CountDorkula Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Alot of people underestimate those measurables. If they didnt mean anytging at all the combine wouldnt occur. Mathews 40 is pretty close to Watkins' 40 time too. If the combine really meant anything the "missed draft pick" rate wouldn't be so high in the NFL. The combine is the most overrated, money grab the NFL has done to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 Still had good combine numbers. I think we can all agree that Hardy's mental illness is one of the reasons why he failed in the NFL. Also it's not like he was a late round pick where the Bills reached way up to get him. You can take combine numbers and compare greats to busts, busts to busts, greats to greats. This was just an observation and along with his college production...I feel a little better. Not calling him a future HOF right now or anything..... If the combine really meant anything the "missed draft pick" rate wouldn't be so high in the NFL. The combine is the most overrated, money grab the NFL has done to this day. Money grab? It hasn't always been televised and it was closed to the public for years before the NFL Network got a hold of it. The combine should be evaluated along with game film, production, interview, test scores.... All of these are taken into consideration to evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Alot of people underestimate those measurables. If they didnt mean anytging at all the combine wouldnt occur. Mathews 40 is pretty close to Watkins' 40 time too. Combine numbers show what a player is capable of physically doing. Yes they mean something. But how fast can you move while processing information, and can you process the information correctly. Thats what turns a 4.4 into a 4.6 and a 4.6 into a 4.4 on the field. Same for QB's and arm strength. Its all about how fast and accurately you processes information. Edited August 14, 2017 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Combine numbers show what a player is capable of physically doing. Yes they mean something. But how fast can you move while processing information, and can you process the information correctly. Thats what turns a 4.4 into a 4.6 and a 4.6 into a 4.4 on the field. Same for QB's and arm strength. Its all about how fast and accurately you processes information. For wide receivers, there are a ton of other factors. Sammy was super strong at the LOS so he was hard to jam, and he had the speed to blow off the top if you chose to play press. He also has really good feet for route running, and comes out of his breaks with speed. His hands/eyes were also incredible as he was able to make plays on not great throws. Zay seems to have really good hands, and you don't catch 150+ passes without having some semblance of route running ability. How he handles press man coverage will be a big learning curve in the NFL. Goodwin had very good combine numbers but obviously he wasn't much of a player. the combine doesn't tell the whole story. the first thing scouts look at is the TAPE. the combine numbers are just another tool to help solidify what they see on film. He wasn't a very good route runner, and doesn't come out his breaks with enough speed. That's why he wasn't used a ton over the middle. His hands aren't great, and he honestly wasn't even that good of a deep threat. He had trouble finding the ball in those over the shoulder catches that should be his bread and butter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 For wide receivers, there are a ton of other factors. Sammy was super strong at the LOS so he was hard to jam, and he had the speed to blow off the top if you chose to play press. He also has really good feet for route running, and comes out of his breaks with speed. His hands/eyes were also incredible as he was able to make plays on not great throws. Zay seems to have really good hands, and you don't catch 150+ passes without having some semblance of route running ability. How he handles press man coverage will be a big learning curve in the NFL. Sammy is the total package at WR. He has everything. Zay is a complete unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills757 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) I think people confuse speed and quickness. Watkins is one of the fastest guys out there for sure but IMO he has excellent quickness as well. McCoy has decent straight line speed but his forte, without a doubt, is his elite quickness (and instincts). The guy is a phenomenal talent in that regard. Jones is a very different receiver than Watkins.....doesn't have Watkins' quickness for sure but he does have size...something you just can't teach. Edited August 14, 2017 by Bills757 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyToughII Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 For anyone knows, Z could end up being better than Watkins. No one here knows period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Zay Jones scouting report www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-pff-scouting-report-zay-jones-wr-east-carolina Unless all these reports are wrong, he hasn't shown great separation or big play ability. He compares to Anquan Boldin who was never a deep threat either. Edited August 14, 2017 by Crusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 What I get perplexed about is that Watkins ran a 4.43 at the combine and can stretch the field and has been labeled "fast." All I hear everyone say about Matthews is he's not fast, is a slot and possession receiver... yet he played outside and ran a 4.46 at the combine. And he played outside in college and his YPC in college was slightly higher than Watkins. My point is let's watch football and see how this works in McD's system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCBongo Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 It won't mean anything if TTdoesn't throw them the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elite Poster Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Those are just numbers. Zay can't hold Sammy's lunch in terms of route running and tree. It was well known that he is a limited route runner coming out of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Those are just numbers. Zay can't hold Sammy's lunch in terms of route running and tree. It was well known that he is a limited route runner coming out of the draft. yeah - but he's a lot cheaper for the next 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 For anyone knows, Z could end up being better than Watkins. No one here knows period Remember in Pittsburgh folks couldn't believe they were letting mike Wallace walk? They had this other guy they liked who hadn't started a ton yet, but good player. Antonio Brown ended being an upgrade. It can happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 But he also got behind defensive backs in the Senior Bowl. It's not just the 40....he's faster in the 3 cone and shuttle which "showcases" quickness. He's not as fast as Sammy on the field but being taller and with a big vertical....he's more of a guy you throw it up to go get it as opposed to Sammy just running underneath it. I think Zay will be able to get down field and be a deep threat. Exactly. Jordan Matthew's numbers look the same as Jones'. I think he can go deep too. Fans are over reacting to the Sammy trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 There's no comparison to the game field speed of the two players. Zay is a possession type of receiver. Sammy is a homerun threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I think we can all agree that Hardy's mental illness is one of the reasons why he failed in the NFL. Also it's not like he was a late round pick where the Bills reached way up to get him. You can take combine numbers and compare greats to busts, busts to busts, greats to greats. This was just an observation and along with his college production...I feel a little better. Not calling him a future HOF right now or anything..... Money grab? It hasn't always been televised and it was closed to the public for years before the NFL Network got a hold of it. The combine should be evaluated along with game film, production, interview, test scores.... All of these are taken into consideration to evaluate. Correct, now it is and they now get advertisers to pay $$$$$$ for commercials, $$$$$ to sponsor each event. Fans now get to go and spend money at the event. Its a money grab that the NFL pumping. The combine is garbage. Go look at the top performers at each event and tell me how much it all matters. 99.9% All it proves is a guy works out a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Watkins is a dynamic playmaker who's talent leaps off the screen. There is no way to quantify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perk71 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 But he also got behind defensive backs in the Senior Bowl. It's not just the 40....he's faster in the 3 cone and shuttle which "showcases" quickness. He's not as fast as Sammy on the field but being taller and with a big vertical....he's more of a guy you throw it up to go get it as opposed to Sammy just running underneath it. I think Zay will be able to get down field and be a deep threat. Zay can be Mike Evans "open"..if he has a step just throw it up because he is going to come down with the ball more than likely...his catch radius is ridiculous, dude catches everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I had no clue who Zay Jones was before I heard his name called. That's how little I follow college ball. Then I heard we got great value with him. Your post makes me a little more intrigued. What was the knock on him? His production was at a small school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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