NFL.com: Gregg Rosenthal's QB Index

[twoandfourteen]

5 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

this is beyond stupid.... taylor has a winning record with a defense that's not even half as good as minnesotas..... do you even come close to thinking before you type?

 

I hate even going to bat for taylor anymore but stuff like this is just so dumb.

 

You mean that Bills defense that singlehandedly won the Atlanta game, held Carolina to 9 points, slowed down (relatively speaking) Tom Brady, and owned Alex Smith? That Bills defense that has pro-bowl caliber DBs starting at nearly every position? 

 

[BringBackOrton]

Some folks are really arguing that Taylor is better than Keenum in 2017?

 

wowzer.

[Dr. Who]

This is a pretty ridiculous investment of time in a petty issue.  For what it's worth (probably not much) I've watched quite a bit of the Vikings.  When I was a kid, Vikes were my number two team because I liked Fran Tarkenton and purple and Vikings.  So, I still watch them with some remnant nostalgia.  Keenum benefits from a superior defense and he's having one of those years where the breaks go mostly one way for a mediocre qb.  Neither he nor Taylor is a long-term solution to a team looking for a franchise qb.

[Stank_Nasty]

Just now, Teddy KGB said:

 

Ive read your posts.    You are cot.  

 

Dont try to fool me.      I get your distancing yourself from it now because you finally get it.  

 

Happy New Years.       To next year with no Tyrod ! 

right. that fact that I wanted a qb early last year..... pay no mind to that. 

 

apparently the fact that I pointed out that taylor has a winning record with 3 years worth of bad defenses and would obviously be winning with minn's defense puts me in the COT. thanks for proving my point. you mistake common sense and not just senselessly bashing a player for being in love with them. 

 

I thought I had a least favorite poster pretty well set in stone as of the last month. but.... congrats. you've taken the mantle. hard earned too I must say.

[twoandfourteen]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

Some folks are really arguing that Taylor is better than Keenum in 2017?

 

wowzer.

Yes, apparently the Minnesota defense is the reason Keenum has put up far better passing numbers than Tyrod Taylor. 

[Stank_Nasty]

3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Some folks are really arguing that Taylor is better than Keenum in 2017?

 

wowzer.

well... i'm not. its getting twisted that way by awful posters. my argument was there is about 20-25 qb's in the league that could win games on that team. too which I was told taylor couldn't..... now correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't taylor have a winning record with 3 years worth of sub-par defenses? how exactly would he win less in Minnesota?

Edited December 28, 2017 by Stank_Nasty

[twoandfourteen]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

well... i'm not. its getting twisted that way by awful posters. my argument was there is about 20-25 qb's in the league that could win games on that team. too which I was told taylor couldn't..... now correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't taylor have a winning record with 3 years worth of sub-par defenses? how exactly would he win less in Minnesota?

 

Tyrod Taylor could definitely win with Minnesota's defense. 

 

Probably 7 to 9 games, depending on how many TD's the defense can pitch in. 

[Stank_Nasty]

6 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

You mean that Bills defense that singlehandedly won the Atlanta game, held Carolina to 9 points, slowed down (relatively speaking) Tom Brady, and owned Alex Smith? That Bills defense that has pro-bowl caliber DBs starting at nearly every position? 

 

are you seriously arguing that the bills defense has been good as a whole this year? becuz if you are that tells me all I need to know about you. speaks volumes. nothing left to talk about. 

 

 

1 minute ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Tyrod Taylor could definitely win with Minnesota's defense. 

 

Probably 7 to 9 games, depending on how many TD's the defense can pitch in. 

oh my god.... you are horrible dude.... freaking horrible.

 

he's won that the last 3 years with defenses that ARENT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT MINNESOTA HAS.... you cant be this simple.

 

i'm done talking with you becuz this is a whole new type of ignorant. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Stank_Nasty

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

are you seriously arguing that the bills defense has been good as a whole this year? becuz if you are that tells me all I need to know about you. speaks volumes. nothing left to talk about. 

 

 

oh my god.... you are horrible dude.... freaking horrible.

 

he's won that the last 3 years with defenses that ARENT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT MINNESOTA HAS.... you cant be this simple.

 

How much you wanna bet?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

????

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

This is so full of nonsensical fallacies with the Bills coming back from a 27-20 deficit against TB to win 30- 27.  The Bills run game struggled in several wins this season with Tyrod making key throws to help the Bills win (See the Denver and Atlanta games).  You continue to make posts full of declarative bluster and opinion that are easily refuted by the facts of what occurred in actual game play.  

Last time I checked, Tyrod has thrown ZERO meaningful TDs in the 4th quarter of games this year, ZERO!

The 2 garbage time TDs he did throw were exactly that, garbage time, down 34-7 vs Jets in 4th qtr and down 47 -10 vs Chargers in 4th qtr.

Add to that he also had 2 garbage time TD runs in those same games late in the 4th qtr each. 

Take away those 4 garbage time TDs and Tyrod has accounted for 13 TDs in 14 games so far this year for a starting QB. 

Somehow that is good enough for the followers to keep spewing out phony fabricated crappy statistics to somehow justify the loony Tyrod worshiping.

 

You can't make this stuff up, it is a top notch comedy with all the twists and turns of excuses being made in support of this garbage QB.

It's almost over...it's almost over...it's almost over...it's almost over...it's almost over.....................................  

 

[twoandfourteen]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

are you seriously arguing that the bills defense has been good as a whole this year? becuz if you are that tells me all I need to know about you. speaks volumes. nothing left to talk about. 

 

 

 

So, timely defensive TDs against Atlanta & New England... holding Carolina to 9 points... only allowing 1 TD pass to Tom Brady... that's not a good defense? 

 

If anything, they've been hung out to dry by the dysfunctional Ty-gun Offense. 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, BillsfanAZ said:

Where are the stats for how many times he checks down instead of throwing to the sticks? 

 

This is a stat Footballoutsiders calls ALEX and you can find where all QBs rank here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

 

here's their description of ALEX:

• ALEX represents Air Less EXpected on third downs, the average difference between the length of the quarterback's throw and the distance needed for a new set of downs. The number listed here only includes third downs and is not adjusted for passes thrown away or batted down.

 

Taylor ranks 18th out of 35 QBs.

 

Here's a list of just some of the QBs Taylor has a higher ALEX than, or QBs who throw to or past the sticks less than Taylor:

 

Drew Brees 

Phillip Rivers

Case Keenum 

Jared Goff

Alex Smith

Matt Ryan 

Kirk Cousins 

 

among others.

 

 

I hope that was helpful. After all, you did ask for it

 

[Teddy KGB]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

This is a stat Footballoutsiders calls ALEX and you can find where all QBs rank here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

 

here's their description of ALEX:

• ALEX represents Air Less EXpected on third downs, the average difference between the length of the quarterback's throw and the distance needed for a new set of downs. The number listed here only includes third downs and is not adjusted for passes thrown away or batted down.

 

Taylor ranks 18th out of 35 QBs.

 

Here's a list of just some of the QBs Taylor has a higher ALEX than, or QBs who throw to or past the sticks less than Taylor:

 

Drew Brees 

Phillip Rivers

Case Keenum 

Jared Goff

Alex Smith

Matt Ryan 

Kirk Cousins 

 

among others.

 

 

I hope that was helpful. After all, you did ask for it

 

 

What about ranking 25th in yards and 25th in touchdowns ?    

 

Is alex as awesome as qbr ? 

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

This is a stat Footballoutsiders calls ALEX and you can find where all QBs rank here:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

 

here's their description of ALEX:

• ALEX represents Air Less EXpected on third downs, the average difference between the length of the quarterback's throw and the distance needed for a new set of downs. The number listed here only includes third downs and is not adjusted for passes thrown away or batted down.

 

Taylor ranks 18th out of 35 QBs.

 

Here's a list of just some of the QBs Taylor has a higher ALEX than, or QBs who throw to or past the sticks less than Taylor:

 

Drew Brees 

Phillip Rivers

Case Keenum 

Jared Goff

Alex Smith

Matt Ryan 

Kirk Cousins 

 

among others.

 

 

I hope that was helpful. After all, you did ask for it

 

But what is their percentages of yards and first downs?

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

This is so full of nonsensical fallacies with the Bills coming back from a 27-20 deficit against TB to win 30- 27.  The Bills run game struggled in several wins this season with Tyrod making key throws to help the Bills win (See the Denver and Atlanta games).  You continue to make posts full of declarative bluster and opinion that are easily refuted by the facts of what occurred in actual game play.  

 

Also the Carolina game. Not Hotrod's fault Zay can't catch. I know it hit him in a bad spot, the hands, but still.

[BillsfanAZ]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

How often does he do this relative to other QBs in the NFL?  Do you have any idea?

No stats keep track of that but by watching other games, Taylor seems to do it more often than other QB's. There are other factors that go into this but Taylor would rather complete a dump off pass well short of the stick rather than try to fit it into a tight window or throw a 50/50 ball. 

[transplantbillsfan]

23 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

What about ranking 25th in yards and 25th in touchdowns ?    

 

Is alex as awesome as qbr ? 

 

He asked a question and I answered.

 

No, ALEX is not like QBR because it's just averaging passes on third down and where they are thrown.  As you can see, on average Taylor throws the ball past the first down marker on third down.

 

We can talk about Taylor's deficiencies as long as we aren't making them up along the way.

23 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

But what is their percentages of yards and first downs?

 

Taylor is 41.5% converting 3rd downs while passing, which is 11th out of 36 QBs and includes sacks.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=098&type=Passing&year=2017

Edited December 28, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[Dante]

On 10/4/2017 at 3:09 PM, HappyDays said:

What is Rosenthal's grading method? I'm just curious.

Looks like he doesn't take TT's 15-yard sacks into consideration. At the part of the game when you need it the least.

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, Dante said:

Looks like he doesn't take TT's 15-yard sacks into consideration. At the part of the game when you need it the least.

?

 

Tyrod gets sacked often, but he has one of the lowest yards lost per sack in the league (3rd this year at 5.67). If you mean total yards lost per game to sacks then he's at 23rd with 17. Notable QBs who are worse here are Stafford, Wilson, Cousins, Palmer, and Rodgers. Top 5 are Carr, Bortles, Rivers, Brees, and Keenum.

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

?

 

Tyrod gets sacked often, but he has one of the lowest yards lost per sack in the league (3rd this year at 5.67). If you mean total yards lost per game to sacks then he's at 23rd with 17. Notable QBs who are worse here are Stafford, Wilson, Cousins, Palmer, and Rodgers. Top 5 are Carr, Bortles, Rivers, Brees, and Keenum.

 

He's also one of the most pressured QBs in the league.

 

[twoandfourteen]

2 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

are you seriously arguing that the bills defense has been good as a whole this year? becuz if you are that tells me all I need to know about you. speaks volumes. nothing left to talk about. 

 

 

oh my god.... you are horrible dude.... freaking horrible.

 

he's won that the last 3 years with defenses that ARENT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT MINNESOTA HAS.... you cant be this simple.

 

i'm done talking with you becuz this is a whole new type of ignorant. 

 

First of all, my original position in all of this was that based solely on ability to play the position of QB, Taylor ranks somewhere in the 30-35 range across the league. 

 

At some point, #TeamTyrod started to bring in all of this ancillary stuff -- such as various NFL defenses -- to defend their boy, because there is nothing else to rationally argue.

 

And yes, the Bills defense has played some great games this year and has had some very bad moments this year. Front 7 needs some work. But on the whole, at least it's trending in the right direction. Most of all though, it is pretty much irrelevant to the original argument. So, stop deflecting and just admit that Taylor is better suited for a backup QB role. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

?

 

Tyrod gets sacked often, but he has one of the lowest yards lost per sack in the league (3rd this year at 5.67). If you mean total yards lost per game to sacks then he's at 23rd with 17. Notable QBs who are worse here are Stafford, Wilson, Cousins, Palmer, and Rodgers. Top 5 are Carr, Bortles, Rivers, Brees, and Keenum.

That's terrible.

 

1st and ten becoming 2nd and 15.67 is a drive killer in this offense.

Edited December 28, 2017 by jmc12290

[twoandfourteen]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

That's terrible.

 

1st and ten becoming 2nd and 15.67 is a drive killer in this offense.

 

1st & 10 becoming 2nd & 10 is also generally a punt waiting to happen for this team. 

[reddogblitz]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

That's terrible.

 

1st and ten becoming 2nd and 15.67 is a drive killer in this offense.

 

So when for the rest of the league minus 2 teams and the Bills, it's 2nd and greater than 5.67. That's even terribler.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

So when for the rest of the league minus 2 teams and the Bills, it's 2nd and greater than 5.67. That's even terribler.

What's terrible is 23rd in yards lost per game from sacks.  Well below average.

 

As for the rest of the league, they have these people called QB's, who throw the ball to people called WR's who run routes that can, sometimes, overcome yardage lost from a sack.  Our RB playing QB throws a 3 yard pass to Shady and prays he makes 3 guys miss.

 

See the difference?

Edited December 28, 2017 by jmc12290

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

What's terrible is 23rd in yards lost per game from sacks.  Well below average.

The average is 15.28, with the best being Carr at 6.36 and the worst being Gabbert at 28.40.

4 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

As for the rest of the league, they have these people called QB's, who throw the ball to people called WR's who run routes that can, sometimes, overcome yardage lost from a sack.  Our RB playing QB throws a 3 yard pass to Shady and prays he makes 3 guys miss.

 

See the difference?

I might if your BS scenario at the end had any merit. There are plenty of advanced stats showing average depth of target out there. You might want to reference them.

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

The average is 15.28, with the best being Carr at 6.36 and the worst being Gabbert at 28.40.

I might if your BS scenario at the end had any merit. There are plenty of advanced stats showing average depth of target out there. You might want to reference them.

Are there stats out there that show who our most targeted player is?  Is it a WR?  A TE?  No.  It's Shady.

 

Leads the team in targets, and has the lower YPR on the team on players with >20 targets.  Does that get us to 3rd and manageable when we start out 2nd and 15?  No.  It does not.

 

Math is fun.

[reddogblitz]

10 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

What's terrible is 23rd in yards lost per game from sacks.  Well below average.

 

As for the rest of the league, they have these people called QB's, who throw the ball to people called WR's who run routes that can, sometimes, overcome yardage lost from a sack.  Our RB playing QB throws a 3 yard pass to Shady and prays he makes 3 guys miss.

 

See the difference?

 

Be careful what you ask for ...

 

I'm 100% for getting a BETTER QB, not another QB.  So if we can bring in someone better, bring him in.  I do not have much patience though for baby sitting a snot nosed rookie QB when our team is this close to being a playoff team if not an out and out playoff team pending Sunday's results.

Edited December 28, 2017 by reddogblitz

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

Are there stats out there that show who our most targeted player is?  Is it a WR?  A TE?  No.  It's Shady.

 

Leads the team in targets, and has the lower YPR on the team on players with >20 targets.  Does that get us to 3rd and manageable when we start out 2nd and 15?  No.  It does not.

 

Math is fun.

Teams generally target their best player, no? If our best WR throughout the season has been the 3rd or 4th best weapon on the field it's a roster problem.

 

Remember last offseason when everyone complained that Tyrod only threw to WRs and didn't know how to utilize a TE? Ah how times change...

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Teams generally target their best player, no? If our best WR throughout the season has been the 3rd or 4th best weapon on the field it's a roster problem.

 

Remember last offseason when everyone complained that Tyrod only threw to WRs and didn't know how to utilize a TE? Ah how times change...

He doesn't.

 

But Clay was still our #1 target last year.  How times change...

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Teams generally target their best player, no? If our best WR throughout the season has been the 3rd or 4th best weapon on the field it's a roster problem.

 

Remember last offseason when everyone complained that Tyrod only threw to WRs and didn't know how to utilize a TE? Ah how times change...

 

This season the narrative is that he's the new Trent Edwards.  

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Be careful what you ask for ...

Can we get worse than 32nd pass offense in a league of 32?

[keepthefaith]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He's also one of the most pressured QBs in the league.

 

 

Of course QBs who hold the ball longer are more often pressured.

 

Tyrod is a good 2nd half QB and I don't mean the 3rd and 4th quarter.  He's a good 2nd half of passing play QB.  He seems much more comfortable holding the ball through the designed portion of the pass play (making initial read or two and then throwing the ball) in order to get to the extended part of the play.  That's the part where he rolls, scrambles and looks for the nearest open guy and throws it to him.  He's playing a 7 on 7 game. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

He doesn't.

 

But Clay was still our #1 target last year.  How times change...

You should take a look at the Rams offense, which has been spectacular this year. Gurley is 2nd in Targets, Receptions, Receiving Yards, and Receiving TDs.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, keepthefaith said:

 

Of course QBs who hold the ball longer are more often pressured.

 

Tyrod is a good 2nd half QB and I don't mean the 3rd and 4th quarter.  He's a good 2nd half of passing play QB.  He seems much more comfortable holding the ball through the designed portion of the pass play (making initial read or two and then throwing the ball) in order to get to the extended part of the play.  That's the part where he rolls, scrambles and looks for the nearest open guy and throws it to him.  He's playing a 7 on 7 game. 

 

Factually incorrect.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

You should take a look at the Rams offense, which has been spectacular this year. Gurley is 2nd in Targets, Receptions, Receiving Yards, and Receiving TDs.

Second is the new first, apparently.

 

I'm glad you brought up a team helmed by a competent QB, thought. Gurley is averaging almost a full 5 more yards per catch than Shady.   I wonder why that is?

[BuffaloHokie13]

16 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Second is the new first, apparently.

 

I'm glad you brought up a team helmed by a competent QB, thought. Gurley is averaging almost a full 5 more yards per catch than Shady.   I wonder why that is?

Considering he has more targets and catches than McCoy he'd lead our team, no? And what competent QB would throw to their RB that much instead of Woods and Sammy?

Edited December 28, 2017 by BuffaloHokie13

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

3 points bud 

 

Zay dropped a pass that very well could have been the game winner Bud

[BigDingus]

Oh...now I see where the OP's love for Tyrod came from...