Minus the obvious...what would you like to see this year?

[GunnerBill]

I think that Dave's point is that we if you want to see the pass yards improve, you will. It isn't necessarily the function of being better though, it's because they will throw the ball more in Dennison's offense. At the same time, I fully expect the run game to be worse.

But likely won't see it be top 10 which is what Estro was saying, to him, in answer to the question was what he wanted to see.

[indiragandhi'sthong]

What would I like to see? Russ Brandon's head on a spike outside the offices at One Bills Drive.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

What would I like to see? Russ Brandon's head on a spike outside the offices at One Bills Drive.

....so you're against his statue next to Ralph's I presume................

[JohnC]

But likely won't see it be top 10 which is what Estro was saying, to him, in answer to the question was what he wanted to see.

What Kirby fails to see is even if TT throws more and accumulates better passing stats it still won't rise to the level of being good enough to seriously compete with playoff caliber teams. Anyone who has watched TT for the past two years recognizes the obvious: He can't throw the full repertoire of plays in the passing game. He also lacks a vision to run a sophisticated passing game that calls for progressions, seam throws, middle field throws and anticipatory throws.

 

Too many people such as Kirby and others blame the coaches for their truncated offensive game plans. They are missing the mark with the direction of their critical arrows. The coaches were acting smartly in doing their best to work with the limitations that TT presented.

 

TT is far from being a disastrous qb. That certainly would be an unfair characterization. But the inescapable truth is that the ceiling for his game is not good enough to rise to the level of directing this stuttering team to being anything better than average.. Some people are satisfied with that limited goal while I am not.

[Kirby Jackson]

But likely won't see it be top 10 which is what Estro was saying, to him, in answer to the question was what he wanted to see.

Agreed. I'm thinking that we are looking at about 6 more attempts a game and expect the YPA to go up between a quarter to a half a yard with a healthy Watkins and new #2. That would put the Bills somewhere between like 235-245 yards a game. That would put them right around the middle of the league.

 

I am thinking that the rushing yards per game will go from 165 to 140 ish. I think that the attempts will drop by like 3. I guess that means I am expecting the Bills to run roughly 3 more plays a game this year. The run game will still be good but not as good. If my math is right I am thinking about 375 yards of offense per game. That would put them near the top 5 (up from 16) and 20 yards a game more.

 

Again that may be a little aggressive but when I work it through in my head it makes sense.

What Kirby fails to see is even if TT throws more and accumulates better passing stats it still won't rise to the level of being good enough to seriously compete with playoff caliber teams. Anyone who has watched TT for the past two years recognizes the obvious: He can't throw the full repertoire of plays in the passing game. He also lacks a vision to run a sophisticated passing game that calls for progressions, seam throws, middle field throws and anticipatory throws.

 

Too many people such as Kirby and others blame the coaches for their truncated offensive game plans. They are missing the mark with the direction of their critical arrows. The coaches were acting smartly in doing their best to work with the limitations that TT presented.

 

TT is far from being a disastrous qb. That certainly would be an unfair characterization. But the inescapable truth is that the ceiling for his game is not good enough to rise to the level of directing this stuttering team to being anything better than average.. Some people are satisfied with that limited goal while I am not.

Houston, Miami and KC were "playoff caliber" teams. Their QBs have put up worse numbers over the last 2 years than ours. TT has made more plays and less mistakes than all of those guys. I've laid the numbers out 1,000,000 times. What am I failing to see? The facts are the facts. No one is saying that he is perfect but I'm not the one missing the mark on "playoff caliber" QB play. Edited April 22, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[PolishDave]

What Kirby fails to see is even if TT throws more and accumulates better passing stats it still won't rise to the level of being good enough to seriously compete with playoff caliber teams. Anyone who has watched TT for the past two years recognizes the obvious: He can't throw the full repertoire of plays in the passing game. He also lacks a vision to run a sophisticated passing game that calls for progressions, seam throws, middle field throws and anticipatory throws.

 

Too many people such as Kirby and others blame the coaches for their truncated offensive game plans. They are missing the mark with the direction of their critical arrows. The coaches were acting smartly in doing their best to work with the limitations that TT presented.

 

TT is far from being a disastrous qb. That certainly would be an unfair characterization. But the inescapable truth is that the ceiling for his game is not good enough to rise to the level of directing this stuttering team to being anything better than average.. Some people are satisfied with that limited goal while I am not.

 

Nope. You are just wrong.

 

What you did is made up your mind about something and then twisted what you see into proof of what you want to be true.

 

The truth of the matter is that all of Roman's passing attacks resulted in near league bottom passing yards. That is irrefutable.

 

You can claim that it wasn't by design. But you would find yourself wrong if you just looked at the stats objectively. You can't do it that many years in a row by accident. It has always been by design even when he had Alex Smith at QB completing 70% of his passes. Think about that.

 

That offense was never re-designed to hide QB flaws as a handful of you guys have tried to argue. It was Roman's offense in its most evolved state. That is why it was so successful at moving the ball on the ground. The guy was very very good at designing a running attack. He always has been.

 

The one week a player (a.k.a Sammy Watkins) called out the offense for focusing too much on the running game and not enough on the passing game - the Bills' passing game took a major step forward with the same damn personnel it had all year.

 

Hmm.....

 

There isn't a fan here who knows what Tyrod's ceiling is in a normal (more balanced) offense that actually emphasizes a passing attack because that offense was as unbalanced towards running as the NFL gets.

 

And when we finally did get a glimpse of a game (2nd Miami) where it was obvious they spent the whole week working on their passing attack leading up to that game, it looked pretty darn good.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

What Kirby fails to see is even if TT throws more and accumulates better passing stats it still won't rise to the level of being good enough to seriously compete with playoff caliber teams. Anyone who has watched TT for the past two years recognizes the obvious: He can't throw the full repertoire of plays in the passing game. He also lacks a vision to run a sophisticated passing game that calls for progressions, seam throws, middle field throws and anticipatory throws.

 

Too many people such as Kirby and others blame the coaches for their truncated offensive game plans. They are missing the mark with the direction of their critical arrows. The coaches were acting smartly in doing their best to work with the limitations that TT presented.

 

TT is far from being a disastrous qb. That certainly would be an unfair characterization. But the inescapable truth is that the ceiling for his game is not good enough to rise to the level of directing this stuttering team to being anything better than average.. Some people are satisfied with that limited goal while I am not.

 

......nice job....a very valid and objective assessment....certainly it is only year 3 as a starter, but year 7 in the league....adapting to the speed and complexity of the game at this level are mental or "gray matter" attributes......and I'm not sure how of IF you can "re-train the brain"...still believe you need a balanced offense to win in this league....HC needs to be able to counter with whatever the defense is taking away from him....a limited, restricted or predictable passing game won't cut it IMO...............

Edited April 22, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[JohnC]

 

Nope. You are just wrong.

 

What you did is made up your mind about something and then twisted what you see into proof of what you want to be true.

 

The truth of the matter is that all of Roman's passing attacks resulted in near league bottom passing yards. That is irrefutable.

 

You can claim that it wasn't by design. But you would find yourself wrong if you just looked at the stats objectively. You can't do it that many years in a row by accident. It has always been by design even when he had Alex Smith at QB completing 70% of his passes. Think about that.

 

That offense was never re-designed to hide QB flaws as a handful of you guys have tried to argue. It was Roman's offense in its most evolved state. That is why it was so successful at moving the ball on the ground. The guy was very very good at designing a running attack. He always has been.

 

The one week a player (a.k.a Sammy Watkins) called out the offense for focusing too much on the running game and not enough on the passing game - the Bills' passing game took a major step forward with the same damn personnel it had all year.

 

Hmm.....

 

There isn't a fan here who knows what Tyrod's ceiling is in a normal (more balanced) offense that actually emphasizes a passing attack because that offense was as unbalanced towards running as the NFL gets.

 

And when we finally did get a glimpse of a game (2nd Miami) where it was obvious they spent the whole week working on their passing attack leading up to that game, it looked pretty darn good.

Whaley has his faults but he is not a fool. Do you really believe that he would be so determined to get rid of TT if he felt that he was a legitimate franchise qb that could elevate this team into a contending team? Let's get serious. How many teams were willing to take TT this offseason even if it was only to be a bridge qb at a reasonable price? There were plenty of teams who were in a dire straight at the qb position but none of them made the purchase. Ask yourself why not?

 

The organization halved his salary and structured his contract so that he could be let go after this season without much cap ramifications. That certainly doesn't indicate that his services are valued, especially on a long term basis. Unless it was a complete smokescreen the Bills put in more effort examining the crop of qbs than they have for a long time. Are they going to take a prospect with a high pick? Probably not. That's one of the primary reasons why this franchise has not been in the playoffs for a generation.

 

You can cite all the statistics you want and interpret them the way you want. But watching the games it is starkly evident to me that the offense he runs from a passing standpoint is elementary. While you say it is due to coaching I say it is due to his glaring limitations.

[Figster]

OJ Howard sporting Goodwin's old jersey and a RED Bills helmet.

hahaha,

 

what he said ^^^

[RevWarRifleman]

A good topic, and lots of good points posted. That said, here's my 2 cents, in no particular order.

 

1. Have no more than 6-7 penalties a game, fewer is better. We're not good enough to keep shooting ourselves in the foot!

 

2. Better tackling, especially in 1 on 1 situations.

 

3.A. Tyrod to use the whole field in throwing the ball.

 

B. Tyrod to make more plays in clutch situations in the game.

 

4. Cardale to have a great Tng camp & preseason so as to really push for the #2 spot.

 

5. The whole team, offense, defense & sp to make plays in crunch time in games. A lot of those losses will turn into wins.

 

6. When the offense makes a deep play, go into hurry up when the defense is on their heals & get down field & get a play

 

(preferably a pass play) off.

 

All of this stuff is just good fundamentals, there's nothing special here.

[C.Biscuit97]

Playoffs or rock bottom 2-14 season. If we are out of it, I hope we get to see a young qb get some playing time.

[Bill_with_it]

Whaley has his faults but he is not a fool. Do you really believe that he would be so determined to get rid of TT if he felt that he was a legitimate franchise qb that could elevate this team into a contending team? Let's get serious. How many teams were willing to take TT this offseason even if it was only to be a bridge qb at a reasonable price? There were plenty of teams who were in a dire straight at the qb position but none of them made the purchase. Ask yourself why not?

 

The organization halved his salary and structured his contract so that he could be let go after this season without much cap ramifications. That certainly doesn't indicate that his services are valued, especially on a long term basis. Unless it was a complete smokescreen the Bills put in more effort examining the crop of qbs than they have for a long time. Are they going to take a prospect with a high pick? Probably not. That's one of the primary reasons why this franchise has not been in the playoffs for a generation.

 

You can cite all the statistics you want and interpret them the way you want. But watching the games it is starkly evident to me that the offense he runs from a passing standpoint is elementary. While you say it is due to coaching I say it is due to his glaring limitations.

He was under contract. No team could "purchase" him.

[JohnC]

He was under contract. No team could "purchase" him.

No team was interested in him. He could have declined the re-structure and be freed from the organization. Or another way of looking at it if he didn't accept a downsizing restructure the organization would have let him go.

[Bill_with_it]

No team was interested in him. He could have declined the re-structure and be freed from the organization. Or another way of looking at it if he didn't accept a downsizing restructure the organization would have let him go.

Thats your opinion of course, there is nothing from the organization stating that they would telease him if he didnt accept a restructure. He was under contract so he couldnt decline anything if the Bills wanted to keep under the old contract.

[Rocky Landing]

A return to the dominance of our front four.

[John from Riverside]

No team was interested in him. He could have declined the re-structure and be freed from the organization. Or another way of looking at it if he didn't accept a downsizing restructure the organization would have let him go.

Why are you stating something as fact when it is totally just your opinion?

 

There is NOTHING anywhere that backs your opinion up

[JohnC]

Thats your opinion of course, there is nothing from the organization stating that they would telease him if he didnt accept a restructure. He was under contract so he couldnt decline anything if the Bills wanted to keep under the old contract.

If you don't accept the fact that the Bills weren't going to keep him unless he agreed to the restructure that is your prerogative. It's telling to me, not necessarily to you, that he was willing to stay under a downsized contract with the Bills rather than seek better offers that didn't exist.

Why are you stating something as fact when it is totally just your opinion?

 

There is NOTHING anywhere that backs your opinion up

No team was willing to give him a comparable contract that he originally had with the Bills. If he had an option to get the amount of money he had in his original contract with another team he wouldn't have restructured his contract.

 

What team demonstrated a serious interest in him? You don't think that his agent wasn't doing his due diligence checking out the market? There were plenty of teams that had dire qb needs. None indicated to his agent that they were interested or at least at a price that was attractive to him.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

I wouldn't mind seeing Scarlett Johansson in her birthday suit this year - - or was that covered in the "minus the obvious" part of the question?

[BADOLBILZ]

The responses to this thread are pretty typical offseason myopathy.

 

Health.

 

If there is ONE thing they need, it's going to be EXCEPTIONAL health.

 

A lot of question marks, and at the very least, no depth at WR, CB and pass rusher........3 of the 5 most critical positions (QB and LT).

 

A consistently dominant running game is their best chance to overcome/offset any injuries elsewhere and if they don't match MG they are closing eyes and crossing fingers there too.

 

If they stay healthy and the existing starters play to their proven ability and Shaq, Ragnuts and Seymour match the hype they could be pretty good.

 

That's a lot of "ifs" but stranger things have happened.

[C.Biscuit97]

I wouldn't mind seeing Scarlett Johansson in her birthday suit this year - - or was that covered in the "minus the obvious" part of the question?

Overrated.