that Tyrod hasn't changed in three seasons and still has the same short comings as a QB and no doubt struggles as a passer. My point was simply that if we ran a more spread type of offense, and less predicated on pocket passing, like we did last season, Tyrod would have been more comfortable and we would have at least been an average offense statistics/scoring wise. You are correct, Tyrod's long ball was horrible this year, can't deny that; I would guess this is because he was not comfortable 'being a QB.' Edited January 9, 2018 by Happy Gilmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 In the NFL you have to be able to make all the throws because even if you scheme up something that may work for a limited QB, NFL defenses quickly adjust and shut it down, so you need to be able to adjust and keep it fresh. AND You need to be able to force a throw into a small window accurately or anticipate a receiver being at a spot before it happens to beat good corner backs. Tyrod does none of the above well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtDart Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 We are really still discussing this guy? Thought the Fan Boys have moved on as well finally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, row_33 said: why are you arguing this? it's a total waste of time.... Yeah, there are a number of people who are not looking at the entire picture. Everything is the QBs fault or the QB deserves all the credit. Football is a total team sport (including coaching) where there are lots of moving parts and interchangeable pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Happy Gilmore said: Tyrod is not a traditional drop back passer, that we know. I think it is also accurate to say that Tyrod hasn't changed in three seasons and still has the same short comings as a QB and no doubt struggles as a passer. My point was simply that if we ran a more spread type of offense, and less predicated on pocket passing, like we did last season, Tyrod would have been more comfortable and we would have at least been an average offense statistics/scoring wise. You are correct, Tyrod's long back was horrible this year, can't deny that; I would guess this is because he was not comfortable 'being a QB.' We ran several spread formations on Sunday. We rolled out Taylor PLENTY of times. What you're suggesting -- that we somehow limited him by not changing the entire offense to literally pop warner level play calling -- isn't even true. We DID alter the offense significantly for Taylor. You still have to call plays where the QB throws from the pocket. And stop referring to last year like it was any different. Taylor's stats, indicated in this very thread, prove that over 44 games he's been incredibly ineffective. His biggest strength, not turning the ball over, is completely mitigated by his inability to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 33 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said: 23 games under 200 - 52.2% Games with 1 passing TD: 19 - 43.1% Games with 0 passing TD: 12 - 27.2% 31 games with 1 or 0 passing TDs - 70.4% 38 games with 2 or fewer passing TDs - 86.3% This just, this just isn’t very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said: Yeah, there are a number of people who are not looking at the entire picture. Everything is the QBs fault or the QB deserves all the credit. Football is a total team sport (including coaching) where there are lots of moving parts and interchangeable pieces. I literally just looked at the entire picture. All 44 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I'm not seeing much defending him anymore. The important thread-title today is the one referencing the same thing I was struck by on the JMS yesterday: Chris Brown pretty much calling out TT for not being good enough. Brown is the Bills PR mouthpiece. Any time he says anything you know he has OBD's permission. Taylor is clearly gone or he'd never have said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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