If no Tyrod Taylor, where do we go?

[KRT88]

Ok let's be real, Tyrod Taylor has produced 7,100 yards worth of offense 46 TD's and 15 turnovers in his 29 games. Yes he has passing diffencies but what better options are available? How does the QB position get better?

 

Cardale Jones will be the response of many but what do we know? You want to stake the future of the franchise on a guy who hasn't played one snap in real game action.

 

Draft a guy. Who? There's no one in this draft that's a franchise guy. Watson is a TT clone.

 

Trade? For whom? Think Tom Savage will be made avaulable? Jimmy Grapallo. Maybe but you better be right as that's a 1st and 4th for sure.

 

Sign someone. Again who? No quality QB become UFA? Kurt Cousins isn't gonna hit he market.

 

In the end, the team is gonna bite the bullet and pick up the contract of Tyrod Taylor.

[MAJBobby]

The Draft. Thats were franchise QBs are found

[MAJBobby]

Why not both?

 

Keep Tyrod and do what it takes to get a QB high in the draft. It's the smart move which means the Bills probably won't make it.

You can but point remains Franchise QBs are found in the draft.

 

Of course unless its a Manning Brees inj situation.

[Bronc24]

Probably to 2 - 14. Or we could appease the Pickspatrick apologists and live through that hell again.

[jr1]

this thread needs a Bo Levi Mitchell reference

[KDIGGZ]

Tank it

[Bronc24]

this thread needs a Bo Levi Mitchell reference

No. It doesn't.

[bobobonators]

Down the toilet, thats where we go. People are advocating for the Glennon's of the world.

[Dorkington]

As much as it's nice to draft a stud QB, that only happens with a good QB development staff. Do we have that? Will we have that? I don't have faith in our ability to develop a QB, so I'd rather keep our offense in tact for now, and focus on improving the defense.

[long suffering bills fan]

Ok let's be real, Tyrod Taylor has produced 7,100 yards worth of offense 46 TD's and 15 turnovers in his 29 games. Yes he has passing diffencies but what better options are available? How does the QB position get better?

Cardale Jones will be the response of many but what do we know? You want to stake the future of the franchise on a guy who hasn't played one snap in real game action.

Draft a guy. Who? There's no one in this draft that's a franchise guy. Watson is a TT clone.

Trade? For whom? Think Tom Savage will be made avaulable? Jimmy Grapallo. Maybe but you better be right as that's a 1st and 4th for sure.

Sign someone. Again who? No quality QB become UFA? Kurt Cousins isn't gonna hit he market.

In the end, the team is gonna bite the bullet and pick up the contract of Tyrod Taylor.

What you have stated so clearly makes so much sense. I do not want to believe the Bills management is so inept that they would let TT go after this season with no viable successor in place to quarterback the team in 2017. The sad truth is, the are.

[PolishDave]

Ok let's be real, Tyrod Taylor has produced 7,100 yards worth of offense 46 TD's and 15 turnovers in his 29 games. Yes he has passing diffencies but what better options are available? How does the QB position get better?

 

Cardale Jones will be the response of many but what do we know? You want to stake the future of the franchise on a guy who hasn't played one snap in real game action.

 

Draft a guy. Who? There's no one in this draft that's a franchise guy. Watson is a TT clone.

 

Trade? For whom? Think Tom Savage will be made avaulable? Jimmy Grapallo. Maybe but you better be right as that's a 1st and 4th for sure.

 

Sign someone. Again who? No quality QB become UFA? Kurt Cousins isn't gonna hit he market.

 

In the end, the team is gonna bite the bullet and pick up the contract of Tyrod Taylor.

 

I think they will pick up the option too, but it depends on who they get for a coach and what his philosophy is. Maybe Tyrod won't fit his scheme in which case he will be let go or traded.

 

If that coach wants to draft a guy and start him, then Bills fans better be prepared for at least a couple more years of suckitude. And at least a one year regression from where we are now.

 

If you want to go to the playoffs next year, I doubt they will find a better shot at that with another QB other than Tyrod.

 

Personally, I want to take a shot at the playoffs next year. I don't want to wait. I want playoffs every year.

[BarleyNY]

Tank it

Not a bad way to go next season. For this season we're looking at a bridge QB and a day one or two draft pick.

[jeffismagic]

This is a weak draft for QB's. Only pull the trigger if you really like someone.

[Nyghtewynd]

To win a SB, you need an above-average coach and an above-average QB. TT is probably an average-at-best QB. Therefore, you need a QB. EJ is nowhere near average. This isn't a playoff team next year. Cut EJ, keep TT around as a one-year bridge, and either draft a QB that you're going to give significant tryout minutes to or trade for a backup and find out if he's the next big thing. If nothing is going anywhere after six games, tank like a mother and get a high pick for next year's crop.

[Kirby Jackson]

If they go away from TT, I'd be tempted to trade this year's 1 for a 2 and a 1 in 2018. Sign someone like Hoyer and let him start until Cardale is ready. When you are comfortable with Cardale run him out there.

 

I'd deal Shady, Kyle and anyone else that won't fit the timeline if you are trying to tank. I think that's the next best option. If you aren't signing TT don't go half pregnant. Hit the reset button and be ready for 2018 with cap space, 2 1sts including at least one high pick. If you get lucky and Cardale is the guy, all the better.

[bobobonators]

To win a SB, you need an above-average coach and an above-average QB. TT is probably an average-at-best QB. Therefore, you need a QB. EJ is nowhere near average. This isn't a playoff team next year. Cut EJ, keep TT around as a one-year bridge, and either draft a QB that you're going to give significant tryout minutes to or trade for a backup and find out if he's the next big thing. If nothing is going anywhere after six games, tank like a mother and get a high pick for next year's crop.

How about we focus on making the playoffs. People talking about super bowls here. Lets try and run a functional, winning organization first.

[Bronc24]

If they go away from TT, I'd be tempted to trade this year's 1 for a 2 and a 1 in 2018. Sign someone like Hoyer and let him start until Cardale is ready. When you are comfortable with Cardale run him out there.

 

I'd deal Shady, Kyle and anyone else that won't fit the timeline if you are trying to tank. I think that's the next best option. If you aren't signing TT don't go half pregnant. Hit the reset button and be ready for 2018 with cap space, 2 1sts including at least one high pick. If you get lucky and Cardale is the guy, all the better.

You completely lost me at Hoyer. The Bills are not a 4 - 12 team, so why blow everything on the roster up? If they actually played defense Saturday, they would be playing with an outside opportunity to make the playoffs.

 

17 years of no playoffs brings out some crazy ideas.

[yungmack]

Why not both?

 

Keep Tyrod and do what it takes to get a QB high in the draft. It's the smart move which means the Bills probably won't make it.

The question remains, Who in the draft is an improvement?

[C.Biscuit97]

Probably to 2 - 14. Or we could appease the Pickspatrick apologists and live through that hell again.

You are greatly overestimating how much Taylor means to W-Ls. Fitz, Losman, Edwards managed to win 6/7 games every year. Taylor has won 7 & 8.

 

So without Taylor, we suddenly go 2-14? That makes no sense.

The question remains, Who in the draft is an improvement?

Not one person going into the draft thought Dak would be this good. It's hilarious how people act like they can tell what college qbs will be once they enter the NFL.

 

For all this doom and gloom, a starting Bills' QB next year will get Sammy Watkins, Charles Clay, a top 5 offensive line, & top 2 running attack. That would set a lot of qbs up for success.

[Bronc24]

You are greatly overestimating how much Taylor means to W-Ls. Fitz, Losman, Edwards managed to win 6/7 games every year. Taylor has won 7 & 8.

 

So without Taylor, we suddenly go 2-14? That makes no sense.

 

Not one person going into the draft thought Dak would be this good. It's hilarious how people act like they can tell what college qbs will be once they enter the NFL.

 

For all this doom and gloom, a starting Bills' QB next year will get Sammy Watkins, Charles Clay, a top 5 offensive line, & top 2 running attack. That would set a lot of qbs up for success.

Your literal interpretation of my sarcastically stated W / L record is admirable. The point, obviously lost on you, is that we will not be a better team next season without Tyrod Taylor.

 

Sure, we could conceivably find the next Dak Prescott in the draft. However, that is assuming that we pick someone who potentially could do that well and that they actually do perform that well.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Bronc24

[KRT88]

What Bills QB has Taylor production?

 

7100 total yards

46 TD's

15 turnovers

 

He needs to improve in the passing game but I just don't see how we can improve next year. Give Cardale Jones another year to develop.

 

With the top rushing attack, a better WR corp and a better defense, TT can get us to the post season.

 

Brian Hoyer - oh brother

Why do we want to go 3-13?

[bobobonators]

You are greatly overestimating how much Taylor means to W-Ls. Fitz, Losman, Edwards managed to win 6/7 games every year. Taylor has won 7 & 8.

 

So without Taylor, we suddenly go 2-14? That makes no sense.

LOL..2-14 is nothing more than hyperbole. With TT starting all games with this crap defense we went (assuming he started and beat the Jets this sunday) 8-8.

 

TT accounted for 23 TD's (which is in the top half for scoring in the NFL for QB's) and very few turnovers. Lets replace TT with QB XYZ. Lets give QB XYZ the benefit of the doubt and say he also finished in the top half for scoring and accounted for 25/26 TD's but also had 2x as many INT (which is the likely outcome unless you plan on using an elite QB as an example). With this defense this year, how many more losses would we have if we had another 14 INT from the QB position? How many more TD's would opposing teams have scored on us if we doubled the turnover rate from the QB position? It's hard to say b/c it's impossible to know. What we do know is that this defense sucks, so I'd expect the outcome to not be good. Maybe 5-11? 6-10? Hard to say I guess. Certainly not 2-14 though.

[Kirby Jackson]

You completely lost me at Hoyer. The Bills are not a 4 - 12 team, so why blow everything on the roster up? If they actually played defense Saturday, they would be playing with an outside opportunity to make the playoffs.

 

17 years of no playoffs brings out some crazy ideas.

Because TT gives them the best chance to win in 2017. That's kind of the point. You either keep him and build on where you are or you start over. This isn't a good QB draft and the market is extremely limited. It's not a crazy idea at all. You either keep the best option to win in 2017 or start over. To start over, resetting is a much better option trying to win 7 games next year and be in the same place in 2018.

[Bronc24]

Because TT gives them the best chance to win in 2017. That's kind of the point. You either keep him and build on where you are or you start over. This isn't a good QB draft and the market is extremely limited. It's not a crazy idea at all. You either keep the best option to win in 2017 or start over. To start over, resetting is a much better option trying to win 7 games next year and be in the same place in 2018.

I agree with this. I missed this thought process in your OP.

[C.Biscuit97]

LOL..2-14 is nothing more than hyperbole. With TT starting all games with this crap defense we went (assuming he started and beat the Jets this sunday) 8-8.

 

TT accounted for 23 TD's (which is in the top half for scoring in the NFL for QB's) and very few turnovers. Lets replace TT with QB XYZ. Lets give QB XYZ the benefit of the doubt and say he also finished in the top half for scoring and accounted for 25/26 TD's but also had 2x as many INT (which is the likely outcome unless you plan on using an elite QB as an example). With this defense this year, how many more losses would we have if we had another 14 INT from the QB position? How many more TD's would opposing teams have scored on us if we doubled the turnover rate from the QB position? It's hard to say b/c it's impossible to know. What we do know is that this defense sucks, so I'd expect the outcome to not be good. Maybe 5-11? 6-10? Hard to say I guess. Certainly not 2-14 though.

Very few qbs would have been worse against Baltimore. Tyrod can do amazing things at things but he goes into stretches where he is really bad. He bails on pass plays too early and doesn't give his playmakers a chance to make enough plays. If our run game gets shut down, he has shown he is not capable of winning games with his arm.

 

I agree we are in a tough spot with Taylor. Basically, I think he is an 8-8 type qb. That doesn't $27 million imo. I believe we have an excellent offensive setup that a lot of qbs would thrive in. But nothing about this past year made me think he deserves to be the highest paid player on our team and believe it would be a mistake.

[Wagon Circler]

I don't think anyone wants to just dump Tyrod with nobody there to replace him. But that is contingent on him renegotiating down to a more team friendly contract. I consider him a bridge until we find the next Kelly (please god ). I am not paying him 30 million next year to hold the ball and lead the league in sacks.

[Rubes]

Maybe EJ will have a stellar game against the woeful Jets, and Whaley will announce that he's going to be the starter going into next year.

 

Then, watch Bills Nation collectively implode.

[Maury Ballstein]

Anyone. There's nowhere to go but up from 31st in passing.

[bobobonators]

Very few qbs would have been worse against Baltimore. Tyrod can do amazing things at things but he goes into stretches where he is really bad. He bails on pass plays too early and doesn't give his playmakers a chance to make enough plays. If our run game gets shut down, he has shown he is not capable of winning games with his arm.

 

I agree we are in a tough spot with Taylor. Basically, I think he is an 8-8 type qb. That doesn't $27 million imo. I believe we have an excellent offensive setup that a lot of qbs would thrive in. But nothing about this past year made me think he deserves to be the highest paid player on our team and believe it would be a mistake.

 

You may be right, but I don't think so. A run-first team can be hard on some QB's. Some QB's need a lot of pass attempts to get into a rhythm. It's hard, for many QB's, to consistently pass the ball accurately and effectively if they're only throwing it 20x a game. It's like, alright, I know you've only thrown the ball 1-2x in the last 10 plays, but we need a big 3rd and 8 conversion now. It's not that easy IMO. Big time passing QB's need to pass the ball, they want to pass the ball. So in this offense, we would go away from what makes it great: running the ball, and running it a lot. The dynamics of the passing game would change, and that may be fine, or it may not.

 

To me it comes down to this: This offense works. It scores points, and it scores a lot. TD's/play; Red Zone offense; total points; Touchdowns scored (not fg's); 3rd down % it's 14th, not great but not horrible. TT has been a part of that. It can't be denied or taken away from him. Pick up the option, pick up a better RT, and add WR depth.

[Mark80]

Sign EJ cheap. Draft Kelly round 3/4. Re-sign Gillmore with cash saved on QB. Sign best Safety you can (Berry hopefully). Draft best OLine and WR you can in rounds 1/2. QB competition in pre-season between EJ, Cardale, and Kelly if he has recovered fully by then. If we don't hit on anyone, draft a QB again in 2018, then in 19, and 20 until you are satisfied you have found your man.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

You may be right, but I don't think so. A run-first team can be hard on some QB's. Some QB's need a lot of pass attempts to get into a rhythm. It's hard, for many QB's, to consistently pass the ball accurately and effectively if they're only throwing it 20x a game. It's like, alright, I know you've only thrown the ball 1-2x in the last 10 plays, but we need a big 3rd and 8 conversion now. It's not that easy IMO. Big time passing QB's need to pass the ball, they want to pass the ball. So in this offense, we would go away from what makes it great: running the ball, and running it a lot. The dynamics of the passing game would change, and that may be fine, or it may not.

 

To me it comes down to this: This offense works. It scores points, and it scores a lot. TD's/play; Red Zone offense; total points; Touchdowns scored (not fg's); 3rd down % it's 14th, not great but not horrible. TT has been a part of that. It can't be denied or taken away from him. Pick up the option, pick up a better RT, and add WR depth.

Valid points but put it this way, if our running game breaks down, do you believe Tyrod can win us a game? How many games has Tyrod been the main reason we won? I'll give him Miami and the Seattle ones. But I can't remember too many others.

 

Again, I like some things Tyrod does. But 200 yards passing is not asking for much from a qb in today's NFL. I just don't believe he is worth that extension.

[bobobonators]

Valid points but put it this way, if our running game breaks down, do you believe Tyrod can win us a game? How many games has Tyrod been the main reason we won? I'll give him Miami and the Seattle ones. But I can't remember too many others.

 

Again, I like some things Tyrod does. But 200 yards passing is not asking for much from a qb in today's NFL. I just don't believe he is worth that extension.

 

If our running game breaks down, our chances of winning are extremely reduced, much the same way that if the Falcons or Saints passing game breaks down (which it does at times), they're chances of winning are extremely reduced.

 

In the NFL, you find something that works and you run with it (pardon the pun). How many games have we scored in the teens this season? Two maybe 3? How many times has our running game been shut down? Point is, this offense rarely gets completely shut down. Every team in the NFL has games where they have clunkers on offense. Look at what the high flying Falcons did in Philly. Or what they did in Seattle. The Ravens have a top 5 defense. We sucked. It was week 1 on the road and we came out flat. It happens. But other than 2-3 games this season this offense hasn't been completely shut down all game.

 

Fact remains, a better defense and we're in the playoffs. Just like if the Saints had a better defense, they'd be in the playoffs.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

If our running game breaks down, our chances of winning are extremely reduced, much the same way that if the Falcons or Saints passing game breaks down (which it does at times), they're chances of winning are extremely reduced.

 

In the NFL, you find something that works and you run with it (pardon the pun). How many games have we scored in the teens this season? Two maybe 3? How many times has our running game been shut down? Point is, this offense rarely gets completely shut down. Every team in the NFL has games where they have clunkers on offense. Look at what the high flying Falcons did in Philly. Or what they did in Seattle. The Ravens have a top 5 defense. We sucked. It was week 1 on the road and we came out flat. It happens. But other than 2-3 games this season this offense hasn't been completely shut down all game.

 

Fact remains, a better defense and we're in the playoffs. Just like if the Saints had a better defense, they'd be in the playoffs.

Defense deserved the Baltimore win. Taylor was about as bad as I've seen a qb be. The 3 and outs in Miami's heat destroyed the defense. Defense won the Cincy game.

 

Let's not pretend like we had some powerhouse offense. They were capable of big plays but was an inconsistent unit. This season's failure wasn't all on the defense.

 

And this is what I hear with Taylor. If you get him another stud receiver, another RT, & top 10 defense, he would get us in the playoffs. I think there are about 30 guys who can do this.

[dave mcbride]

Defense deserved the Baltimore win. Taylor was about as bad as I've seen a qb be. The 3 and outs in Miami's heat destroyed the defense. Defense won the Cincy game.

 

Let's not pretend like we had some powerhouse offense. They were capable of big plays but was an inconsistent unit. This season's failure wasn't all on the defense.

 

And this is what I hear with Taylor. If you get him another stud receiver, another RT, & top 10 defense, he would get us in the playoffs. I think there are about 30 guys who can do this.

Baltimore has a damn good defense - #3 in DVOA - and they're especially tough at home. Don't factor that out.

[bobobonators]

Defense deserved the Baltimore win. Taylor was about as bad as I've seen a qb be. The 3 and outs in Miami's heat destroyed the defense. Defense won the Cincy game.

 

Let's not pretend like we had some powerhouse offense. They were capable of big plays but was an inconsistent unit. This season's failure wasn't all on the defense.

 

And this is what I hear with Taylor. If you get him another stud receiver, another RT, & top 10 defense, he would get us in the playoffs. I think there are about 30 guys who can do this.

I 100% get what youre saying and we may be arguing different things.

 

What Im saying is that this offense doesnt need to improve at QB. This offense doesnt revolve around the QB and bc it doesnt recolve around the QB we dont need an elite "franchise" QB. We need TT. We need someone who can throw the deep ball to sammy 2-3x a game and scramble for a 1st down 3-5x a game. We need a QB who is perfectly content throwing it 20x a game in the majority if his starts. In sum, this offense is the running game. And Im fine with that. I dont think it needs to be changed for this team to win. I feel that their scoring rate proves that. The defense needs to change and thats it. Id be 100% fine going to battle with the exact same players on offense next season. Im not asking for Julio Jones a pro bowl RT and travis kelce. Im just objectively saying that the offense as a whole could benefit from an upgrade at RT and better WR depth. Other than that im personally ready to roll with this offense for the next 2-3yrs. Others are not and thats cool. Theyre wrong but thats cool. Lol

[C.Biscuit97]

Baltimore has a damn good defense - #3 in DVOA - and they're especially tough at home. Don't factor that out.

Agreed but they give up 233 yards per game. Tyrod had 111 with everyone healthy.

 

My point is to not pretend like every loss was on the defense.

[dave mcbride]

Agreed but they give up 233 yards per game. Tyrod had 111 with everyone healthy.

 

My point is to not pretend like every loss was on the defense.

Most were though. I agree that it wasn't every one.

[C.Biscuit97]

I 100% get what youre saying and we may be arguing different things.

 

What Im saying is that this offense doesnt need to improve at QB. This offense doesnt revolve around the QB and bc it doesnt recolve around the QB we dont need an elite "franchise" QB. We need TT. We need someone who can throw the deep ball to sammy 2-3x a game and scramble for a 1st down 3-5x a game. We need a QB who is perfectly content throwing it 20x a game in the majority if his starts. In sum, this offense is the running game. And Im fine with that. I dont think it needs to be changed for this team to win. I feel that their scoring rate proves that. The defense needs to change and thats it. Id be 100% fine going to battle with the exact same players on offense next season. Im not asking for Julio Jones a pro bowl RT and travis kelce. Im just objectively saying that the offense as a whole could benefit from an upgrade at RT and better WR depth. Other than that im personally ready to roll with this offense for the next 2-3yrs. Others are not and thats cool. Theyre wrong but thats cool. Lol

Haha, we probably are. When I look for a qb, I want a guy who can win you game and make players around him better. I rarely have seen Taylor do that. If anything, people put down the players around him to boost him up.

 

I think the comparison with Taylor are Wilson and Alex Smith. But I've seen those guys win games with their arms (and they were much better passers in college). I rarely see that from Tyrod. I feel like with him at qb our margin for error is so small.

 

But I do realize you could do much worse. I said before the season, he could be a better qb this year with worse stats. I just didn't see it enough this year from him.

[Kelly the Dog]

Agreed but they give up 233 yards per game. Tyrod had 111 with everyone healthy.

My point is to not pretend like every loss was on the defense.

Watkins was not healthy at all. He said he was 100% because he always says that. But it's clear he wasn't and he didn't really get any worse before they shut him down for 10 games. He hasn't been 100% for over two seasons. Even in the last few games last year he wasn't.

[C.Biscuit97]

Most were though. I agree that it wasn't every one.

The flip side was defense was the reason for the Cincy and Jags wins. And I'd argue that both offense and defense was the reasons for the 1st Miami loss and Oakland.

 

But it does show how stupid w-l records are for qbs.