More from BN sports editor

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

Coordinate with an editor from the upcoming opponents to swap 'Our Take' type stories in each others' papers. For example, publish a Cincy beat-writer's take on the Bills in the BN, and agree to have a BN writer's take on the 'Gals published in the Cincy paper.

[Rico]

Rico, not to step on your post but can I add...

 

"When criticism is warranted though, please don't hold back. But make sure the columnist providing the criticism KNOWS WHAT THE HELL THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, not just typing 'drunk on a barstool' stream-of-consciousness, bit*ching and moaning commentary. Give us more meat, less flatulence."

 

Beat reporters, absolutely. Columnists providing their take, not so much.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Rico

[JoshBarnett]

Looping back in on your comments. Keep them coming. Lots of great stuff here ...

 

* On fandom. As I mentioned, I grew up in the New York City area so I was the typical kid who watched the Giants-Jets TV doubleheaders and got a lot of exposure to both teams and talking about the game with my dad, who grew up a Giants fan. My fandom these days is for Syracuse football and basketball (at times to my dismay, especially football). When we moved back to the CNY/WNY area, we got season tickets for football. Hopefully, the program turns around.

 

* On the column swap: We picked up a bit of Paul Daugherty's column from the Cincy Enquirer today. We had one of our columns in the Denver Post a few weeks ago. We have been having an internal conversation with the staff about how much is too much or too little on the opponent during the week leading into the game generally, not necessarily in terms of opinion per se. We are doing a lot of matchup breakdowns, key plays and film review. We also are trying to run transcripts of the opposing coach/player press conferences as available. We want to be comprehensive and recognize that it's not like the Bills are out there by themselves.

 

* YoloInOhio: Feel free to send along the item from the Columbus Dispatch. Ray Stein is the sports editor there. Does a really good job. And a good guy. jbarnett@buffnews.com.

 

* I will disagree with the notion that paying for internet content is very 2010ish. You have sites popping up such as The Athletic and its various local sites, Greg Bedard’s Boston Sports Journal, the DK sports site in Pittsburgh. There are myriad other specialized sites on all sorts of topics sports and beyond being produced by traditional and non-traditional media. (The New York Times has a subscription site devoted to cooking, for example). The entirety of media and its continued evolution is probably worth its own thread, if that’s a subject people want to talk about in depth.

[Fan in San Diego]

If I give you my CC info. Is the site secure? I don't want to have to cancel my CC.

[JoshBarnett]

Do you mean to sign up for Blitz? Here is your best option and this includes the two-week free trial ...

 

https://subscribe.buffalonews.com/subscribe?package=BILLSDIG&promo=trial&utm_source=bills-2&returnUrl=

 

Appreciate it very much.

[ExiledInIllinois]

If I give you my CC info. Is the site secure? I don't want to have to cancel my CC.

Get a Visa gift card with 6 bucks on it. After it runs out, they can chase you.

[Fan in San Diego]

Get a Visa gift card with 6 bucks on it. After it runs out, they can chase you.

Good idea

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Beat reporters, absolutely. Columnists providing their take, not so much.

 

YMMV, but I personally am not interested in paying a monthly fee to read opinion columns that don't represent a knowledgeable or informed opinion.

 

If I want to read bitchin' and moanin' with facts cherry-picked selectively to support a specific agenda, I can do that on the InterWebs for free.

This to me is the biggest issue. Way too many BN columns and articles just refer to the things we all know and use quotes from the press conferences we've all seen (or read the direct transcripts of).

 

I would definitely pony up the $3 if I felt like people were reaching out to unusual sources or getting perspectives from different people around the league. Tyler Dunne did this really well when he was here - no matter what he was writing about, he would take the time to talk to players/coaches from different cities, retired players, scouts, etc.

 

I think this is important not just for reporting but also for opinion pieces. Everyone beats up on certain columnists (especially one) for being negative. But it's not just negativity - it's lazy, ill-informed negativity - the kind of stuff I can hear from any radio show caller or the guy sitting next to me at the bar. Someone like Peter King - who can basically spout anything he wants to as a columnist (and does) still takes lots of time to talk to different people around the league and to offer multiple perspectives and insights on any given issue. That is what makes a column more than just some dude's opinion. A little reporting, a little dialogue, a little synthesis. I would happily pay for the site if there was more of that kind of stuff.

 

Thanks for taking the time to engage.

 

This is it in a nutshell. I am outside the Buffalo area. I would gladly pay to get knowlegable, informed coverage I don't get elsewhere. I pay for online subscriptions to a number of online media (NYTimes, LA imes, UK Guardian, etc) for that reason.

[YoloinOhio]

Looping back in on your comments. Keep them coming. Lots of great stuff here ...

 

* On fandom. As I mentioned, I grew up in the New York City area so I was the typical kid who watched the Giants-Jets TV doubleheaders and got a lot of exposure to both teams and talking about the game with my dad, who grew up a Giants fan. My fandom these days is for Syracuse football and basketball (at times to my dismay, especially football). When we moved back to the CNY/WNY area, we got season tickets for football. Hopefully, the program turns around.

 

* On the column swap: We picked up a bit of Paul Daugherty's column from the Cincy Enquirer today. We had one of our columns in the Denver Post a few weeks ago. We have been having an internal conversation with the staff about how much is too much or too little on the opponent during the week leading into the game generally, not necessarily in terms of opinion per se. We are doing a lot of matchup breakdowns, key plays and film review. We also are trying to run transcripts of the opposing coach/player press conferences as available. We want to be comprehensive and recognize that it's not like the Bills are out there by themselves.

 

* YoloInOhio: Feel free to send along the item from the Columbus Dispatch. Ray Stein is the sports editor there. Does a really good job. And a good guy. jbarnett@buffnews.com.

 

* I will disagree with the notion that paying for internet content is very 2010ish. You have sites popping up such as The Athletic and its various local sites, Greg Bedards Boston Sports Journal, the DK sports site in Pittsburgh. There are myriad other specialized sites on all sorts of topics sports and beyond being produced by traditional and non-traditional media. (The New York Times has a subscription site devoted to cooking, for example). The entirety of media and its continued evolution is probably worth its own thread, if thats a subject people want to talk about in depth.

Josh, just saw that Ray Stein is pairing up with Rob Oller to do Scarlett and Gray Matter for tomorrow's Dispatch. I'll send the link (may need subscription though to read)

[CommonCents]

Greg Bedard and the BSJ is a pay site, he gets a lot of subscribers from doing a weekly 2 hour radio/tv appearance on the Sports Hub. This allows him to connect with potential readers by displaying his understanding of the game and interacting with fans as they can call in and talk to him and the hosts directly. People enjoy that.

 

He was making appearances long before he went off and did BSJ, I believe that's how he built a base.

 

If you have a guy like that it would go a long way for you guys. If you already have a guy going on the air and fielding calls I apologize, I'm not in Buffalo so was just throwing out a friendly suggestion.

 

Good luck.

[SydneyBillsFan]

Happy with the content so far and the cost cannot be an issue to anyone who is not homeless or doesn't sleep under a freeway.

 

Keep up the good work and I'll keep subscribing.

[Charles Romes]

The last time the BN charged for a subscription maybe 3-5 years ago I tried to sign up several times but could not. The subscription sign up interface kept crashing when I tried to register. Since then there is so much more content available from other sites. The only thing that is making me think about signing up again is the incredible play of the team and the need to bask in the glory of the victories. Hopefully the team will keep winning and more people will sign up. I am sure the Bills are the main driver of new subscriptions. When I try to subscribe again my hope is that the registration will be seamless.

[YoloinOhio]

Josh, just saw that Ray Stein is pairing up with Rob Oller to do Scarlett and Gray Matter for tomorrow's Dispatch. I'll send the link (may need subscription though to read)

Here you go! Hopefully you have access to read. I think something like this after Bills games would be very funny.

http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20171007/ohio-state-maryland--scarlet-amp-gray-matter

Edited October 8, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[BillsFan4]

I really like the behind the scenes type pieces, that give us inside info about the team. Stuff that the average fan doesn't have access to. It so interesting to read about that kind of stuff in my opinion.

 

That is a big reason why I read the Buffalo News. I'd love to see more of it.

 

 

 

I also second all of those who have said lighten up on the negativity from some (Jerry and Bucky, I'm looking at you! lol)

 

Edit - thanks for doing this by the way!

Edited October 9, 2017 by BillsFan4

[dave mcbride]

Hi Josh: it would be great if the Bills reporters and columnists evinced more knowledge of stat analysis. Just by way of example, I've seen JS, BG, and VC continually invoke context-less and simplistic stat rankings to judge the Bills. It may sound like I'm shilling here for Football Outsiders, but the BN's reporters should familiarize themselves with their approach and methods, which are really strong. Last year, I felt like I was going to scream every time I read JS mention the Bills' 32nd ranked passing offense, which simply did not capture the reality of where the Bills actually stood beyond a raw yardage measure. The same goes for VC's invocation of Bills' defensive rankings; they were actually far worse than the mid-tier ranking in yardage/points under Rex in 2015-16 if you dig a little deeper.

 

This is something friends of mine talk about a lot in both this and other contexts (everything from politics to movies to whatever): fans are a LOT more knowledgeable than I think a lot of writers assume. It's a breath of fresh air to read someone like Tyler Kepner on baseball in the NYT. More of that, please! More importantly, I think that people expect that now. One of the most persistent criticisms of the BN's coverage here is the thin level of analysis. It has gotten better over the years, but it's still not good enough.

[SDS]

Please refrain from commentary not pertaining to the information Josh has asked for. Thanks.

[NoSaint]

Hi Josh: it would be great if the Bills reporters and columnists evinced more knowledge of stat analysis. Just by way of example, I've seen JS, BG, and VC continually invoke context-less and simplistic stat rankings to judge the Bills. It may sound like I'm shilling here for Football Outsiders, but the BN's reporters should familiarize themselves with their approach and methods, which are really strong. Last year, I felt like I was going to scream every time I read JS mention the Bills' 32nd ranked passing offense, which simply did not capture the reality of where the Bills actually stood beyond a raw yardage measure. The same goes for VC's invocation of Bills' defensive rankings; they were actually far worse than the mid-tier ranking in yardage/points under Rex in 2015-16 if you dig a little deeper.

 

This is something friends of mine talk about a lot in both this and other contexts (everything from politics to movies to whatever): fans are a LOT more knowledgeable than I think a lot of writers assume. It's a breath of fresh air to read someone like Tyler Kepner on baseball in the NYT. More of that, please! More importantly, I think that people expect that now. One of the most persistent criticisms of the BN's coverage here is the thin level of analysis. It has gotten better over the years, but it's still not good enough.

I think, to a degree, there's a reasonable question about the slice of the fan base they are targeting... which can probably only be answered so directly in a public forum but....

 

Is the primary goal to be kind of a 1.5 bills drive (a place that assumes the reader is seeking out a lot of content already and the writers are focusing on providing in depth content through unique access)

 

Or is it targeting the fan the wants a more efficient clearing house where on their Thursday lunch break they can get the talking points on the week without sifting through 6 websites?

[JoshBarnett]

In one of the earlier threads, it was suggested that we do more about gambling trends related to the Bills. We began that today. The weekly piece is for subscribers but since the idea came from this group at TSW, here is what it looks like with the addition of Marc Lawrence to our team. Thoughts?

 

Marc Lawrence previews the NFL from a Vegas perspective. You can follow him online at Playbook.com or @MarcLawrence.

The Bills catch the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in an optimal role this week, according to the betting trends.

• The Bills are 7-0 ATS (against the spread) at home after a bye week following a loss to non-division opponents.
• They also are 6-0-1 ATS in their last seven games against NFC opponents.
• The Buccaneers are 1-10 ATS away in non-division games following an away game when facing a team that they lost to in the previous meeting.
• Tampa Bay is also 0-5 ATS in games before facing the Carolina Panthers.

The pick: Bills over Tampa Bay by 6.

Thanks to their waning offense, the Bills were outgained in their last four contests. That's generally bad news for NFL teams that find themselves favored. However, Tampa Bay has problems of its own as the Bucs allowed Arizona a season-high 432 yards in last week’s 38-33 loss to the Cardinals. It marked the third time this campaign that the Bucs have surrendered season-high yardage in a game. We’d be all over the Bills even more here if their offensive numbers were stronger.

[BadLandsMeanie]

Hello Josh,

Pleased to meet you.

I have some ideas that may or may not fit somebody with your business mission but let me leave deciding if it makes sense or not for TBN to you. That will save me having to outline that I am aware that I may not know what I am talking about more than the one time here at the top. So I would like to carry that idea through down the page please.

I don't see you having asked us what you are doing that we don't like. Well played Sir. It says what should we be doing and what more of? I will stick to that, and saying what I would pay for.

On analysis: From one statistic, on average teams score about 60% touchdowns to 40% field goals. In some cases teams have run more 50-50, with the difference being attributed to a backup QB having to fill in or stuff like that.

So far the Bills have scored 8 touchdowns (7 on offense 1 on defense) against 11 field goals. So that is 42% Tds vs 58% Fgs, which is upside down from the normal average of 60-40.

What is going on there? What does that tell us? (Besides that we have a great kicker)

Next: I used to review the game footage in condensed form after games. So an hour's worth of film, but it would take me three hours to review it.

One sees a whole different game when one does that. And from doing that I would learn that multiple news sources would report things that were not true. Stuff happens too fast in the game to see it without review.

Some examples of hundreds, one team had our silent snap count, somehow. We were using a silent snap count and they knew what it was. I verified that with the coach later and he said the Bills picked up on it and they changed it at the half, which was apparent to me already from the film because it stopped in the second half.

Another: Running back runs along behind the line to the right hand side. Tackle stuck his leg back too far and the RB tripped over it and disappeared into the crowd of guys.

QB turns to the right because the play was designed that he was going to throw to the running back. QB sees no one there, and then got sacked by an unblocked man. I think his name was Pope.

This all happened very very fast and was not easily understood by just seeing the play without my stop motion viewing and finding out what had happened.

What was reported by all was the QB was confused, didn't know where the receiver was supposed to be, and also failed to pick up a blitz which was evident. None of that was true.

What is clear to me is that nobody in the press watches a whole game repeatedly like that and then reports what actually happened. It would make a fascinating weekly column. And I would gladly pay a subscription for that because it would save me 3 hours or more of work.

So that would be good. And more work evident in the reporting in general is something I would be glad to pay for.

Here is another one that is very specific but heck you asked so here is my chance.

I would like a story on who pulled the plug on the Bills message board and why they did not notify or thank or express anything at all to the fans who used it.

About 2,000 of us used that board for 15 years or more and then one day last March, around noon I think, it was just gone. They didn't even tell the people who were running it for free for them, some for over 10 years, what had happened and they didn't email them after either.

Who does something like that? I would like to know! And if it wasn't a whitewash non-answer BS reply accepted without challenge, I will sign up for 6 months of Blitz just to commemorate that one story. You have my word.

Now THAT one might be a great job for Sully.

Next, Shaw66 here writes game summaries that are as good or better than most of what appears in any press. I would add him in there. It is different enough that there wouldn't be much overlap with your other content.

If you were to get me a 2 or 3 days press pass to Camp, I would give you a good story. Maybe more than one. It for sure would be different content. In your place I would do it. If I could get down on the field to move around easier and see more I would probably come out with something quite good.

So there you go. Thanks for your interest in us guys and what we have to say.

Edited October 20, 2017 by BadLandsMeanie