Nitpicky topic: opening kickoff

[PromoTheRobot]

This irked me a bit. In the end it didn't matter since we scored a TD anyway, but Tate missed a golden opportunity.

 

When a kickoff is bouncing toward out of bounds, Tate should have put one foot out of bounds before playing the ball. That would create a penalty on Miami and would have given us the ball on the 40. Instead Tate only got to the 19. 

 

I know the Patriots pulled that BS on us before.  That is the rule, isn't it, or does it only apply to New England?

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

This irked me a bit. In the end it didn't matter since we scored a TD anyway, but Tate missed a golden opportunity.

 

When a kickoff is bouncing toward out of bounds, Tate should have put one foot out of bounds before playing the ball. That would create a penalty on Miami and would have given us the ball on the 40. Instead Tate only got to the 19. 

 

I know the Patriots pulled that BS on us before.  That is the rule, isn't it, or does it only apply to New England?

 

I dont think that is how the rule is applied 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I dont think that is how the rule is applied 

 

It is for the Patriots. Do you not remember the "unconcious fumble recovery" of 2003?

Edited December 18, 2017 by PromoTheRobot

[Klapaucius]

I remember the play you're talking about. It's an illegal procedure penalty against the kicking team, same as kicking the ball out of bounds. I wouldn't be surprised if Tate wasn't aware of it though.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

It is for the Patriots. Do you not remember the "unconcious fumble recovery" of 2003?

 

And i am pretty sure in 14 years that ruke changed 

[theAteam]

I thought the ball was going OB anyway and was wondering why he didn't just let it go. But in the moment I'm sure you don't want to chance that Miami gets to the ball before it bounces out.

Edited December 18, 2017 by theAteam

[Wooderson]

I mean, he's sprinting from 25 yards away to recover a live ball with 11 guys running full speed at him.  It's a snap decision to make.  Hindsight is always 20/20.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And i am pretty sure in 14 years that ruke changed 

Nope. It wasn't.

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Klapaucius said:

I remember the play you're talking about. It's an illegal procedure penalty against the kicking team, same as kicking the ball out of bounds. I wouldn't be surprised if Tate wasn't aware of it though.

 

Are you sure. I think that rule was changed 

[Klapaucius]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Are you sure. I think that rule was changed 

 

If it's been changed since that game, than I am wrong. I remember the play very well, likely because I was pissed off. I haven't read anything about a rule change, but I don't really follow kick off procedure too closely.

[DallasMac]

Didn't the Jets do it to us last year?

Edited December 18, 2017 by DallasMac

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Klapaucius said:

 

If it's been changed since that game, than I am wrong. I remember the play very well, likely because I was pissed off. I haven't read anything about a rule change, but I don't really follow kick off procedure too closely.

 

Yeah i am not 100% sure on the rule either. So guess I am not 100% sure if been changed but with the overhaul on KO makes me wonder about a play cited from 2003

[DallasMac]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/packers-take-advantage-of-ridiculous-nfl-rule-to-magically-make-kickoff-go-out-of-bounds-092516%3famp=true

[Bookie Man]

24 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 Tate missed a golden opportunity.

 

Nice, I see what you did there. 

[rsxfirefighter]

13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

This irked me a bit. In the end it didn't matter since we scored a TD anyway, but Tate missed a golden opportunity.

 

When a kickoff is bouncing toward out of bounds, Tate should have put one foot out of bounds before playing the ball. That would create a penalty on Miami and would have given us the ball on the 40. Instead Tate only got to the 19. 

 

I know the Patriots pulled that BS on us before.  That is the rule, isn't it, or does it only apply to New England?

 

I believe the team that pulled this stunt on us was the NY Jets. (Confirmed: Leon Washington Week 8, 2008)  I was furious when they called it back then and was shocked to find it a legit call.

Not sure if this video is correct, as it wont load here at work: http://www.newyorkjets.com/videos/videos/2008-Week-15-Jets-vs-Bills---Leon-Washington/276f4a91-79d0-11df-ba56-acc8e62813e9

 

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the kick on Sunday and was upset Tate didn't pull the same stunt.

 

I haven't heard any reference to that rule being changed.

The previous definition if a player is out of bounds and touches the ball it is ruled out of bounds at that point of contact.

 

This rule was still valid last season:

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/packers-take-advantage-of-ridiculous-nfl-rule-to-magically-make-kickoff-go-out-of-bounds-092516

 

[RyanC883]

If so, a major mishap by Tate and one has to wonder if the ST Coach even knows about it.  I know it's a "snap judgment," but returning kicks is this guys job.  He should have it ingrained in him what to do in that situation so that it would be habitual.  

[26CornerBlitz]

It's still a rule that applies and it's not a stunt as some call it.  Instead it's keen awareness of situational football that good teams should demonstrate. 

[rsxfirefighter]

Looked up the rule on NFL.Com and it draws "opinion" into the definition of "touched" when reading #6. Unfortunately, there is no dates on changes to the rules to tell if this is a new addition to the rule book.

 

According to the Rulebook at NFL.com:

 

 

Digest of Rules Main

 

Kickoff

1. In addition to a kickoff, the other free kick is a kick after a safety (safety kick). A punt may be used (a punt may not be used on a kickoff).
2. On a safety kick, the team scored upon puts ball in play by a punt, dropkick, or placekick without tee. No score can be made on a free kick following a safety, even if a series of penalties places team in position. (A field goal can be scored only on a play from scrimmage or a free kick after a fair catch.)
3. A kickoff may not score a field goal.
4. A kickoff is illegal unless it travels 10 yards OR is touched by the receiving team. Once the ball is touched by the receiving team or has gone 10 yards, it is a free ball. Receivers may recover and advance. Kicking team may recover but NOT advance UNLESS receiver had possession and lost the ball.
5. When a kickoff goes out of bounds between the goal lines without being touched by the receiving team, the ball belongs to the receivers 30 yards from the spot of the kick or at the out-of-bounds spot unless the ball went out-of-bounds the first time an onside kick was attempted. In this case, the kicking team is penalized five yards and the ball must be kicked again.
6. When a kickoff goes out of bounds between the goal lines and is touched last by receiving team, it is receiver’s ball at out-of-bounds spot.
7. If the kicking team either illegally kicks off out of bounds or is guilty of a short free kick on two or more consecutive onside kicks, receivers may take possession of the ball at the dead ball spot, out-of-bounds spot, or spot of illegal touch.

[SectionC3]

28 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I dont think that is how the rule is applied 

 

Jets did it to us. Leon Washington back in the day.  

 

This rule is the reason tolbert's fumble recovery was reviewed.  If Tolbert recovered OOB, then ball = OOB.

[Not at the table Karlos]

31 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I dont think that is how the rule is applied 

It is. Teams have done it for a while. Jets player did it to us a couple times 

[LeGOATski]

11 minutes ago, rsxfirefighter said:

Looked up the rule on NFL.Com and it draws "opinion" into the definition of "touched" when reading #6. Unfortunately, there is no dates on changes to the rules to tell if this is a new addition to the rule book.

 

According to the Rulebook at NFL.com:

 

 

 

 

Digest of Rules Main

 

Kickoff

1. In addition to a kickoff, the other free kick is a kick after a safety (safety kick). A punt may be used (a punt may not be used on a kickoff).
2. On a safety kick, the team scored upon puts ball in play by a punt, dropkick, or placekick without tee. No score can be made on a free kick following a safety, even if a series of penalties places team in position. (A field goal can be scored only on a play from scrimmage or a free kick after a fair catch.)
3. A kickoff may not score a field goal.
4. A kickoff is illegal unless it travels 10 yards OR is touched by the receiving team. Once the ball is touched by the receiving team or has gone 10 yards, it is a free ball. Receivers may recover and advance. Kicking team may recover but NOT advance UNLESS receiver had possession and lost the ball.
5. When a kickoff goes out of bounds between the goal lines without being touched by the receiving team, the ball belongs to the receivers 30 yards from the spot of the kick or at the out-of-bounds spot unless the ball went out-of-bounds the first time an onside kick was attempted. In this case, the kicking team is penalized five yards and the ball must be kicked again.
6. When a kickoff goes out of bounds between the goal lines and is touched last by receiving team, it is receiver’s ball at out-of-bounds spot.
7. If the kicking team either illegally kicks off out of bounds or is guilty of a short free kick on two or more consecutive onside kicks, receivers may take possession of the ball at the dead ball spot, out-of-bounds spot, or spot of illegal touch.

"Touched last by receiving team" is clear. It just depends on when the touch happens. If the player is out of bounds, then the ball is OOB immediately. If the player is not OOB and touches the ball first, then it's live.

[Virgil]

I don’t think he had time. That ball died quickly and the dolphins were coming fast. He had to be quick to grab it or things may have gotten a lot more interesting 

[Sweats]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

This irked me a bit. In the end it didn't matter since we scored a TD anyway, but Tate missed a golden opportunity.

 

When a kickoff is bouncing toward out of bounds, Tate should have put one foot out of bounds before playing the ball. That would create a penalty on Miami and would have given us the ball on the 40. Instead Tate only got to the 19. 

 

I know the Patriots pulled that BS on us before.  That is the rule, isn't it, or does it only apply to New England?

 

 

 

You are correct, sir.

 

Green Bay does this trick all the time............however, those players are taught to do it.

If our coaching staff doesnt even know about this trick (i'm just guessing here) then how does anyone expect to pass it on to the players?

 

It is a very smart football play that incorporates the NFL rules against itself and any advantage that can be exploited through the rules itself, is something i'm completely onboard with.

[Gugny]

Tate is a crappy returner.  I was excited when we got him and I'm always (as in, every !@#$ing kickoff) waiting for "this to be the one."  But he sucks.

[KW95 - JA17]

23 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Tate is a crappy returner.  I was excited when we got him and I'm always (as in, every !@#$ing kickoff) waiting for "this to be the one."  But he sucks.

 

Anyone you like on the roster? ( I just took the lead, Expos 2, Mets 1 )

 

As a matter of Fact..Tate is terrible.  Brings nothing to special teams although I will commend his sure hands.

[LeGOATski]

33 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Tate is a crappy returner.  I was excited when we got him and I'm always (as in, every !@#$ing kickoff) waiting for "this to be the one."  But he sucks.

It seems to be a coverage problem. Many guys can return kicks. The coverage needs to create opportunities. I haven't seen many, if any, opportunities.

[CLTbills]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I dont think that is how the rule is applied 

It actually is. If the player recovering the ball is out of bounds, then the ball is too.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by CLTbills

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I dont think that is how the rule is applied 

Yes it is. Leon Washington did it to us before with the Jets

 

If any part of your body is out of bounds when touching a ball in bounds, the ball is deemed to be out of bounds, no different than a player recovering a fumble.

Edited December 18, 2017 by matter2003