Hardcore Bills Fan Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 I think so, but having 2 Watkins wouldn't be a problem to me. He's definitely not reliable but he's a real talent. The Bills offense is going to have to score points this year (especially early). I actually think that this is the first time in like 10+ years that the offense is better than the defense. I'm worried about the pass rush. well you seem old school enough to remember what happened when the Bills drafted Mloulds, Reed had a fit that Moulds was being targeted to much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 29, 2016 Author Share Posted August 29, 2016 Yeah, that's true. If I'm the Browns, I won't trade him for anything less than a 2nd. If RG3 stays healthy, they could be exciting. I agree (and I wouldn't give a 2nd). That's too much risk for a guy with his track record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 I agree (and I wouldn't give a 2nd). That's too much risk for a guy with his track record. Not a chance they get a second for him. The real issue is by the time they get any good, he will be gone. So why not get what you can for him now, and let the young guys play and grow up together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 29, 2016 Author Share Posted August 29, 2016 (edited) well you seem old school enough to remember what happened when the Bills drafted Mloulds, Reed had a fit that Moulds was being targeted to much I still don't see what that has to do with this conversation? There is nothing about "Josh Gordon the football player" that I wouldn't want on my team. There are lots of things about "Josh Gordon the person" that give me pause. It's a matter of what you'd have to expend for the chance. The Patriots only spent a 4th for Moss and it was a home run. The Cowboys used a 2nd on Jaylon Smith and he may never play. For me a 4th or less for Gordon and I'd pull the trigger. Anything above that and I'd have to pass. I don't see the Browns taking less than a 2nd. Edited August 29, 2016 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Comparing Receivers today to Jerry Rice is an insult to what Rice did. Rice would have put up 2,000 yards in today's flag football where they pass 40 times a game. Jerry Rice had those years when defenses were much less complex and more balanced to defend the run. The WCO was a perfect counter to the heavy run-based D's of the era and once receivers like he and Andre Reed got into the secondary it was major RAC time against lumber LB's and safeties. Since then defenses have evolved greatly to defend the pass......receivers are almost an entirely new breed of players in terms of size/speed numbers........and the de-emphasis of the running game has moved a lot of great athletes to the defensive side of the ball. There is a lot more passing, but actually less spacing to make plays. We've come to expect defenders to make plays against RAC that they never would have come close to 30 years ago. Gordon's numbers stand out for a lot of reasons and that is just another one of them. Will he ever replicate it? Who knows. But at times it has looked like he is playing at an entirely different speed than defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Bills Fan Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 I still don't see what that has to do with this conversation? There is nothing about "Josh Gordon the football player" that I wouldn't want on my team. There are lots of things about "Josh Gordon the person" that give me pause. It's a matter of what you'd have to expend for the chance. The Patriots only spent a 4th for Moss and it was a home run. The Cowboys used a 2nd on Jaylon Smith and he may never play. For me a 4th or less for Gordon and is pull he trigger. Anything above that and Id have to pass. I don't see the Browns taking less than a 2nd. becuase this is a run first team for starters and Sammy IS the number 1 wr on the team, do you really think Gordon would stand as #2? no he'd throw a fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawolv Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 We have enough distractions! Not to seem short-sided but we need offense to step up the first four games this year, and he can't help there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 29, 2016 Author Share Posted August 29, 2016 becuase this is a run first team for starters and Sammy IS the number 1 wr on the team, do you really think Gordon would stand as #2? no he'd throw a fit. Why? When did he throw a fit before? He is a pothead and socially unaware (for sure); but I still have not seen a thing about him being a malcontent. Also, if you had a threat like Gordon opposite Sammy of course you would be able to open it up more. You are a run first team because you have a good back, a good scheme and good run blocking OL. If you had Gordon and Sammy on the outside you would throw the ball more because you would have the talent to do it. You build your offense or defense based on your talent. New England throws a lot of possession routes because Edelman is so quick to get off the line. They do this instead of a power running game because that is a more effective way for them to control possession downs. It is easier for them to get to 2nd and 4 doing that than it is to run it. That isn't the case with the Bills. They don't have an ultra quick possession guy so they try to run behind Glenn and Incognito and hope to play ahead of the markers that way. We have enough distractions! Not to seem short-sided but we need offense to step up the first four games this year, and he can't help there. I think that is perfectly reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 (edited) Who's more talented? Watkins or Gordon? Edited August 29, 2016 by QB Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 29, 2016 Author Share Posted August 29, 2016 Who's more talented? Watkins or Gordon? Watkins is IMO but I think that Gordon is near that top tier. I just don't see any holes in Watkins game besides for health. He can run the whole Route tree, has explosive burst and great hands. Gordon is incredibly explosive but has off the field issues. He is to me a poor mans Randy Moss. Just that smooth big play ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 The only problem is building an offensive game plan with Gordon as a key piece. Although nowhere as good it's a lot like counting on Goodwin. If they aren't in the lineup it's hard to make an impact. This is a tough one -which is why he's available. I guess it comes down to value, what can we pry him away for. With in reason I would do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Gordon has a warrant out for his arrest. Failure to take a paternity test. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/21/warrant-out-for-josh-gordon-in-paternity-case/ https://twitter.com/Reflog_18/status/778637522859532288 Edited September 21, 2016 by Blokestradamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Gordon has a warrant out for his arrest. Failure to take a paternity test.This is shocking, shocking news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Gordon has a warrant out for his arrest. Failure to take a paternity test. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/21/warrant-out-for-josh-gordon-in-paternity-case/ https://twitter.com/Reflog_18/status/778637522859532288 Thats why you NEVER answer the phone on fathers day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 No if I am trading with the Browns I want Pryor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 No if I am trading with the Browns I want Pryor. We get enough penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 We get enough penalties. OOO Cool your are referencing a BS taunting call. Cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 No if I am trading with the Browns I want Pryor.ffs we could have had him for free but noooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Why? When did he throw a fit before? He is a pothead and socially unaware (for sure); but I still have not seen a thing about him being a malcontent. Also, if you had a threat like Gordon opposite Sammy of course you would be able to open it up more. You are a run first team because you have a good back, a good scheme and good run blocking OL. If you had Gordon and Sammy on the outside you would throw the ball more because you would have the talent to do it. You build your offense or defense based on your talent. New England throws a lot of possession routes because Edelman is so quick to get off the line. They do this instead of a power running game because that is a more effective way for them to control possession downs. It is easier for them to get to 2nd and 4 doing that than it is to run it. That isn't the case with the Bills. They don't have an ultra quick possession guy so they try to run behind Glenn and Incognito and hope to play ahead of the markers that way. I think that is perfectly reasonable. I don't think New England runs those routes because of Edelman ( or Amendola, or Hogan , or even Welker before him, see a pattern here of acquiring these types of WRs) but rather they get the Edelman's et al for the purpose of running those routes. Because of those match ups , they feel it's easier than running. That's largely because they have QB' s that are adept at throwing a WR open while he's still running. That's what they believe in so its what they look for in a QB . The Bills don't have that guy at QB, so they try to hand it off to a skilled RB. It's reasonable that they understand the limitations of their QB. Not reasonable that they don't go get a better one and run an offense similar to NE's . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 We get enough penalties. That was the saddest taunting penalty I've ever seen. I can't believe the back judge didn't overrule it. Just really sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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