chris heff Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I'm confused by this whole thing. If Whaley was going to be fired why wait? Fire him at the same time as Rex. Whaley has to have some idea of where he stands with the Pegulas. They don't strike me as the kind of people that would keep him around to torture him. If Whaley even suspected he was going to be out he would already be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Whaley strikes me as the old fashioned company man who keeps his head down, does his job, and doesn't question upper management. The kind that worked for 40 years with the company and then got his gold watch.. His boss makes a decision to fire the HC, he doesn't question that. He accepts it and goes on with his job. That was my read on the press conference - I really don't think he knew beforehand and when it happened he just moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 He wasn't playing well? He came off a 300 yard 3 TD performance the week before he was benched. Yea he had a few off games(Cincy, Baltimore, Pittsburgh) but anyone who doesn't hate Taylor saw a defense underperform and underachiever for most of the year. Correct he wasn't playing well. They were supposed to bench him after Pitt but ole Rexy stood in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Correct he wasn't playing well. They were supposed to bench him after Pitt but ole Rexy stood in the way. Was there any other choice for Rex? While the odds were small, we still had a shot at the playoffs. He wanted his starting QB, and for obvious reasons. You saw week 17... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racketmaster Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) If Whaley gets fired, it will be because of his draft record and philosophy about how to build a rosters Whaley does not place as much emphasis on the draft as others do. He prefers to build through street free agents. That's fine. He still ahs to win with them. That will be the determining factor. Not whether or not he and McDermott love each other. I am not so sure that Whaley does not want to build thru the draft as he was groomed in Pittsburgh. However, he took over as GM of a team that had not been to the playoffs in a long time. There was an extra pressure to build a playoff team quickly. Accumulating draft picks and developing talent may actually have been what Whaley preferred to do. However, pressure from fans, media and an uncertain ownership situation may have lead him to try hitting a home run with Watkins trade. Then the new owners bring in Rex Ryan (Rex was not even on the HC candidate list submitted by Whaley) and Rex cranked up the expectations even more with all his bluster. Anyone interested in a Rex Ryan coaching regime should read "Collision Low Crossers". I read that book after Ryan was hired and was scared to death of the future. Rex is a good guy and well liked but definitely not the type to take a patient, build thru the draft approach. Rex was able to bring in a lot of his "guys" (former Jets and Ravens). Ask yourself who pushed for Harvin or IK to be brought in? I have no first hand knowledge of the Ragland draft pick, but I feel fairly confident that this was a move Ryan pushed hard for. Ragland is a Ryan type player and he was raving about him from the moment he stepped on the field in mini camp. But of course we had to give up 2 fourth round picks to move up a few spots in the second round for him. Ryan raised expectations of winning and the Bills went into win now at whatever cost mode. And we are now paying the cost with only 6 picks in this year's draft and limited cap space due to big free agent signings like Charles Clay. Obviously, Whaley deserves quite a bit of blame for our current situation but I do think a little perspective and context is called for when evaluating him as a GM. I believe that it is entirely possible had Whaley gone to another organization that had recent success he could have gone the route of building thru the draft. I mean think about it, Whaley was in a spot where his owner passed away and the team future was in flux. It is not unreasonable to think that he would take more risks in that situation rather than just play it safe and build thru the draft so some other GM and coach can reap the benefits. I would like to see what Whaley can do with what I believe is a real HC. If Whaley cannot make it work with McDermott, than I would be completely on board with getting rid of him. But I would like to give him and McDermott a year or two to see if the team is heading in the right direction. Whaley has a pretty good eye for spotting talent and maybe with McDermott's vision they can make a good team. Edited March 24, 2017 by racketmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) I am not so sure that Whaley does not want to build thru the draft as he was groomed in Pittsburgh. However, he took over as GM of a team that had not been to the playoffs in a long time. There was an extra pressure to build a playoff team quickly. Accumulating draft picks and developing talent may actually have been what Whaley preferred to do. However, pressure from fans, media and an uncertain ownership situation may have lead him to try hitting a home run with Watkins trade. Then the new owners bring in Rex Ryan (Rex was not even on the HC candidate list submitted by Whaley) and Rex cranked up the expectations even more with all his bluster. Anyone interested in a Rex Ryan coaching regime should read "Collision Low Crossers". I read that book after Ryan was hired and was scared to death of the future. Rex is a good guy and well liked but definitely not the type to take a patient, build thru the draft approach. Rex was able to bring in a lot of his "guy" (former Jets and Ravens). Ask yourself who pushed for Harvin or IK to be brought in? I have know first hand knowledge of the Ragland draft pick, but I feel fairly confident that this was a move Ryan pushed hard for. Ragland is a Ryan type player and he was raving about him from the moment he stepped on the field in mini camp. But of course we had to give up 2 fourth round picks to move up a few spots in the second round for him. Ryan raised expectations of winning and the Bills went into win now at whatever cost mode. And we are now paying the cost with only 6 picks in this year's draft and limited cap space due to big free agent signings like Charles Clay. Obviously, Whaley deserves quite a bit of blame for our current situation but I do think a little perspective and context is called for when evaluating him as a GM. I believe that it is entirely possible had Whaley gone to another organization that had recent success he could have gone the route of building thru the draft. I mean think about it, Whaley was in a spot where his owner passed away and the team future was in flux. It is not unreasonable to think that he would take more risks in that situation rather than just play it safe and build thru the draft so some other GM and coach can reap the benefits. I would like to see what Whaley can do with what I believe is a real HC. If Whaley cannot make it work with McDermott, than I would be completely on board with getting rid of him. But I would like to give him and McDermott a year or two to see if the team is heading in the right direction. Whaley has a pretty good eye for spotting talent and maybe with McDermott's vision they can make a good team. I think you outlined many of the problems Whaley faced. I am not a Whaley fan but many of the moves attributed to him seemed to come from others such as the Rex hire, Ragland pick, etc. But what has changed? The Bills fire their loud defensive head coach and replace him with a quiet defensive head coach. Another scheme change. And now this head coach appears to have the power to affect the 53 man roster like the one who came before him. I was talking to a friend that coaches in college football and I mentioned that the Bills were letting McDermott weigh in on the Tyrod situation. He said, "Then Tyrod will be back. Coaches are in a win now mentality, they don't worry about tomorrow." Unfortunately, the Bills are a below average team that looks like it will continue to spin their wheels while we try to "win now" and never build anything for tomorrow. The draft is approaching. I hope I am wrong but if we continue to fill holes at the draft get ready for 3 more years of losing. Edited March 24, 2017 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I'm confused by this whole thing. If Whaley was going to be fired why wait? Fire him at the same time as Rex. Whaley has to have some idea of where he stands with the Pegulas. They don't strike me as the kind of people that would keep him around to torture him. If Whaley even suspected he was going to be out he would already be gone. Then who picks the players and runs the final stages of college scouting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 If they wanted Whaley out why wait for after the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 If they wanted Whaley out why wait for after the draft? Because he's done the scouting all year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 While I'm at it.... I remember a thread about sports media, a few years ago...when I predicted that FS1 would destroy ESPN, specifically because: Fox management has already proven it knows how to penetrate a seemingly impenetrable market(See: Ratings of Fox News, today), because the market, in truth, is rotten. I was told that I was totally wrong, and the business was so big that all FS1 was doing was jumping into an underserved market, at best. I was told all sorts of crap as well. The numbers don't lie. In 1996 Fox got into the cable news business. The business results have been devastating for their competition. Now: I direct your, and those who told me I was totally wrong, to this: ESPN's top "talent" like them or not, have moved to FS1. And, there's this small story, about $100 million in on-air layoffs. I wonder where those clowns who argued with me, back when FS1 started are today. Surely, they aren't going to show up in this thread and admit they were wrong. In any event, as an internet expert I say: You should only worry about clickbait...if you can't comprehend "The Boy Who Called Wolf". Most of us learned that story in Pre-K. Some of us learned it later. In all cases? What happens to the boy? This clown notes that ESPN is on channel 26 in his spectrum lineup, and that FS1 is at channel 401. Channel lineup is set in part by demand/viewership. Sounds like FS1 is putting the wood to ESPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I think you outlined many of the problems Whaley faced. I am not a Whaley fan but many of the moves attributed to him seemed to come from others such as the Rex hire, Ragland pick, etc. But what has changed? The Bills fire their loud defensive head coach and replace him with a quiet defensive head coach. Another scheme change. And now this head coach appears to have the power to affect the 53 man roster like the one who came before him. I was talking to a friend that coaches in college football and I mentioned that the Bills were letting McDermott weigh in on the Tyrod situation. He said, "Then Tyrod will be back. Coaches are in a win now mentality, they don't worry about tomorrow." Unfortunately, the Bills are a below average team that looks like it will continue to spin their wheels while we try to "win now" and never build anything for tomorrow. The draft is approaching. I hope I am wrong but if we continue to fill holes at the draft get ready for 3 more years of losing. This assumes there's a magic unicorn QB in this draft that keeping Taylor prevents you from drafting. This is not a good QB draft. But I've seen this movie before. Agents and reporters fluff up the players until fans think any one of 5 players are future hall of famers. That's exactly how 2013 played out. And if we did draft a QB this year, what of last year's darling Cardale Jones, especially if we still sign a veteran backup? Are we done with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) Because he's done the scouting all year.Understand so What to believe This would be like who drafted the lousy 2013 draft class Whaley or Nix If Whaley is that bad the sooner he's gone the better no? Edited March 24, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 McDermott has been here a month, won 0 games and he is already telling the owners who to hire above him? He's been here the better part of three months and I doubt he's doing anything that wasn't expressly negotiated with ownership before he signed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 This assumes there's a magic unicorn QB in this draft that keeping Taylor prevents you from drafting. This is not a good QB draft. But I've seen this movie before. Agents and reporters fluff up the players until fans think any one of 5 players are future hall of famers. That's exactly how 2013 played out. And if we did draft a QB this year, what of last year's darling Cardale Jones, especially if we still sign a veteran backup? Are we done with him? Dude, I get it. You are scared your hero Tyrod would lose to one of these "not good" QB's. It's pretty transparent and sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Then who picks the players and runs the final stages of college scouting? I'm still confused, if the new HC and ownership has decided to move on from Whaley wouldn't that by definition mean they have lost confidence in his judgment? Why then would they want him involved in decisions on who to draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I'm confused by this whole thing. If Whaley was going to be fired why wait? Fire him at the same time as Rex. Whaley has to have some idea of where he stands with the Pegulas. They don't strike me as the kind of people that would keep him around to torture him. If Whaley even suspected he was going to be out he would already be gone. Extremely rare to fire your GM at that time of year, when he is neck deep in the college scouting process. It's just not a practical move that benefits your franchise in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Why not just do it all at once. This is either a lie or the Bills still suck at almost everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I'm still confused, if the new HC and ownership has decided to move on from Whaley wouldn't that by definition mean they have lost confidence in his judgment? Why then would they want him involved in decisions on who to draft? It's not just Whaley. Monos and a group of scouts are compiling the reports and draft board. What would happen is McDermott would get to pull off more "Ragland" deals where he grabs players to fit his scheme and disregards other things actual NFL GM's worry about. If this happens think Levy-Jauron for what our next few drafts will look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I'm still confused, if the new HC and ownership has decided to move on from Whaley wouldn't that by definition mean they have lost confidence in his judgment? Why then would they want him involved in decisions on who to draft? You have no alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 It's not just Whaley. Monos and a group of scouts are compiling the reports and draft board. What would happen is McDermott would get to pull off more "Ragland" deals where he grabs players to fit his scheme and disregards other things actual NFL GM's worry about. If this happens think Levy-Jauron for what our next few drafts will look like. If that's what would happen then there isn't a disagreement between McD and Whaley... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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