Ragland traded to KC for 4th round 2019 pick

[Wayne Cubed]

 

Lorenzo was the better player and has proven to be a team leader which McD clearly values. He is older but has less wear since he hasn't been a full time starter all these years. We get two good years from him while he mentors the new guys. That's the idea.

 

I'm also not in the "we are tanking" camp, and I think this is one of the pieces of evidence. The leaders are staying on despite their age, because they want guys that will go play their hardest while serving as mentors. McD is also looking for younger guys to be the new leaders. Micah Hyde is one guy who is positioning himself in that role.

I'm not so sure Lorenzo is the better player. He's a player they like more, for whatever reason. Much like Wood, although they signed Groy too.

 

I don't know, this is my first time really doubting the Bills. Suppose it's the 17 years but I'm just not ready to go all in on what they are doing. I don't think I've ever seen a team unload young talent like this regime has.

 

I guess I want to see results before I determine if these guys, with no previous experience at their current jobs, are doing the right thing.

[GoBills808]

One would think that, at some point, Bills fans would stop swallowing the excuse that "it was a prior regime, X player didn't fit anymore" and start holding it against THE FRANCHISE for HISTORICALLY SUCKING for two decades. For pissing away draft picks and constantly changing regimes so that core young talent repeatedly becomes expendable. Do you folks realize how hard it is to miss the playoffs for this long of a stretch?

 

I'll say it again, I think that some of you have given up entirely on the concept of on-field winning and follow the team simply in order to "geek out" during the offseason and the NFL Draft. Fans are happy with the extra draft picks because that means more geeking out in April. It's basically fantasy football, except kinda real.

I guess I don't know what you mean by 'the franchise'...the stadium? The colors? The fans?

 

It's all different, from ownership on down. You have to allow for a learning curve.

[Coach Tuesday]

Fans don't really know what to do anymore except get excited over draft picks because the franchise is that pathetic.

 

It's pretty sad.

 

I'll put it another way: a widget-selling business is struggling. New management is brought in. Instead of capitalizing on the core assets of the company (the widget-making expertise, the factories, supplier networks, etc.), new management's plan is to sell everything and use the sale revenue to purchase an entirely new business infrastructure in a year or two. Maybe we'll sell Cogswheels, maybe we'll sell Hermophones, who knows? We'll figure it out in a year or two!

 

How do you think the shareholders would react to that approach?

 

Management 101: leverage your core strengths. Don't bring in a bunch of coaches who need different players to fit their systems. DON'T HIRE THOSE COACHES. Hire the coaches who have demonstrated the ability to tailor systems around the existing talent.

 

Jeebus H. Cringles, it's not that complicated.

 

Stop giving the Pegulas a free pass, people. They have no clue what they're doing and we are in for 2-4 more years of garbage product. You're gonna pay for that? I'm not - I canceled Sunday Ticket and we gave up our season tickets this year.

 

ENOUGH.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Coach Tuesday

[BmarvB]

He's a better fit for the Chiefs defense than ours. Don't be surprised if he becomes a quality starter for them once he gets settled in there..At least he'll have a better chance of starting in a playoff game with them than he'll have with the Bills. It just wasn't going to happen for him here.

 

Good luck Reggie

[HappyDays]

One would think that, at some point, Bills fans would stop swallowing the excuse that "it was a prior regime, X player didn't fit anymore" and start holding it against THE FRANCHISE for HISTORICALLY SUCKING for two decades. For pissing away draft picks and constantly changing regimes so that core young talent repeatedly becomes expendable. Do you folks realize how hard it is to miss the playoffs for this long of a stretch?

 

I'll say it again, I think that some of you have given up entirely on the concept of on-field winning and follow the team simply in order to "geek out" during the offseason and the NFL Draft. Fans are happy with the extra draft picks because that means more geeking out in April. It's basically fantasy football, except kinda real.

This concept makes no sense. The Bills now and the Bills 5 years ago share 0 similarities except for Kyle Williams and Eric Wood. It has no bearing on what we do now. What Rex/Whaley did (and didn't do) has no bearing on what McBeane does.

[Coach Tuesday]

This concept makes no sense. The Bills now and the Bills 5 years ago share 0 similarities except for Kyle Williams and Eric Wood. It has no bearing on what we do now. What Rex/Whaley did (and didn't do) has no bearing on what McBeane does.

 

The Bills are very lucky to have you as a fan.

[Fadingpain]

So that was a sweet trade up for the Bills.

 

Reggie Ragland cost them a second round pick, and 2 fourth round picks. Parlayed that into 0 games played and 1 fourth round pick in 2019.

 

Maybe it's a fine trade for what he is worth (which appears to be about nothing), but it certainly is quite the indictment on that 2016 selection.

Yes, of course!

 

The funny thing is that so many here supported Whaley for so long and loved the Ragland pick at the time.

 

The same sort of poster was outraged at "Black Friday" a few weeks ago...which is why I have faith it was a great idea.

 

Finally watching the replay of the Ravens game right now....8:16 left in 1st quarter...my God we don't look very good.

[Larry Playfair]

Analysis on what LBs remain/roles: http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/28/reggie-ragland-traded-buffalo-bills-chiefs-instant-analysis/

[IDBillzFan]

I'll ignore the bolded, because it's not germane.

 

We all want to give the Pegula's the chance to "get it right." But it's kinda ironic that you think giving someone a contract extension, not just the Bills, but anyone in the NFL establishes confidence. But we will take a look at the Bills.

 

Rex Ryan was given 5 years, which you'd argue established confidence. He was canned after two years. The next guy getting a 5 year deal may say, "Hey, hold on, I don't think I really have 5 years."

 

Doug Whaley was given a 4 year extension with 3 years already with the team. He was canned after one year. The next guy getting a 4 year extension, with 3 years accrued already may say, "Hey, hold on, I don't think I really have 4 more years. "

 

Which brings me back to my point, that contracts and extensions don't establish as much confidence when you've demonstrated a history of disregarding your previous confidence when handing out those deals.

 

This isn't about pissing on the decision makers. It's about conveying the very real repercussions of their mistakes.

 

Besides, after a while, how fast you move away from bad moves becomes less and less important if you're moving on to another bad move. If the Pegulas get it right with these new guys, great. If they fire them 2 years into 5 year deals, we'll be having this discussion again. And probably looking at bringing in some old NFL corpse retreads to man our front office.

 

Then what would you recommend they do with new coaches and GMs when it comes to contracts? Rent to own?

 

The mistakes made by the Pegulas neither begin nor end with the length of the contract. In fact, the length of the contract doesn't play a role at all EXCEPT to instill confidence, not just in the person you're hiring but the players he hopes to recruit. You can't try to bring a good player or other coaches with you if you sign a two-year deal.

 

The only part of the bad contract that affects anyone is the money, and since it's not your money, it's not part of the conversation.

[r00tabaga]

 

I'll put it another way: a widget-selling business is struggling. New management is brought in. Instead of capitalizing on the core assets of the company (the widget-making expertise, the factories, supplier networks, etc.), new management's plan is to sell everything and use the sale revenue to purchase an entirely new business infrastructure in a year or two. Maybe we'll sell Cogswheels, maybe we'll sell Hermophones, who knows? We'll figure it out in a year or two!

 

How do you think the shareholders would react to that approach?

 

Management 101: leverage your core strengths. Don't bring in a bunch of coaches who need different players to fit their systems. DON'T HIRE THOSE COACHES. Hire the coaches who have demonstrated the ability to tailor systems around the existing talent.

 

Jeebus H. Cringles, it's not that complicated.

 

Stop giving the Pegulas a free pass, people. They have no clue what they're doing and we are in for 2-4 more years of garbage product. You're gonna pay for that? I'm not - I canceled Sunday Ticket and we gave up our season tickets this year.

 

ENOUGH.

Thats a horrible example. If I buy a business and they have pieces that don't work for me, I get rid of possibly good pieces to get RIGHT pieces. That is how a good business is run.

 

OBD brought in the "BOBS".

[Kelly the Dog]

I'll put it another way: a widget-selling business is struggling. New management is brought in. Instead of capitalizing on the core assets of the company (the widget-making expertise, the factories, supplier networks, etc.), new management's plan is to sell everything and use the sale revenue to purchase an entirely new business infrastructure in a year or two. Maybe we'll sell Cogswheels, maybe we'll sell Hermophones, who knows? We'll figure it out in a year or two!

 

How do you think the shareholders would react to that approach?

 

Management 101: leverage your core strengths. Don't bring in a bunch of coaches who need different players to fit their systems. DON'T HIRE THOSE COACHES. Hire the coaches who have demonstrated the ability to tailor systems around the existing talent.

 

Jeebus H. Cringles, it's not that complicated.

 

Stop giving the Pegulas a free pass, people. They have no clue what they're doing and we are in for 2-4 more years of garbage product. You're gonna pay for that? I'm not - I canceled Sunday Ticket and we gave up our season tickets this year.

 

ENOUGH.

Would you rather hire a new manager for your widget company that will make you more money this coming year but is not as good a manager as another guy you believe will make you less money this year but more for the next 10-20 than the first guy?

[IDBillzFan]

Stop giving the Pegulas a free pass, people. They have no clue what they're doing and we are in for 2-4 more years of garbage product. You're gonna pay for that? I'm not - I canceled Sunday Ticket and we gave up our season tickets this year.

 

ENOUGH.

 

So in conclusion, you refuse to pay for season tickets, you refuse to pay for Sunday Ticket...essentially you refuse to have anything to do with this team because the current owners have no clue on how to run the team.

 

So remind us again...why are you here? To get more people to join your exodus?

[TheElectricCompany]

That’s two young, 2^nd round draft picks, that couldn’t fit into our scheme. I’m struggling with that.

Edited August 28, 2017 by TheElectricCompany

[IDBillzFan]

That’s two young, 2^nd round draft picks, that couldn’t fit into our current scheme. I’m struggling with that.

 

Fixed. Should be easier to struggle with now.

[GG]

 

I'll put it another way: a widget-selling business is struggling. New management is brought in. Instead of capitalizing on the core assets of the company (the widget-making expertise, the factories, supplier networks, etc.), new management's plan is to sell everything and use the sale revenue to purchase an entirely new business infrastructure in a year or two. Maybe we'll sell Cogswheels, maybe we'll sell Hermophones, who knows? We'll figure it out in a year or two!

 

How do you think the shareholders would react to that approach?

 

Management 101: leverage your core strengths. Don't bring in a bunch of coaches who need different players to fit their systems. DON'T HIRE THOSE COACHES. Hire the coaches who have demonstrated the ability to tailor systems around the existing talent.

 

Jeebus H. Cringles, it's not that complicated.

 

Stop giving the Pegulas a free pass, people. They have no clue what they're doing and we are in for 2-4 more years of garbage product. You're gonna pay for that? I'm not - I canceled Sunday Ticket and we gave up our season tickets this year.

 

ENOUGH.

 

Your analogy is close, but not exact.

 

It would be better if you said that a new owner buys a company where the manufacturing was good, but the sales team was bad. So he hires a new manager to fix the sales, but at the same time he takes the ax to the manufacturing side. Sales is fixed, but they're selling a crappy product. So a new manager is brought in to fix manufacturing, and he decides to axe the well performing sales team.

 

And I'm not ready to apply that analogy to the players' departure. But I will apply that analogy to McD's coaching choices in keeping Crossman, and adding Castillo & Rico.

Edited August 28, 2017 by GG

[Coach Tuesday]

Would you rather hire a new manager for your widget company that will make you more money this coming year but is not as good a manager as another guy you believe will make you less money this year but more for the next 10-20 than the first guy?

 

But they have no track record to speak of. If they did, perhaps I'd let them drag me through a year or even two years of short-term pain. But my shareholder aren't going to sit quietly while I let a couple of complete nobodies embark on a questionable strategy simply because they promise a payoff in the future...

[LABILLBACKER]

Good move. He has been terrible in the pre-season games. Not a fit in this D at all.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

Your analogy is close, but not exact.

 

It would be better if you said that a new owner buys a company where the manufacturing was good, but the sales team was bad. So he hires a new manager to fix the sales, but at the same time he takes the ax to the manufacturing side. Sales is fixed, but they're selling a crappy product. So a new manager is brought in to fix manufacturing, and he decides to axe the well performing sales team.

 

yes - I like that better!

[GoBills808]

 

I'll put it another way: a widget-selling business is struggling. New management is brought in. Instead of capitalizing on the core assets of the company (the widget-making expertise, the factories, supplier networks, etc.), new management's plan is to sell everything and use the sale revenue to purchase an entirely new business infrastructure in a year or two. Maybe we'll sell Cogswheels, maybe we'll sell Hermophones, who knows? We'll figure it out in a year or two!

 

How do you think the shareholders would react to that approach?

 

Management 101: leverage your core strengths. Don't bring in a bunch of coaches who need different players to fit their systems. DON'T HIRE THOSE COACHES. Hire the coaches who have demonstrated the ability to tailor systems around the existing talent.

 

Jeebus H. Cringles, it's not that complicated.

 

Stop giving the Pegulas a free pass, people. They have no clue what they're doing and we are in for 2-4 more years of garbage product. You're gonna pay for that? I'm not - I canceled Sunday Ticket and we gave up our season tickets this year.

 

ENOUGH.

Don't agree, if only for the fact that coaches have much greater shelf life than players and the respective schemes they happen to fit. All things being equal, I'd rather hire the great coach/GM who can build teams suited to their style than draft great players and hire HCs who cater to their particular strengths and weaknesses.

[LABILLBACKER]

Better to get something rather than nothing. McB want their own players. It's as simple as that.