Could Derek Barnett wind up being the sleeper pick of them a

[Blokestradamus]

Thomas could fall to 10 and make the Bills think hard. I continue to believe that SF has been smokescreening and likes Trubinsky (he's a Cousins clone). If SF passes on Thomas he could fall to us. He's not a position of glaring need but how do you pass up a player like him (or Allen for that matter)? You can't have too many impact defensive linemen IMO.

 

I'd get the logic behind selecting Thomas if he's on the board. I'm not his biggest fan but he fits McDermott's type (especially with Jerry having an out in his deal after 2017). Allen is one of the few first round guys in this class that I haven't pinged for his relative lack of athletic ability. He's not a poor athlete by any means but he's so technically advanced that it trumps him only hitting certain benchmarks. If they go down the 3-tech route, I'd prefer Malik McDowell but won't grumble about Allen too much.

 

The Panthers built on the front 7 under Rivera/McDermott, I'd expect that to continue.

[GunnerBill]

http://gridironnow.com/draft-analyst-derek-barnett-will-lead-league-sacks-myles-garrett/

 

I am with Bucky. I value hands almost more than anything else for pass rushers, it is one of the reasons I loved Shaq. I think Barnett's hands are the best of any rusher in this draft.

[Kaenon]

I think we take Barnett if available at 10 over WR.

 

 

I'm not yet sold on Williams, Davis and Ross - especially Top 10.

 

Barnett had like 28 sacks against SEC teams versus what, 11 for Garrett?

 

I'm an Aggie fan by association of living near here and I think the talent gap is small between Garrett, Thomas and Barnett. I personally like Thomas the best, but he is in a different mold of a player. I see him more as a Justin Smith versus say a pure edge rusher.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Kaenon

[8-8 Forever?]

It's not a need persay, but could Barnett be the best available player at 10?

 

And would you like this pick?

 

Cause it's going to be awfully difficult to trade down

 

just trade down for whatever someone will offer. its a tank year, so anyone will do in round 1

[BillsFan17]

 

This pass rush class is Myles Garrett and a bunch of other dudes. I wouldn't touch another edge guy after Myles until the 20's at the earliest and wouldn't touch Barnett/Watt/McKinley/Lawson/Taco until the 2nd.

 

Shaq would be DE2 in this class.

Yet Taco literally had the same production this past season as Garrett.

 

Barnett broke records held by Reggie White and has a smiling body of work in terms of production and disruption in the back field.

 

Charles Harris has been an absolute best in the backfield the past two years.

 

I'm not to sure you watch much college football or if you regurgitate the media rankings.

[Blokestradamus]

Yet Taco literally had the same production this past season as Garrett.

 

Barnett broke records held by Reggie White and has a smiling body of work in terms of production and disruption in the back field.

 

Charles Harris has been an absolute best in the backfield the past two years.

 

I'm not to sure you watch much college football or if you regurgitate the media rankings.

 

Pretty sure you just talked stats at me, son. I'd wind your neck in.

[thebandit27]

Yet Taco literally had the same production this past season as Garrett.

 

Barnett broke records held by Reggie White and has a smiling body of work in terms of production and disruption in the back field.

 

Charles Harris has been an absolute best in the backfield the past two years.

 

I'm not to sure you watch much college football or if you regurgitate the media rankings.

 

If you're accusing Blokes of "regurgitating" media rankings, then you haven't been paying attention.

 

This dude lives and breathes player evaluation.

 

You don't have to agree with him (he and I have some great debates over players), but his work is outstanding; his player evaluations are must-read material.

[Mark Vader]

 

Pretty sure you just talked stats at me, son. I'd wind your neck in.

 

 

 

If you're accusing Blokes of "regurgitating" media rankings, then you haven't been paying attention.

 

This dude lives and breathes player evaluation.

 

You don't have to agree with him (he and I have some great debates over players), but his work is outstanding; his player evaluations are must-read material.

Challenge accepted!

 

Alright Blokes, what is it about Derek Barnett, Taco Charlton & Charles Harris that has you giving them less than 1st round grades?

[BillsFan17]

 

Pretty sure you just talked stats at me, son. I'd wind your neck in.

Son?

[liverpoolkev]

Barnett is what we wish Lawson would become, I'm afraid the pick would be to redundant for GM on a slippery slope.

Only if he is the best player available ......Sorry hockey lovers this isn't Murray . Whaley know what he is dong

[Watkins_deep]

Barnett to me just lacks the athleticism. He's a high motor guy with big production but I just wonder how it will transfer?

he was sick at the combine....

[Logic]

I want no part of Barnett, and it has nothing to do with the fact that DE isn't as big of a "need" for the Bills as other positions.

It has entirely to do with the fact that Barnett as average to below average athletically for the position. He's a Bjoern Werner with better college production. NOTHING about him is special athletically. Winning with your hands is something you can teach to a superior athlete. You cannot, however, teach superior athleticism to someone who can win with his hands.

No to Barnett.

[Coach Tuesday]

I want no part of Barnett, and it has nothing to do with the fact that DE isn't as big of a "need" for the Bills as other positions.

 

It has entirely to do with the fact that Barnett as average to below average athletically for the position. He's a Bjoern Werner with better college production. NOTHING about him is special athletically. Winning with your hands is something you can teach to a superior athlete. You cannot, however, teach superior athleticism to someone who can win with his hands.

 

No to Barnett.

 

I'm just saying - the same things were said about JJ Watt. I haven't watched enough of Barnett to know whether he's more like Werner or more like Watt, I'm just saying...

[Watkins_deep]

I want no part of Barnett, and it has nothing to do with the fact that DE isn't as big of a "need" for the Bills as other positions.

 

It has entirely to do with the fact that Barnett as average to below average athletically for the position. He's a Bjoern Werner with better college production. NOTHING about him is special athletically. Winning with your hands is something you can teach to a superior athlete. You cannot, however, teach superior athleticism to someone who can win with his hands.

 

No to Barnett.

again sick at the combine.

 

I dont really care about the combine. Ever since seeing suggs and simeon rice run 5.0 idc anymore. ( regular ppl dont understand how fast 4.9 4.8 is

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Seen the Peter King mock..hmnn.No thanks

[BuffaloHokie13]

Isn't he a bit small for what McD likes at DE?

[dave mcbride]

If he's really that good, I don't have a problem taking a DE who is a beast at getting to the qb. No problem at all.

[wppete]

I really like Barnett. He's going to be a great pro. Amazing motor and great technique. I wouldn't be mad if we picked him at 10.

[dave mcbride]

I want no part of Barnett, and it has nothing to do with the fact that DE isn't as big of a "need" for the Bills as other positions.

 

It has entirely to do with the fact that Barnett as average to below average athletically for the position. He's a Bjoern Werner with better college production. NOTHING about him is special athletically. Winning with your hands is something you can teach to a superior athlete. You cannot, however, teach superior athleticism to someone who can win with his hands.

 

No to Barnett.

I see where you're coming from, but the same was said about Terrell Suggs. All he has done since coming into the NFL is dominate.

[Coach Tuesday]

I see where you're coming from, but the same was said about Terrell Suggs. All he has done since coming into the NFL is dominate.

 

Funny you should bring up Suggs:

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2017/sackseer-2017

[Watkins_deep]

I see where you're coming from, but the same was said about Terrell Suggs. All he has done since coming into the NFL is dominate.

Its not even a relevant comparison because barnett was sick

[Blokestradamus]

Its not even a relevant comparison because barnett was sick

 

And did even worse at his Pro Day, more than 6 weeks later.

[Cripple Creek]

Barnett is what we wish Lawson would become, I'm afraid the pick would be to redundant for GM on a slippery slope.

Lucky for us the slippery GM doesn't get the final say.

[Blokestradamus]

Challenge accepted!

 

Alright Blokes, what is it about Derek Barnett, Taco Charlton & Charles Harris that has you giving them less than 1st round grades?

 

Since, unlike some others, you asked nicely, I'm happy to oblige because I'm a lovely fella

 

I've already gone into the athletic restrictions on Barnett which is a big part of why he's outside the 1st round for me. He's also a snap jumper and lines up offside a ton (which isn't always called). As Gunner said, his hands are really impressive (up there with Jon Allen for sheer brutality) and he plays with a high motor. I think he can be a 6-8 sack type of guy but I'm not investing a premium pick into that type of player.

 

Taco is an interesting player because he's got really solid hands and he has the length that allows him room to work them. I think he's still fundamentally quite raw but he's not at the peak of his powers yet. He can be a quality speed-to-power rusher from the LDE spot but I don't see a lot of bend with him. He needs to develop some consistency with his counters because he has to win with power/technique rather than with athletic ability. Can be a really good player by Year 2-3 but his body of work leaves him as a project for now. If he made it to 44, I'd bite your hand off for him.

 

Harris is the one I struggle with the most because the coaching changed at Mizzou last year and he struggled. He was well taught under Craig Kuligowski until the end of 2015 so you hope that he's not a problem child buying into a new system. His spin move is the trump card but his testing was borderline atrocious (even with his improvement at his Pro Day, it was only comparable to Yannick Ngakoue). He definitely plays faster/more agile than he tests though. Like Ngakoue (8 sacks as a rookie), I think he's fairly one-dimensional for now and suited to being a designated pass rusher. I think he's scheme-versatile as well, which boosts his stock.

 

Just because I don't have a 1st rounder on a player doesn't mean that I hate him. It's just that athleticism on the edge matters and I can't take Barnett/Harris really early because they fall short of certain benchmarks. That's not to say that they can't be good players and, if I'm wrong on them, I'll admit to my mistakes.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Since, unlike some others, you asked nicely, I'm happy to oblige because I'm a lovely fella

 

I've already gone into the athletic restrictions on Barnett which is a big part of why he's outside the 1st round for me. He's also a snap jumper and lines up offside a ton (which isn't always called). As Gunner said, his hands are really impressive (up there with Jon Allen for sheer brutality) and he plays with a high motor. I think he can be a 6-8 sack type of guy but I'm not investing a premium pick into that type of player.

 

Taco is an interesting player because he's got really solid hands and he has the length that allows him room to work them. I think he's still fundamentally quite raw but he's not at the peak of his powers yet. He can be a quality speed-to-power rusher from the LDE spot but I don't see a lot of bend with him. He needs to develop some consistency with his counters because he has to win with power/technique rather than with athletic ability. Can be a really good player by Year 2-3 but his body of work leaves him as a project for now. If he made it to 44, I'd bite your hand off for him.

 

Harris is the one I struggle with the most because the coaching changed at Mizzou last year and he struggled. He was well taught under Craig Kuligowski until the end of 2015 so you hope that he's not a problem child buying into a new system. His spin move is the trump card but his testing was borderline atrocious (even with his improvement at his Pro Day, it was only comparable to Yannick Ngakoue). He definitely plays faster/more agile than he tests though. Like Ngakoue (8 sacks as a rookie), I think he's fairly one-dimensional for now and suited to being a designated pass rusher. I think he's scheme-versatile as well, which boosts his stock.

 

Just because I don't have a 1st rounder on a player doesn't mean that I hate him. It's just that athleticism on the edge matters and I can't take Barnett/Harris really early because they fall short of certain benchmarks. That's not to say that they can't be good players and, if I'm wrong on them, I'll admit to my mistakes.

Sounds to me that you are just regurgitating media rankings...

[BillsFan17]

Sounds to me that you are just regurgitating media rankings...

Pretty much

[Blokestradamus]

Sounds to me that you are just regurgitating media rankings...

 

Draft week is a good time to be a corporate shill. Brother is making some serious coin

Pretty much

 

Explain to me how I'm doing that when I'm lower on half a dozen pass rushers than the media is. If anything, accuse me of being contrarian for the sake of it. Neither are true but that one makes sense at least.

[BillsFan17]

 

Draft week is a good time to be a corporate shill. Brother is making some serious coin

 

 

Explain to me how I'm doing that when I'm lower on half a dozen pass rushers than the media is. If anything, accuse me of being contrarian for the sake of it. Neither are true but that one makes sense at least.

The point is you think I'm serious. I come on these message boards for fun and because I live in NC and need somewhere to talk bills. More often than not we run into the Internet tough guys who feel the need to protect their opinion as if it's their first born.

 

However, I find it hard to take someone serious when they call me "son" and tell me to wind down my neck...

Edited April 26, 2017 by BillsFan17

[Blokestradamus]

The poem is you think I'm serious. I come on these message boards for fun and because I live in NC and need somewhere to talk bills. More often than not we run into the Internet tough guys who feel the need to protect their opinion as if it's their first born.

 

However, I find it hard to take someone serious when they call me "son" and tell me to wind down my neck...

 

I've written on prospects for a few years, having been paid to do so. You're damn right I take my opinion and what I put out seriously. I take pride in putting time into watching prospects because it's something I enjoy. I started doing it when I suffered badly with depression and needed a hobby to keep myself from being bored.

 

I take any and all comments that I don't watch players as an insult. When others asked for explanations, I gave them. You waded in acting like an idiot and talking down to you is all you deserved.

[BillsFan17]

 

I've written on prospects for a few years, having been paid to do so. You're damn right I take my opinion and what I put out seriously. I take pride in putting time into watching prospects because it's something I enjoy. I started doing it when I suffered badly with depression and needed a hobby to keep myself from being bored.

 

I take any and all comments that I don't watch players as an insult. When others asked for explanations, I gave them. You waded in acting like an idiot and talking down to you is all you deserved.

Talk down to me? On a message board.

 

If you had an ounce of professionalism for someone who gets paid for their prosecution reviews...

 

I mean, yeah, go ahead "talk down to me." I'll go ahead and wind down my neck... lmao do you buddy

[Cripple Creek]

Talk down to me? On a message board.

 

If you had an ounce of professionalism for someone who gets paid for their prosecution reviews...

 

I mean, yeah, go ahead "talk down to me." I'll go ahead and wind down my neck... lmao do you buddy

He's a lawyer too?

[BillsFan17]

He's a lawyer too?

Terrific, what does that have to do with coming onto a message board and acting like that?

 

I have drunkenly interacted with various media members making far more outlandish statements and goofing off and I can't recall any of them calling me son or telling me to wind down my neck.

 

If anything they brush it off or understand the context of the comments.

 

I have no idea who watches film, who watches YouTube, who copy and pastes various media out lets, etc...

 

Therefore, if my comment on a buffalo bills message board rubs you the wrong way, you can either ignore it or if you want that big time clout ON A MESSAGE BOARD... maybe you don't use terminology like wind down your neck?

[Cripple Creek]

Terrific, what does that have to do with coming onto a message board and acting like that?

 

I have drunkenly interacted with various media members making far more outlandish statements and goofing off and I can't recall any of them calling me son or telling me to wind down my neck.

 

If anything they brush it off or understand the context of the comments.

 

I have no idea who watches film, who watches YouTube, who copy and pastes various media out lets, etc...

 

Therefore, if my comment on a buffalo bills message board rubs you the wrong way, you can either ignore it or if you want that big time clout ON A MESSAGE BOARD... maybe you don't use terminology like wind down your neck?

I have never wound down my neck, doesn't sound therapeutic at all. Your disposition might improve if you do hit the Zima, just sayin.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

He is a solid player,13 sacks past season. I would not cry about it.I`m starting to lean towards Reddick or Davis.

[Blokestradamus]

Talk down to me? On a message board.

 

If you had an ounce of professionalism for someone who gets paid for their prosecution reviews...

 

I mean, yeah, go ahead "talk down to me." I'll go ahead and wind down my neck... lmao do you buddy

 

All I did was offer an opinion, just like I do on most prospects/topics. I'm happy to explain myself if anyone has a question. After all, I'm the sad !@#$er that watches a ton of CFB and gets his rocks off from message board notoriety

 

I don't think I'm some big shot, I'm the most self-deprecating guy around these parts and crack jokes about my failed evaluations regularly. Some people here appreciate my thoughts and I provide them. If you don't, that's wonderful. Healthy disagreement is a beautiful thing.

 

You're absolutely within your rights to disagree, I merely don't take kindly to the way you approached this. Perhaps I shouldn't respond in kind but, frankly, I don't care enough to bite my tongue.

[BillsFan17]

 

All I did was offer an opinion, just like I do on most prospects/topics. I'm happy to explain myself if anyone has a question. After all, I'm the sad !@#$er that watches a ton of CFB and gets his rocks off from message board notoriety

 

I don't think I'm some big shot, I'm the most self-deprecating guy around these parts and crack jokes about my failed evaluations regularly. Some people here appreciate my thoughts and I provide them. If you don't, that's wonderful. Healthy disagreement is a beautiful thing.

 

You're absolutely within your rights to disagree, I merely don't take kindly to the way you approached this. Perhaps I shouldn't respond in kind but, frankly, I don't care enough to bite my tongue.

Hey, free speech, do you. I am not saying you aren't entitled to pop off at any given time. Doesn't bother me one bit. Clearly you were offended, I didn't think for a second that would be interupted to that extent.

 

I say absurd stuff all the time, I figured most would remember me from BBMB. Member there since back in '04 (BillsFan, no 17 on the end at BBMB) so I was pretty well known in regards to my types of posts.

 

The draft season tends to bring out all sides of people it seems.

 

Hell, watch this tho, I'll even apologize if I offended you. I don't need any Internet validation. I will apologize if what I said bothered you to that extent.

Edited April 26, 2017 by BillsFan17

[CEN-CAL17]

For the Bills NO....

 

But I do believe he will be the 10th pick.

 

As of now I feel the Saints want him. Bills will look to trade down and this will be the reason why, a team jumping the Saints to get Barnett.

[BillsFan17]

For the Bills NO....

 

But I do believe he will be the 10th pick.

 

As of now I feel the Saints want him. Bills will look to trade down and this will be the reason why, a team jumping the Saints to get Barnett.

I had the Saints going with one of the OSU corners. However, I feel like Conley might drop with these ALLEGATIONS against him.

 

Now I have Harris out of Mizzu. I think Barnett could end up going as high as four to the Jags.

[Watkins_deep]

 

And did even worse at his Pro Day, more than 6 weeks later.

bad hamstring...

[Blokestradamus]

Hey, free speech, do you. I am not saying you aren't entitled to pop off at any given time. Doesn't bother me one bit. Clearly you were offended, I didn't think for a second that would be interupted to that extent.

 

I say absurd stuff all the time, I figured most would remember me from BBMB. Member there since back in '04 (BillsFan, no 17 on the end at BBMB) so I was pretty well known in regards to my types of posts.

 

The draft season tends to bring out all sides of people it seems.

 

Hell, watch this tho, I'll even apologize if I offended you. I don't need any Internet validation. I will apologize if what I said bothered you to that extent.

 

I was a prick on BBMB for a long time with insults and infractions galore. I've held myself in check a lot better here because I love having a place to get into discussions and debates. This **** gets old real fast these days

 

Chalk it up to experience for both of us. No hard feelings on my part but you got under my skin fast with that. One of the few things that gets my back up and brings out the hostility. I don't have much but my word is something I take pride in.

 

I'll know better for next time. It's just difficult to pick up context through text and I probably jumped the gun, so I'm sorry for that.