The waiver claim of Vitale got me thinking...

[OCinBuffalo]

...yes, it's always a danger to many when I start thinking, I know.

 

However, I've done some research on Vitale, which only adds to my prior thinking, after seeing us run the wishbone last game. I noticed his position was "super-back" at Northwestern, because he would line up in so many different positions. The Bucs drafted him, and some of their fans hyped it, because of this versatility, and because he was thought of as a possible successor to Mike Alstott.

 

However, during their camp, 2 things became clear: 1. They already had 5 TEs on their roster(so...why the F did you draft him with your 6, and ask him to not be versatile, but play straight TE instead?) 2. He didn't block better than the other 5 TEs, which is ostensibly why they released him. The entire thing seems like an exercise in stupid choices.

 

Now, we pick him up. Hey, he was a NFL Combine champion, so why not, right? No. There are some key differences to our offense compared to theirs both from a scheme and personnel viewpoint:

Personnel: we have Shady, Reggie(Gil is a backup to these 2), Williams, and Gronkowski made the team. They have 3 RBs total(including Doug Martin who requires being featured), no Fullback, and all of their TEs are "standard" TE body-types.

 

Scheme: First, understand that I'm talking "normal offense" here. Anybody can line up anybody for things like goal line, 4th down and inches, etc. Tampa runs some 2 TEs plays(or else why did you keep 5?), but, they are never going to do anything more than have a single back, or no back, with only 3 RBs on the team.

 

Our scheme...is where things get interesting. We already expect to see RB/FB/TE/WR/WR on the field for say 30% of the plays, at least. That is a Roman base package. We should see RB/RB/TE/WR/WR, or, RB/RB/FB/TE/WR given Reggie Bush.

 

So, why Vitale? To compete with Gronk? Nah. He's more of a pass catcher than a runner, but, unlike a normal TE, he can run the football. How about to compete with our other TEs? Maybe. But, we already have Clay, and O'Leary is already the pass-catching TE type, who made the team because his blocking improved(thus, why would we claim a guy who's blocking hasn't?)

 

What the hell is it then? My hypothesis: we are getting set up to run the single-wing. Just replace the left side "end" with Cordy Glenn reporting as eligible. Perhaps not the actual single-wing, but something fairly close. Vitale is the wingback in that formation. Evidence: we kept 4 OTs, Henderson is good enough to start, and KJO could do the extra OT job too. There's your unbalanced guy(the single wing uses 3 OTs). Adding an extra OT is damaging to teams that are set up to defend the pass. Then, consider the buck-lateral series. Which, from, the link:

 

 

 

Running the buck-lateral required an offensive scheme that needed the fullback to possess many specialized skills, as opposed to today's fullback who mainly blocks and carries the ball infrequently.

 

 

Vitale's "super-back" position is defined by the bolded above.

 

What's to stop us from going RB/FB/FB(or wing back)/TE or WR, with an extra OT, as called for by the single wing? Can you imagine the play action on that thing. Actually, it would be play actions, because we could be faking to 3 different guys coming out of the backfield(RB/FB/WB), at least one of whom will release into a short out pattern as a safety valve.

 

Also, consider the damage that a direct snap to Gronk/Vitale causes. He can "buck", which means run over the center, guards or extra tackle, or behind one of them as they pull. (EDIT: and don't forget, the extra lineman means double teams on all DTs, or firing right off the ball at the LBs) But, he can also hand the ball off to the QB, or pitch it back. He can hand it off to the WB, as the WB cuts back across the field, where he can either run it, or, pitch it back to the QB or RB. Meanwhile, if the TE/WR or TE/TE or WR/WR have run patterns, it sets up a 2nd line of blockers behind the line, for the QB to wait until they get open. In all cases, it creates overloads, on either end, of more blockers, and bigger guys, that the CBs and Ss should lose to.

 

Rather than ask Vitale to block LBs and DEs, this scheme asks him to block CBs and Ss, or release into a pattern, both of which play to his his strengths.

 

I dunno about all this, but there has to be a reason we would pick this guy up, and right now, running the single wing, against defenses that are designed to blitz and cover, with smaller, faster guys? When you have bigger guys that are going to move the point of attack away from where the D wants it to be? And, you have a running QB, who is also athletic enough to run, then set his feet, then throw 60 yards down the field, as we saw against the Giants?

 

This seems like a logical explanation, at least.

Edited September 5, 2016 by OCinBuffalo

[machine gun kelly]

Interesting take. Looks like Roman is getting Chen what he'll do this year. Can't wait for Sunday.

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

I'm excited because it seems like they aren't afraid to be unconventional.

[Juice_32]

This is insane.......I like it.

[Green Lightning]

It's a passing league, until somebody starts steamrolling LBs and DBs with big guys running out of unbalanced and confusing formations. I like it.

[hondo in seattle]

"There is no way to improve on football beyond the unbalanced line single-wing."

— Carl Snavely, college football Hall of Fame, 1872

Edited September 5, 2016 by hondo in seattle

[Niagara Dude]

...yes, it's always a danger to many when I start thinking, I know.

 

However, I've done some research on Vitale, which only adds to my prior thinking, after seeing us run the wishbone last game. I noticed his position was "super-back" at Northwestern, because he would line up in so many different positions. The Bucs drafted him, and some of their fans hyped it, because of this versatility, and because he was thought of as a possible successor to Mike Alstott.

 

However, during their camp, 2 things became clear: 1. They already had 5 TEs on their roster(so...why the F did you draft him with your 6, and ask him to not be versatile, but play straight TE instead?) 2. He didn't block better than the other 5 TEs, which is ostensibly why they released him. The entire thing seems like an exercise in stupid choices.

 

Now, we pick him up. Hey, he was a NFL Combine champion, so why not, right? No. There are some key differences to our offense compared to theirs both from a scheme and personnel viewpoint:

Personnel: we have Shady, Reggie(Gil is a backup to these 2), Williams, and Gronkowski made the team. They have 3 RBs total(including Doug Martin who requires being featured), no Fullback, and all of their TEs are "standard" TE body-types.

 

Scheme: First, understand that I'm talking "normal offense" here. Anybody can line up anybody for things like goal line, 4th down and inches, etc. Tampa runs some 2 TEs plays(or else why did you keep 5?), but, they are never going to do anything more than have a single back, or no back, with only 3 RBs on the team.

 

Our scheme...is where things get interesting. We already expect to see RB/FB/TE/WR/WR on the field for say 30% of the plays, at least. That is a Roman base package. We should see RB/RB/TE/WR/WR, or, RB/RB/FB/TE/WR given Reggie Bush.

 

So, why Vitale? To compete with Gronk? Nah. He's more of a pass catcher than a runner, but, unlike a normal TE, he can run the football. How about to compete with our other TEs? Maybe. But, we already have Clay, and O'Leary is already the pass-catching TE type, who made the team because his blocking improved(thus, why would we claim a guy who's blocking hasn't?)

 

What the hell is it then? My hypothesis: we are getting set up to run the single-wing. Just replace the left side "end" with Cordy Glenn reporting as eligible. Perhaps not the actual single-wing, but something fairly close. Vitale is the wingback in that formation. Evidence: we kept 4 OTs, Henderson is good enough to start, and KJO could do the extra OT job too. There's your unbalanced guy(the single wing uses 3 OTs). Adding an extra OT is damaging to teams that are set up to defend the pass. Then, consider the buck-lateral series. Which, from, the link:

 

 

 

Vitale's "super-back" position is defined by the bolded above.

 

What's to stop us from going RB/FB/FB(or wing back)/TE or WR, with an extra OT, as called for by the single wing? Can you imagine the play action on that thing. Actually, it would be play actions, because we could be faking to 3 different guys coming out of the backfield(RB/FB/WB), at least one of whom will release into a short out pattern as a safety valve.

 

Also, consider the damage that a direct snap to Gronk/Vitale causes. He can "buck", which means run over the center, guards or extra tackle, or behind one of them as they pull. (EDIT: and don't forget, the extra lineman means double teams on all DTs, or firing right off the ball at the LBs) But, he can also hand the ball off to the QB, or pitch it back. He can hand it off to the WB, as the WB cuts back across the field, where he can either run it, or, pitch it back to the QB or RB. Meanwhile, if the TE/WR or TE/TE or WR/WR have run patterns, it sets up a 2nd line of blockers behind the line, for the QB to wait until they get open. In all cases, it creates overloads, on either end, of more blockers, and bigger guys, that the CBs and Ss should lose to.

 

Rather than ask Vitale to block LBs and DEs, this scheme asks him to block CBs and Ss, or release into a pattern, both of which play to his his strengths.

 

I dunno about all this, but there has to be a reason we would pick this guy up, and right now, running the single wing, against defenses that are designed to blitz and cover, with smaller, faster guys? When you have bigger guys that are going to move the point of attack away from where the D wants it to be? And, you have a running QB, who is also athletic enough to run, then set his feet, then throw 60 yards down the field, as we saw against the Giants?

 

This seems like a logical explanation, at least.

Keep in mine this guy is a 6th round rookie.

[Blokestradamus]

It's a passing league, until somebody starts steamrolling LBs and DBs with big guys running out of unbalanced and confusing formations. I like it.

 

Linebackers get smaller and faster, the Bills get bigger and meaner. 1970's football for the !@#$ing win!

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Linebackers get smaller and faster, the Bills get bigger and meaner. 1970's football for the !@#$ing win!

 

It's part of the normal adjustment that offenses and defenses must do. I started a thread a while back on the reemergence of power football.

[Blokestradamus]

 

It's part of the normal adjustment that offenses and defenses must do. I started a thread a while back on the reemergence of power football.

 

I've been preaching it for a couple of years now. Personnel decisions adjust constantly.

 

Patriots draft two tight ends. Teams all of a sudden look for fast linebackers and big safeties. I'm sure we could go back decades and find trends that mirror that. The game is in a constant state of flux.

[Coach Tuesday]

This should give us a chance to beat Army this season!

[vincec]

Let me express one concern regarding this back to the 80s football that we are discussing: Salary Cap.

 

It is generally accepted that it takes more good players to run the football consistently than to pass it. You need a good OL, good TE, good QB and at least one good WR to keep teams honest and of course a of very good RB. In the NFL where defensive players have great range, you pretty much need to successfully block 8 or 9 guys on all running plays for them to work so they are hard- especially out of the tight formations that you are talking about.

 

So how can you possible keep a team with enough good players to make this kind of football work in the salary cap era? You still need a strong defense, right?

Edited September 5, 2016 by vincec

[Dragonborn10]

Nice post

At best it would be a wrinkle to add, but I cant see it being anything more than that. Remember the player you are basing this on wasnt even on the team 5 days ago

I would rather see TT throw 28 times a game

 

Brady threw the ball every down against us while killing the clock. That is how to play football now. Started with Walsh/Montana and Brady with new rules perfected it.

 

Want to win, let TT throw. They have got a superstar WR, a RB with the best hands on the team, and good pieces in Clay, Woods, Bush, an Goodwin. Amd that doesnt even include TT's threat to run.

 

Stay healthy and throw the ball

[Mr. WEO]

The Bills had a FB on 30%of the snaps last year?

[bigK14094]

Another possibility, instead of trying to look so deeply into why the single wing plays against Detroit. Maybe Rex was trying to NOT SHOW our regular offense on film to early season foes. I am thinking we won't see the single wing stuff again this year............he was punking Harbough...........study this single wing stuff....and don't work quite as hard on what we have run in the past........so, basically, I am saying, the single wing plays at Detroit were a mind game for the Ravens.

[fansince88]

Nice post

At best it would be a wrinkle to add, but I cant see it being anything more than that. Remember the player you are basing this on wasnt even on the team 5 days ago

I would rather see TT throw 28 times a game

 

Brady threw the ball every down against us while killing the clock. That is how to play football now. Started with Walsh/Montana and Brady with new rules perfected it.

 

Want to win, let TT throw. They have got a superstar WR, a RB with the best hands on the team, and good pieces in Clay, Woods, Bush, an Goodwin. Amd that doesnt even include TT's threat to run.

 

Stay healthy and throw the ball

Agreed but this kid has great hands from what I have heard.

[Mr. WEO]

Another possibility, instead of trying to look so deeply into why the single wing plays against Detroit. Maybe Rex was trying to NOT SHOW our regular offense on film to early season foes. I am thinking we won't see the single wing stuff again this year............he was punking Harbough...........study this single wing stuff....and don't work quite as hard on what we have run in the past........so, basically, I am saying, the single wing plays at Detroit were a mind game for the Ravens.

 

Do you really think he was trying to distract Harbaugh with the last minute signing of this kid and the single wing?

[GunnerBill]

The Bills had a FB on 30%of the snaps last year?

 

I thought it was closer to 25%.... about 1 in 4.

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

 

It's part of the normal adjustment that offenses and defenses must do. I started a thread a while back on the reemergence of power football.

Agree 100%

 

Everything goes in cycles.

 

If 90% of defenses have small athletic speedy guys to stop an explosive passing attack, the offense that sheds this mold and goes with a strong power game will instantly create favorable matchups.

 

If that team that changed their offense to a power style is the only or one of a few teams in the league there is low risk of opposing defenses altering their personnel and schemes specifically to stop 1 team. They will gear their defense to stop the 90% of teams that are trying to run the up tempo passing attacks.

 

Everything old, is new again.

Edited September 5, 2016 by drinkTHEkoolaid

[BADOLBILZ]

 

It's part of the normal adjustment that offenses and defenses must do. I started a thread a while back on the reemergence of power football.

 

 

Most of the leading rushers last year were 220#-240# backs.

 

Electrifying smaller backs are an endangered species because defenses are faster and can cover and take away the outside run.

 

RIP Cluster McFuxter.

 

It wasn't that long ago that having smaller LB's was something that just sounded good in theory........see Bryan Scott.........but then guys with skills like our own Zach Brown started coming into the league that could really outrun RB's to the edge.

 

A lot of these guys are on defense because the running game became de-emphasized and the opportunities were on the other side of the ball.

 

I think it's a good thing.......it used to be that probably 3-4 of your top 8-10 athletes were RB's and 3 of them hardly ever played.

 

Now these guys are playing and we get to see a lot of really good matchups in the pass game.

 

The power run game is cheaper to implement and big backs would really be running wild if it weren't for the difficulty of constructing an OL and the ridiculous amount of huge DT's that have entered the league.