Character & Jordan Matthews

[MarlinTheMagician]

I liked Sammy and wish him the best. But I like this trade for a host of reasons - I know there is a thread on that.

 

What I would like to note in this thread is that with Matthews we get a player of exceptional character and intelligence. A team leader. Google it - I was going to paste in an article on this point, but there are SO many I did not.

 

He is disciplined, he is an incredibly hard worker, he gives back to the community. He is a chiseled, bulldog of a receiver - I can't remember us ever having one quite like him from a physicality standpoint (Moulds maybe, but he was almost more like Sammy with his downfield ability that I don't think Matthews can match). He is a great teammate- check it, article after article says he was one of the most respected men in the Eagles locker room. He is compared to Jordy Nelson, which I would take in a heartbeat. His story is similar to that of Zay Jones, he worked extraordinarily hard to become what he is and I think he reflects what the new administration wants on the field - and in the locker room and off the field. We should welcome him with open arms. A Buffalo kind of guy. Lunch bucket.

Go Bills!

[SWATeam]

I liked Sammy and wish him the best. But I like this trade for a host of reasons - I know there is a thread on that.

 

What I would like to note in this thread is that with Matthews we get a player of exceptional character and intelligence. A team leader. Google it - I was going to paste in an article on this point, but there are SO many I did not.

 

He is disciplined, he is an incredibly hard worker, he gives back to the community. He is a chiseled, bulldog of a receiver - I can't remember us ever having one quite like him from a physicality standpoint (Moulds maybe, but he was almost more like Sammy with his downfield ability that I don't think Matthews can match). He is a great teammate- check it, article after article says he was one of the most respected men in the Eagles locker room. He is compared to Jordy Nelson, which I would take in a heartbeat. His story is similar to that of Zay Jones, he worked extraordinarily hard to become what he is and I think he reflects what the new administration wants on the field - and in the locker room and off the field. We should welcome him with open arms. A Buffalo kind of guy. Lunch bucket.

 

Go Bills!

Like it. Trumps lunch pail.

[MarlinTheMagician]

I will take high character players every time. I believe it is an essential of a winning formula. Because Dick Jauron failed you doubt that? Players that have low work ethic become out of shape and get hurt. Players with low character get suspended. Seems we have a D tackle that would have taught you that.

[KollegeStudnet]

Wasn't Jauron/Levy preaching the same thing?

 

How'd that work out?

 

As long as we don't through money to Dockery and Langston Walker again, I'm good

[GG]

Wasn't Jauron/Levy preaching the same thing?

How'd that work out?

Everything works out the same way when you dont have a franchise QB

[MarlinTheMagician]

And this year should show if TT can be that. If he can't, we have the dry powder to make a run at getting one In the meanwhile, I will take a team with guys like Boldin and Matthews and Zay and Shady. Even TT - incredible work ethic. If the players with good character that you have are not good enough to win you can upgrade the talent through the draft and free agency, but you build a TEAM. If you have a bunch of Percy Harvin/Dareus/Mario types, the team culture will defeat you regardless of what you put on the field.

[Watkins101]

Can we put a RFA tender on him at the end of the year?

[xsoldier54]

Wasn't Jauron/Levy preaching the same thing?

 

How'd that work out?

The difference is that Levy had no clue how to run a front office and Jauron knew nothing about offense. The FO and coaching staff that we have now are veteran FO guys and veteran coordinators. World of difference.

[Fadingpain]

It is now obvious what the organization wants in a wide receiver.

They all now fit the same basic mold---powerful guys who can go up, fight for, and grab a ball.

 

If we can score a QB who can put the ball where it needs to go, and with receivers who can snatch the ball even when well covered, you have a recipe for success in today's NFL.

 

Our Superbowl teams were overflowing with character guys. I agree it's hugely important in team sports.

[MarlinTheMagician]

Sadly, I was only good enough to play this great game through high school. But even then -- you knew who the gamers were in the huddle. Sometimes they were the among the most skilled on the team and sometimes they were not. I want a team full of gamers. It is why we loved Fred. And they need not all be choirboys. LeSean is a gamer. I think Randy Moss was a gamer - his teammates loved him. And a team full of character is a team that is easy to love, which is what I want in my Bills (playoff birth would not suck either).

[Ittakestime]

He is here for one year.

[MarlinTheMagician]

Doesn't matter. Matthews, Gaines, Boldin are the kind of character guys this admin is bringing in.

[SWATeam]

He is here for one year.

Like Watkins in LA?

[26CornerBlitz]

Like Watkins in LA?

 

The Rams will be smart enough to retain him via extension or tag as the #1 WR for Goff.

Edited August 12, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[r00tabaga]

Wasn't Jauron/Levy preaching the same thing?

 

How'd that work out?

Levy won 4 AFC championships. I'd say thats good? Edited August 12, 2017 by r00tabaga

[Ohiostyle]

Gimme an entire team full of talented thugs. The league can't suspend them all. Meanwhile we'll mop the floor with your character team.

[Perry Turtle]

It is now obvious what the organization wants in a wide receiver.

 

They all now fit the same basic mold---powerful guys who can go up, fight for, and grab a ball.

 

If we can score a QB who can put the ball where it needs to go, and with receivers who can snatch the ball even when well covered, you have a recipe for success in today's NFL.

 

Our Superbowl teams were overflowing with character guys. I agree it's hugely important in team sports.

Eventually our Super Bowl teams were seen as having character guys, but it took many years for that perception to take hold, for good reason.

 

Bruce was overweight his rookie year, and didn't start. He was suspended the first 4 games of the 1988 season. He signed an offer letter with Denver when free agency was in its infancy.

 

Jim Kelly signed with the USFL out of college and made it known he didn't want to play for Buffalo. In his early years with Buffalo, he got into all kinds of confrontations in nightclubs. He called out Howard Ballard after being injured, and split the locker room. There was no internet, but there was a vocal undercurrent of fans who wanted to trade him after Reich had success in filling in for the injured starter.

 

Thurman Thomas helped split the Bills in 1989, when he called out Kelly.

 

The point isn't that those Bills weren't character guys, but that they were young and talented, and needed time to mature. Because of their talent, the Bills wisely did not give up on them, and had a coach that could help them develop character.

 

If Watkins was traded because the current management team didn't see him as a character guy, well then that's disappointing, and it's not the way Polian and Levy would have handled the situation.

[SWATeam]

 

The Rams will be smart enough to retain him via extension or tag as the #1 WR for Goff.

If only we had tried to acquire an elite weapon to help develop our less than impressive first round QB.

 

Yep, don't see any Whaley similarities here...

[26CornerBlitz]

If only we had tried to acquire an elite weapon to help develop our less than impressive first round QB.

 

Yep, don't see any Whaley similarities here...

 

Goff = EJ? Is that your contention?

[SWATeam]

Gimme an entire team full of talented thugs. The league can't suspend them all. Meanwhile we'll mop the floor with your character team.

You may want to look within your home state for an example

[MarlinTheMagician]

We have a difference in approach. My character team is jacked and nasty. They are fit. They will wreck your hungover, club-going, suspended and preening prima donnas.

Read an article about Zay Jones' Dad Robert - jacked and nasty, but of the highest character. A gamer.

[C.Biscuit97]

I'm so sick of the phrase "Buffalo guy." My group of friends want talented players. Talent helps you win. This isn't pop warner or high school football.

 

I liked Matthews in the draft. He is a solid type of player. I thought he had a good rookie year. But he was bad last year. The Eagles and their fans couldn't wait to upgrade at receiver. He is a #2 at best.

 

Let's bury the "Buffalo guy" term. Because the "Buffalo guy" loses more often than not at pro sports.

[26CornerBlitz]

Talent wins!

[C.Biscuit97]

If only we had tried to acquire an elite weapon to help develop our less than impressive first round QB.

 

Yep, don't see any Whaley similarities here...

They gave up a 2nd round pick and a dime a dozen cb for 24 yo who had similar stats to Julio Jones through 3 years and was a top 5 pick 3 years ago.

 

It is an absolute homerun for them and might save their GM and QB's jobs.

[SWATeam]

 

Goff = EJ? Is that your contention?

I don't know yet, but he hasn't been good. I just see some similarities in the situation.

 

Personally, I'd rather confirm that I have my guy before making this type of investment. Like the Falcons did. Otherwise Sammy may be wasted.

[C.Biscuit97]

Talent wins!

I mean it's sad it even needs to be said. And it's hilarious how people are acting like Sammy was some bad guy. The people I know in Buffalo said he was a good guy and liked being here.

 

Again, the Eagles couldn't wait to replace Matthews. But he's good enough for Buffalo!

[SWATeam]

They gave up a 2nd round pick and a dime a dozen cb for 24 yo who had similar stats to Julio Jones through 3 years and was a top 5 pick 3 years ago.

 

It is an absolute homerun for them and might save their GM and QB's jobs.

You are leaving out the giant investment that they are going to have to make in order to keep him beyond this year. It is far from a homerun at this point. What if Goff sucks?

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't know yet, but he hasn't been good. I just see some similarities in the situation.

 

Personally, I'd rather confirm that I have my guy before making this type of investment. Like the Falcons did. Otherwise Sammy may be wasted.

I get part of that. But their two WRs were a midget and Robert Woods. That's not good. Now, they have a very good wr core.

 

Hopefully, they won't pull him if he struggles after 4 games and replace him with a bearded coward like the Bills.

You are leaving out the giant investment that they are going to have to make in order to keep him beyond this year. It is far from a homerun at this point. What if Goff sucks?

You pay talent. There's a risk in anything. But getting ba young player with top 5 talent for a pretty average cb and a 2nd round pick is a good risk.

 

Imagine the reaction here if we got Amari Cooper for the same price? We'd be having a parade for Beane.

[Buffalo Boy]

Wasn't Jauron/Levy preaching the same thing?

 

How'd that work out?

Preaching and doing are two different things.

Jerkron?????

You are really using Jerkron as an example

[r00tabaga]

They gave up a 2nd round pick and a dime a dozen cb for 24 yo who had similar stats to Julio Jones through 3 years and was a top 5 pick 3 years ago.

 

It is an absolute homerun for them and might save their GM and QB's jobs.

Are you gonna mention Julio in every post? We're Bills fans, we know who Sammy Watkins is. You don't need to show comparison. Yeah he was hurt, a lot, but elite when healthy.

[C.Biscuit97]

Preaching and doing are two different things.

Jerkron?????

You are really using Jerkron as an example

Jauron's 7-9 finishes might look better after this season.

 

Those teams had very little talent. Rex and McBeane have inherited talented teams and are destroying them.

[mjd1001]

There is no guarantee Matthews plays 16 games, but odds seem better he will than Watkins. So does this make the Bills better this year?

 

Matthews for 16 games...or a healthy Watkins for 4, an injured Watkins for 4, and no Watkins for 4. No guarantee that happens...but odds seem to favor that outcome rather than a healthy Watkins for 16. In this case, are the Bills a better team with Matthews?

[Fadingpain]

Eventually our Super Bowl teams were seen as having character guys, but it took many years for that perception to take hold, for good reason.

 

Bruce was overweight his rookie year, and didn't start. He was suspended the first 4 games of the 1988 season. He signed an offer letter with Denver when free agency was in its infancy.

 

Jim Kelly signed with the USFL out of college and made it known he didn't want to play for Buffalo. In his early years with Buffalo, he got into all kinds of confrontations in nightclubs. He called out Howard Ballard after being injured, and split the locker room. There was no internet, but there was a vocal undercurrent of fans who wanted to trade him after Reich had success in filling in for the injured starter.

 

Thurman Thomas helped split the Bills in 1989, when he called out Kelly.

 

The point isn't that those Bills weren't character guys, but that they were young and talented, and needed time to mature. Because of their talent, the Bills wisely did not give up on them, and had a coach that could help them develop character.

 

If Watkins was traded because the current management team didn't see him as a character guy, well then that's disappointing, and it's not the way Polian and Levy would have handled the situation.

Disagree; no doubt the bickering Bills was a thing at one point in time, but those teams were FILLED with guys who would rather break their arm than lose a football game. You can't teach that and I don't think it "develops" over time. You have it or you don't.

 

All sports are filled with guys like that, and guys not like that.

 

I agree talent trumps "character" but only when talent realizes its full potential.

 

Character and team cohesiveness is almost always at its best, and that is often good enough to beat raw talent if the raw talent decides it is not interested in playing on a given day.

[Buffalo Boy]

I said the same thing in a different thread.

You get the feeling that McD and Beane are on the same page, which is huge.

Having a receiver who can block down field for the run game and, more importantly WANTS to?

HYUGE!!!

[Shaw66]

I liked Sammy and wish him the best. But I like this trade for a host of reasons - I know there is a thread on that.

 

What I would like to note in this thread is that with Matthews we get a player of exceptional character and intelligence. A team leader. Google it - I was going to paste in an article on this point, but there are SO many I did not.

 

He is disciplined, he is an incredibly hard worker, he gives back to the community. He is a chiseled, bulldog of a receiver - I can't remember us ever having one quite like him from a physicality standpoint (Moulds maybe, but he was almost more like Sammy with his downfield ability that I don't think Matthews can match). He is a great teammate- check it, article after article says he was one of the most respected men in the Eagles locker room. He is compared to Jordy Nelson, which I would take in a heartbeat. His story is similar to that of Zay Jones, he worked extraordinarily hard to become what he is and I think he reflects what the new administration wants on the field - and in the locker room and off the field. We should welcome him with open arms. A Buffalo kind of guy. Lunch bucket.

 

Go Bills!

I didn't know this. Beane and McDermott keep talking about the kind of people they want, and Matthews seems like he's in their sweet spot.

[26CornerBlitz]

There is no guarantee Matthews plays 16 games, but odds seem better he will than Watkins. So does this make the Bills better this year?

 

Matthews for 16 games...or a healthy Watkins for 4, an injured Watkins for 4, and no Watkins for 4. No guarantee that happens...but odds seem to favor that outcome rather than a healthy Watkins for 16. In this case, are the Bills a better team with Matthews?

 

No it does not. Look at their respective numbers in each of the 1st two seasons and there's no question who's the better, more productive, and dynamic player. Sammy Watkins by a mile.

[C.Biscuit97]

I said the same thing in a different thread.

You get the feeling that McD and Beane are on the same page, which is huge.

Having a receiver who can block down field for the run game and, more importantly WANTS to?

HYUGE!!!

I mean Beane has to be on the same page as SM since SM is his boss.

There is no guarantee Matthews plays 16 games, but odds seem better he will than Watkins. So does this make the Bills better this year?

 

Matthews for 16 games...or a healthy Watkins for 4, an injured Watkins for 4, and no Watkins for 4. No guarantee that happens...but odds seem to favor that outcome rather than a healthy Watkins for 16. In this case, are the Bills a better team with Matthews?

No. The threat of Sammy opens up so much. The running game is going to suffer and there's going to be a lot fewer big plays.

[SWATeam]

I get part of that. But their two WRs were a midget and Robert Woods. That's not good. Now, they have a very good wr core.

 

Hopefully, they won't pull him if he struggles after 4 games and replace him with a bearded coward like the Bills.

 

You pay talent. There's a risk in anything. But getting ba young player with top 5 talent for a pretty average cb and a 2nd round pick is a good risk.

 

Imagine the reaction here if we got Amari Cooper for the same price? We'd be having a parade for Beane.

The Raiders would never move Cooper because they can actually use him.

 

We have been in the business of adding and paying talented players for years. We do hand out big contracts. We go after Mario, McCoy, Clay, and extend Darius and Hughes. Our problem hasn't been an overall lack of talent, it's been a lack of organizational direction and QB.

 

I am not arguing against Watkins' talent. My point is that from a team building standpoint, it may not have been the best move to hand out a huge contract to a WR. For this team right now.

 

We seem to have a plan in place, beyond just throwing **** at the wall. It may or may not work, lets let it play out.

[nucci]

sick of hearing about character. This is football.....can't have 53 really nice guys on the team

[C.Biscuit97]

The Raiders would never move Cooper because they can actually use him.

 

We have been in the business of adding and paying talented players for years. We do hand out big contracts. We go after Mario, McCoy, Clay, and extend Darius and Hughes. Our problem hasn't been an overall lack of talent, it's been a lack of organizational direction and QB.

 

I am not arguing against Watkins' talent. My point is that from a team building standpoint, it may not have been the best move to hand out a huge contract to a WR. For this team right now.

 

We seem to have a plan in place, beyond just throwing **** at the wall. It may or may not work, lets let it play out.

Fair post. If you bring in a rookie qb, I want to surround them with as much talent as possible to make the transition easier. Sammy would have make a rookie qb's life a lot easier.

 

Clay will probably be gone next year so that's big money off the books. Receiver is more important in the NFL than ever with the way the league is set up. There are plenty of Jordan Matthews. There aren't many Sammy Watkins.