C.Biscuit97 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Pardon me, but this whole "puppet" label is BS. Beane will be responsible for his specific set of duties, setting up an organizational structure and will work in concert with McDermott to get him what he needs on the personnel side. This archaic notion that there is only one "real" hierarchy and all coaches should work beneath and for a GM is outdated and ridiculous. I'm super tired of people positing this notion that there will be some hypothetical moment in which there are two players on the board in the draft - the coach and GM are somehow arguing over who to pick and gee whiz, if the GM isn't the one with final say to end that argument he's a puppet. If there are two players on the board, you follow your board. If you aren't organized enough to have considered the value you place on need/position when considering two players, then you have failed in setting up your draft board. This hypothetical situation is premised on the notion that there is a flawed system in place. If your system is flawed you have a much bigger problem than who gets "final say." We're not talking about some junta or cabal of a group of people making a decision, you're talking about TWO people at the very top of your organization making decisions. If those two people can't agree on a decision, your organization is screwed anyway. The GM got hired after the draft and after they made a decision on a qb. What GM would be cool with this? I don't discount there are other duties that are important. But what is more important than the draft and qb? A coach should never be hired before the GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Joe B's take on Beane having control of the 53: http://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/reports-bills-gm-brandon-beane-to-have-control-of-53-man-roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Joe B's take on Beane having control of the 53: http://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/reports-bills-gm-brandon-beane-to-have-control-of-53-man-roster Gotcha, so it's McBeane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 @viccarucci T. Pegula will say Friday Beane controls #Bills' 53-man roster, per @RapSheet. But they'll follow #Chiefs' model w coach making final call. Hah, great quote. McD: "You can put all the groceries you want in the cart Brandon, I'll still checkout with what I want though." I wouldn't worry too much about accountability or blame, these two are clearly joined at the hip. If they don't have success they'll both be fired at the exact same time in one press conference. There will be no Whaley-Rex-Marrone-Nix "who did what" controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) Gotcha, so it's McBeane! ....just married............ ....if McD is ultimately responsible for between the white stripes, he should have final say who he is coaching IMO........... Edited May 10, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) We lost 6 games last year by one score. If we convert 2 of those this year because of better coaching or better play from some of our key playmakers, then we finish 9-7. Yes, I believe we were talented enough last year to have done better than we did.There is no way of knowing yet if the new system will be better than that of Rex and Rob, but there is definitely reason for optimism. As far as Beane goes, I have heard great things about his ability to evaluate talent, and I am sure he has already started looking at what we currently have, so I hope he is actively involved in the roster creation process. I stand firm in, you are what your record says you are. Sure if a few different things happen, we have a different record. However, in the aire of fairness we have said that a lot over the years. As far as Beane having control, the reason I ask is because a lot of people are so hungup on that one issue is makes no sense. Yet, despite Beane having control of the 53 man roster, there are still fans who are choosing to ignore that. As if in the league where coaches have system and schemes that the wouldn't have input or a heavy influence. Unless disjointed, makes no sense for a GM to force players onto a coach. Edited May 10, 2017 by BillsFan17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 And you believe that Beane will stand up to McD if McD wants a player that Beane disagrees with? Even though the tweet says they will work closely together. What else could that mean? How else could it play out? And if Beane disagrees with McD, isn't he just as "tough to work with" as Whaley supposedly was with his HCs? The way this played out, there is no other way to look at it other than Beane is McD's puppet. . Maybe I am naïve, but I would assume that almost every successful franchise is run with a collaboration between head coach and general manager. The trick is that they to share a similar vision and have an understanding about how to get there. I stand firm in, you are what your record says you are. Sure if a few different things happen, we have a different record. However, in the aire of fairness we have said that a lot over the years. As far as Beane having control, the reason I ask is because a lot of people are so hungup on that one issue is makes no sense. Yet, despite Beane having control of the 53 man roster, there are still fans who are choosing to ignore that. . I agree there is no added benefit to losing a close one and we often spend time late in the season saying if only these 2 or 3 games had gone differently. But hopefully coaching can help close the gap in close games going forward. Time will tell. It sounds like you and I are in agreement regarding the GM, coach relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Hah, great quote. McD: "You can put all the groceries you want in the cart Brandon, I'll still checkout with what I want though." I wouldn't worry too much about accountability or blame, these two are clearly joined at the hip. If they don't have success they'll both be fired at the exact same time in one press conference. There will be no Whaley-Rex-Marrone-Nix "who did what" controversy. THAT, at least, will be refreshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I think I'm the only one who doesn't care about the 53. They are clearly working together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I think I'm the only one who doesn't care about the 53. They are clearly working together. You seem to be missing the point....this is a PERFECT opportunity to complain! I'm with you, if they are on the same page, and they are both happy with the arrangement, why should anyone else care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 You seem to be missing the point....this is a PERFECT opportunity to complain! I'm with you, if they are on the same page, and they are both happy with the arrangement, why should anyone else care? ...seriously Augie??....really think this will put an end to complaining?......even medical marijuana ain't gonna soothe the "24/7/365 Beotch Gang"........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I think it is possible that a GM under a coach could be a GM. The Seattle situation Pete Carroll lets his GM operate even though Pete technically has final say. But I think McDermott doesn't strike me as the collaborative type. I believe Dorsey also didn't know Reid before he was hired, just like Carroll wasn't buddies with Schneider. So if the Bills are following a model it looks more like the Chip Kelly model. Andy Reid and John Dorsey both worked together in Green Bay for years. Reid was hired 1st, and then Dorsey a few weeks later. It was said that Andy Reid specifically requested John Dorsey for the GM role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 All we are saying...is give Beane a chance. well done ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) Andy Reid and John Dorsey both worked together in Green Bay for years. Reid was hired 1st, and then Dorsey a few weeks later. It was said that Andy Reid specifically requested John Dorsey for the GM role. What years were those? I looked up Wikipedia and maybe late 90's? The Seattle Seahawks though I am pretty sure Carroll and Schneider never worked together. Edited May 10, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 What years were those? Reid was with Green Bay from 1992 to 1998, Dorsey was with Green Bay from 1991-1998. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 What years were those? I looked up Wikipedia and maybe late 90's? The Seattle Seahawks though I am pretty sure Carroll and Schneider never worked together. Dorsey worked for the Packers the entire time Reid was there from '92-'98. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Dorsey worked for the Packers the entire time Reid was there from '92-'98. Ok, cool. It was the Seattle situation I wanted the Bills to follow where Pete Carroll did a real GM search and found Schneider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I think that IF the s hits the fan, both McD and Beane will be fired - this is a package deal. Unless maybe we have a star filled team and McD just can't coach (which I find hard to believe from all that I've read about the guy) then MABYE just McD gets canned, but I think both will be held accountable. I also think (or at least hope) they'll be given 4 - 5 years to prove themselves and their ways. By all accounts Beane and McD have worked together in the past and have a very solid working relationship. Whaley seemingly had issues with ALL of our past coaches, so maybe he earned his "tough to work with" rep. In the end, everyone the past regime was held accountable - literally almost everyone was FIRED! I'd bet Overdorff is next and it sounds like Russ may be losing a little sway. The Pegula's aren't afraid to make moves... Better not take that long. Bills were 4-12 in 1986 and 12-4 in 1988. Why can't we win quickly.....When Marv was hired his line was....we're going to get as good as we can as fast as we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Ok, cool. It was the Seattle situation I wanted the Bills to follow where Pete Carroll did a real GM search and found Schneider. Yeah I think it's pretty clear McDermott is modeling the Bills after Andy Reid and his philosophies. I get wanting to see a more extensive GM search. I can't say I wouldn't have liked to see that. But there's a lot worse coaches to model things after.... I'll be pretty damn happy if McDermott and Beane turn out to be anything like Reid and Dorsey in KC. I sure like it better than the jumbled mess of crap that has been the Bills front office and coaching staff the last decade + At least we seem to have a clear plan now, and it's brought about a lot of meaningful change at One Bills Drive. Ralph's old boy's club lifers are almost all gone now. Only what, 2 left? And I think - is on his way out the door momentarily, and the other I ink has been more/less neutered, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Yeah I think it's pretty clear McDermott is modeling the Bills after Andy Reid and his philosophies. I get wanting to see a more extensive GM search. I can't say I wouldn't have liked to see that. But there's a lot worse coaches to model things after.... I'll be pretty damn happy if McDermott and Beane turn out to be anything like Reid and Dorsey in KC. I sure like it better than the jumbled mess of crap that has been the Bills front office and coaching staff the last decade + At least we seem to have a clear plan now, and it's brought about a lot of meaningful change at One Bills Drive. Ralph's old boy's club lifers are almost all gone now. Only what, 2 left? And I think - is on his way out the door momentarily, and the other I ink has been more/less neutered, so... Really? How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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