GunnerBill Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 But wait, there's even more: There is every chance that the guy they gave away two fourth round picks for probably would have been available anyway at the Bills' original 2d round slot. Hmm. Less sure about that if I am honest. It still doesn't justify the trade up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 But wait, there's more! That linebacker they spent 3 picks on was suited for Rex's inside 3-4 scheme. Now he will be asked to play mike in a scheme where linebackers are expected to have good range. So even those picks on LB's could have to be done over. I'm afraid that Ragland isn't going to be a good fit for McDermott's defense. If he isn't, that is going to have been a massive waste. I hope like hell he is fast and athletic enough to play it well and still be a thumper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I'm afraid that Ragland isn't going to be a good fit for McDermott's defense. If he isn't, that is going to have been a massive waste. I hope like hell he is fast and athletic enough to play it well and still be a thumper. Alabama used Ragland as a pass rushing DE on 3rd downs often. Carolina's DEs aren't much bigger than him, especially if he worked to fit into the position. I'm not ready to say there's no role for him in McD's D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Alabama used Ragland as a pass rushing DE on 3rd downs often. Carolina's DEs aren't much bigger than him, especially if he worked to fit into the position. I'm not ready to say there's no role for him in McD's D. I agree, I won't discount it until we give it a chance. Let's wait and see, people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Some clarity is in order. This years QB draft class looks like it's one of the worst, and next year's seems like it might be one of the best. So... 1. Move on from Taylor (he's the top end of the mediocre level we've come to expect at the position) 2. Sign a cheap veteran QB like Hoyer 3. Start Hoyer (or whoever) and when Jones gets even close to ready you play him till the end of the season. 4. If Jones doesn't cut it (looking at 4-12 record), you select your franchise QB for the next 10-15 years. Bills fans should be able to wait one more year. Watch Cardale Jones when he gets his chance and also watch college football for the future QB of the Bills that they'll be picking in the 2018 draft. If the owner was drafting, or fans like you and me, this is exactly the strategy. You get a stud wr, RT, d backs and a kicker this year and just suck it up for a 4-12 season. Then you get your franchise QB next year. The problem is every GM is so paranoid about their job they're in win-now mode and therefore long term strategic thinking doesn't seem to happen. That's how you get a 17 year drought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 If the owner was drafting, or fans like you and me, this is exactly the strategy. You get a stud wr, RT, d backs and a kicker this year and just suck it up for a 4-12 season. Then you get your franchise QB next year. Only if they share the evaluation of this QB class as a particularly bad one. It has no obvious elite prospect in it.... but then guess what... not many do and occasionally they still throw out an elite Quarterback. I actually think the way the Bills have got a 17 year drought is following your approach. That was what Buddy Nix wanted to do. Put all the other pieces in place then find his Quarterback like a cherry on top of a cake. Personally I think the Bills need to be more aggressive about drafting a Quarterback. The"wait for next year" approach has not worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ennjay Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 OK, all the way back to my original question. (And BTW, thanks for all the serious and thoughtful answers.) Today it looks like they're keeping Tyrod. If so, his guarantied money (forget about any restructuring -- the man will get paid his coin one way or another; it's only a question of how/when, bonus on a date certain or salary over time) means he's here at least two more years, possibly longer, and he's next year's starter. That means to me it would be dumb to waste a high (first 3 rounds) draft pick on a QB this year. The Bills need instant impact/help from a lot of positions. WR? S? CB? OL? A rookie QB won't play anytime soon and while he's tying up a roster spot and his share of cap space he can't contribute anything until at least 2019. That's what Cardale was drafted for: the long-term future. So I think keeping Tyrod clinches Cardale's future for at least three years, whether he's #3 or #2 in 2017. And I'm wondering again how they develop him, since committing to Tyrod commits to Cardale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanInJax Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Clipboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Only if they share the evaluation of this QB class as a particularly bad one. It has no obvious elite prospect in it.... but then guess what... not many do and occasionally they still throw out an elite Quarterback. I actually think the way the Bills have got a 17 year drought is following your approach. That was what Buddy Nix wanted to do. Put all the other pieces in place then find his Quarterback like a cherry on top of a cake. Personally I think the Bills need to be more aggressive about drafting a Quarterback. The"wait for next year" approach has not worked. Let's put things in perspective. The Bills have not had a legitimate franchise qb for 20 years. How does that happen? The Bills have been out of the playoffs for 18 consecutive years (counting this year) in a system designed for parity. How does that happen? Whether a team is starting a rebuild, or in the middle of a rebuild or finished with a rebuild the attitude for a team without a franchise qb is to be aggressive in securing that position. A team can draft a CB who has HOF potential. Do you know how a team counter's that caliber of talent? Simply throw to the other side or send the receiver who is being covered by the ace CB out deep and then throw short in the vacated area. The point is that it is easy to counter a high end talent in the defensive backfield. What's exasperating with spending a high draft pick on a DB, CB or Safety, is that when their contracts are up the team is usually not willing to pay the market price to retain that player. Gilmore will probably fall in that category as did Clements. So the end result is that the team will bypass a quality qb prospect at the expense of signing a good defensive back who will be too costly to keep. It's a cycle of futility that gets repeated. How about trying another approach and make it a priority to draft a high end qb prospect. Too often the tired argument is made that there is no elite qb in this draft. That's not a good argument for the simple reason that if an elite prospect is in a draft he will be taken with the first pick or near the top of the draft. A position where we will not be near because this team is built to be a 7-9 or 9-7 team. Moving up would take an exorbitant price. And even if happened there would be no guarantees that the enticing qb will turn out to be as good as one expected. Derek Carr was not an elite prospect. Neither was Dalton, Bridgewater, Wilson etc. All of these qbs would have made a difference for this team. Without a doubt the embarrassing streak of consecutive non-playoff appearance would have been over. So what does this organization continue to do. That which it always does. The Jauron/Levy gut wrenching conservatism manifested again. If the Bills do what they usually do in bypassing good qb prospects because their ranking on the board isn't as high as a positional player this stolid franchise will continue to be an observer instead of a participant when the playoffs come around. It gets tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 @salsports Cardale is an option for us. -- McDermott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 @salsports Cardale is an option for us. -- McDermott Having Jones being ready to become a starter is the very best outcome right now. Burning a 1st or 2nd round pick on another project QB is a highly rated, non-QB, rookie contract asset not being used. The draft will eventually tell everyone how they feel about Jones' shorter term chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 No he's not. If Cardale starts more than 10 consecutive games, we are going to the postseason... BOOK IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I'm an option. Not a good one, but an option still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 If Cardale starts more than 10 consecutive games, we are going to the postseason... BOOK IT! Which year? Because it won't be in 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpoolkev Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Cardale will be fighting for a roster spot this season but it will almost certainly be a PS spot. Assuming we keep Taylor: 1. Bills will almost certainly add a vet QB to the roster to compete for the backup job as I can't imagine they will feel comfortable with a raw kid like Cardale going into camp as the primary competitor for the backup gig. 2. In addition to that Vet, the Bills will likely add 2 more QBs to the roster before camp, and I assume one in the draft and probably an UDFA rookie. Taylor will be the starter with the Vet and Cardale competing for the backup, and if Cardale doesn't win (and he likely wont) he will then be fighting for the PS spot as we aren't dressing 3 QB's on Sunday and he is going to have to compete for that spot with the likely rookie or rookies we add to camp too. Personally I think he has almost no chance to make the active roster and is 50/50 to even make the PS and odds could worsen if we grab a quality rookie prospect that is more polished this year. Wouldn't surprise me to see him and someone like Chad Kelly battling it out for the PS roster spot as I think we could grab Kelly in the 5th this year. With no 4th round pick, and several holes in the secondary, a big need at WR and RT, I just don't think the Bills will use either of the first 3 picks on a QB and then look to add a prospect in the 5th. Kelly makes a lot of sense there and I think Cardale's ability to make the PS will come down to a battle between those 2. Cardale has a lot of tools to like, but if he doesnt show enough improvement it wouldn't shock me to see him cut. If we keep Tyrod we will not draft a QB. We will not add another QB via free agency. Cordale will become the back up and continue with his development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I agreed with taking ej in the first too, didn't want to take a chance someone scooped him up late first/early second. It was apparent during the draft they could have trded down two more times and still got EJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I have my own thoughts on all of this but am really waiting to see what McDermott does Meatball is coming back which to me tells me they are not rebiulding this team and probably installing a defense that fits these players If our D had not dropped so far in production I really believe we would have made the playoffs this past season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 It was apparent during the draft they could have trded down two more times and still got EJ Hey guys... Hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Vic C today on Cardale Jones: "At least one member of the previous coaching staff had big problems with his lack of maturity and commitment to the considerable amount of work required to be a successful quarterback. Something tells me McDermott won't have a whole lot of patience if Jones is making as many in-training-camp/in-season trips back to his native Ohio as he did in 2016 for various personal issues." http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/17/vic-caruccis-bills-mailbag-wont-shocked-trade/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Vic C today on Cardale Jones: "At least one member of the previous coaching staff had big problems with his lack of maturity and commitment to the considerable amount of work required to be a successful quarterback. Something tells me McDermott won't have a whole lot of patience if Jones is making as many in-training-camp/in-season trips back to his native Ohio as he did in 2016 for various personal issues." http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/17/vic-caruccis-bills-mailbag-wont-shocked-trade/ Not good news there...he should not be handed the back-up job.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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