PromoTheRobot Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) With the Tyrod extension the Bills have more cap certainty going forward and the franchise tag is freed up to use on Gilmore. That said, a lot depends on 1) how willing are the Bills to make Gilmore the highest paid CB and 2) How much does Gilmore want to remain a Bill? While the franchise tag is an option, more times than not it results in a player balking and holding out. Lots of ugliness. If Gilmore is determined to get out I wonder if Whaley could do what ol' Whitey GM Tom Donahoe did with Peerless Price and the Falcons? For you young whippersnappers, back in 2003 Donahoe managed to get Atlanta's first round pick by tagging WR Price and trading him. Might be one of the biggest draft robberies the Bills ever committed. Edited August 13, 2016 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 With the Tyrod extension the Bills have more cap certainty going forward and the franchise tag is freed up to use on Gilmore. That said, a lot depends on 1) how willing are the Bills to make Gilmore the highest paid CB and 2) How much does Gilmore want to remain a Bill? While the franchise tag is an option, more times than not it results in a player balking and holding out. Lots of ugliness. If Gilmore is determined to get out I wonder if Whaley could do what ol' Whitey GM Tom Donahoe did with Peerless Price and the Falcons? For you young whippersnappers, back in 2003 Donahoe managed to get Atlanta's first round pick by tagging WR Price and trading him. Might be one of the biggest draft robberies the Bills ever committed. could pull off a nice trade. revis got traded to the bucs for a first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 While I really like Gilmore, I believe he has 2 season left in a bills uniform. This season and next under the franchise tag. I don't believe the Bills will make him the highest paid CB, which is what he wants. If Darby can show he's the real deal, he's realistically going to be getting paid more than Gilmore in 3 years. I don't think we'd invest 30 million a year in 2 corners. Gilmore replacement can be drafted next season (or maybe Seymour can be that guy) and be groomed under Gilmore. If we can get a 1st rd pick for Gilmore after this season and Darby has shown he's legit, I'd pull the trigger. Didn't think I'd be saying this, but it's the reality imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Having the tag available next year for Gilmore is great leverage . He makes $11M this season , a tag would be $14M. Hoping Seymour can develop and Darby continues. This is a nice problem for the Bills, good players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I'm sorry, but I can't give him normal money. I give him the franchise tag next year and then hope to trade him. It's too much when we have Darby. Draft a CB next year and let Gilmore get paid somewhere else. Or, if I'm terrible, hope he has an eh season which lets us pay him a little less 😈 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 With the Tyrod extension the Bills have more cap certainty going forward and the franchise tag is freed up to use on Gilmore. While the franchise tag is an option, more times than not it results in a player balking and holding out. Lots of ugliness. . Disagree 100% on this. More times than not , like prolly over 95%, results in a team and a player coming to an agreement . Sucks for the players, they know it..gets a deal done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 With the Tyrod extension the Bills have more cap certainty going forward and the franchise tag is freed up to use on Gilmore. That said, a lot depends on 1) how willing are the Bills to make Gilmore the highest paid CB and 2) How much does Gilmore want to remain a Bill? While the franchise tag is an option, more times than not it results in a player balking and holding out. Lots of ugliness. If Gilmore is determined to get out I wonder if Whaley could do what ol' Whitey GM Tom Donahoe did with Peerless Price and the Falcons? For you young whippersnappers, back in 2003 Donahoe managed to get Atlanta's first round pick by tagging WR Price and trading him. Might be one of the biggest draft robberies the Bills ever committed. More times than not the player balks and holds out? Back that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 More times than not the player balks and holds out? Back that up. Great minds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 right now we have about 8 mil in cap space next year not including whatever cap increase there is. then kw gets released and thats another 6.5 mil. with a couple other releases and we could have close to 25 mil in space or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Tag him and be aggressive about rights under contract. Team needs to show players when you are tagged you need to either take it up with NFLPA why they allowed option or live up to agreement representatives made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 I just remember how tagging Jairus Byrd went. He held out and pouted, then developed a mysterious ailment that kept him out most of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallskiWallski83 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I think it benefits the Bills at this point to table negotiations with Gilmore to the offseason. The guy wants to be paid top dollar, let him go out there and play his ass off for us and prove to the league he is worth it. We still have the franchise tag we can fall back on if he turns in a defensive MVP type season, so we still will have plenty of leverage.The Bills need to be smart with their $. Tyrod is going to hit a lot of his incentives and Sammy Watkins is going to command one of the richest WR contracts in NFL history soon. We are going to be losing talented players one way or another so perhaps a position like CB is one we can afford to let walk because we have talent in the pipeline.I do know this: Rex's defense relies on great CB play, so we better be sure Darby ready to be a true #1 before we let GIlmore go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I just remember how tagging Jairus Byrd went. He held out and pouted, then developed a mysterious ailment that kept him out most of the season. I remember how it worked with Glenn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 While the franchise tag is an option, more times than not it results in a player balking and holding out. . #mathishard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 #mathishard.You act like players never balk at being tagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 You act like players never balk at being tagged. Just the opposite I think...players freaking hate being tagged cause their leverage in a violent game goes to next to nil, forcing them to sign a below market deal. Why it's good for the team to use, sucks for the players. Gilmore will be tagged if they want to keep him, and will sign a deal before July 15 , again, all if the Bills want to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 right now we have about 8 mil in cap space next year not including whatever cap increase there is. then kw gets released and thats another 6.5 mil. with a couple other releases and we could have close to 25 mil in space or more. How are people insisting KW is cut before he even plays a snap in 2016? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I just remember how tagging Jairus Byrd went. He held out and pouted, then developed a mysterious ailment that kept him out most of the season. Oh you saw it once so it's the most common way that it plays out. You act like players never balk at being tagged. An absolutely overwhelming majority either work out an extension or quietly play under the extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 13, 2016 Author Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) Oh you saw it once so it's the most common way that it plays out. An absolutely overwhelming majority either work out an extension or quietly play under the extension. That was a worst case scenario in recent Bills history, but as plenzmd said players and agents hate the tag. Some deal with it while others piss and moan. But it almost always involves some level of unpleasantry. Oh you saw it once so it's the most common way that it plays out. An absolutely overwhelming majority either work out an extension or quietly play under the extension. And let's hope it works out that way for the Bills and Gilmore. But you have to be prepared for the worst. Edited August 13, 2016 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 How are people insisting KW is cut before he even plays a snap in 2016? 8 mil cap hit...1.5 dead cap. has an injury history. just could be the odd man out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 8 mil cap hit...1.5 dead cap. has an injury history. just could be the odd man out. He'll also be 34 years old in 2017--pretty old for a DT who relies on his quicks for penetration. I like KW, but it's a business and paying an old vet that much rather than investing in younger players doesn't sound like a good move to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 (edited) I still think Gilmore gets extended before the regular season starts. If not, he is looking at playing under the one year, guaranteed option this season and the one year, guaranteed franchise tag next season. That's a tough road. He could get more total guaranteed money with a new deal now than he'd get in total this year and next. That's a powerful motivator. I think he's looking for the last nickel on his contract and is taking it as far as he can, but will still sign. I'm surprised there hasn't been a deadline imposed by one side or the other, probably the start of the regular season. The only reason I could see him not signing is if he is set on leaving Buffalo for some reason, but I doubt that's the case. 8 mil cap hit...1.5 dead cap. has an injury history. just could be the odd man out.Actually it'd be $3.5M in dead money if KW was cut now as his $500k roster bonus was already paid. I don't think the Bills will part ways until after the season. He makes sense to keep in 2016, but letting him go next season would save $6.8M ($1.5M dead money). The only other real possibility is that he takes a big paycut. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/kyle-williams/ Edited August 13, 2016 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I still think Gilmore gets extended before the regular season starts. If not, he is looking at playing under the one year, guaranteed option this season and the one year, guaranteed franchise tag next season. That's a tough road. He could get more total guaranteed money with a new deal now than he'd get in total this year and next. That's a powerful motivator. I think he's looking for the last nickel on his contract and is taking it as far as he can, but will still sign. I'm surprised there hasn't been a deadline imposed by one side or the other, probably the start of the regular season. The only reason I could see him not signing is if he is set on leaving Buffalo for some reason, but I doubt that's the case. Actually it'd be $3.5M in dead money if KW was cut now as his $500k roster bonus was already paid. I don't think the Bills will part ways until after the season. He makes sense to keep in 2016, but letting him go next season would save $6.8M ($1.5M dead money). The only other real possibility is that he takes a big paycut. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/kyle-williams/ yes i meant after this year. 1.5 dead cap number next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDRupp Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 yes i meant after this year. 1.5 dead cap number next year. There is also a chance he plays very well and they decide to keep him at that number or just slightly less. Not a huge chance of this but counting out KW is not a wise bet even at his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I still think Gilmore gets extended before the regular season starts. If not, he is looking at playing under the one year, guaranteed option this season and the one year, guaranteed franchise tag next season. That's a tough road. He could get more total guaranteed money with a new deal now than he'd get in total this year and next. That's a powerful motivator. I think he's looking for the last nickel on his contract and is taking it as far as he can, but will still sign. I'm surprised there hasn't been a deadline imposed by one side or the other, probably the start of the regular season. The only reason I could see him not signing is if he is set on leaving Buffalo for some reason, but I doubt that's the case. Actually it'd be $3.5M in dead money if KW was cut now as his $500k roster bonus was already paid. I don't think the Bills will part ways until after the season. He makes sense to keep in 2016, but letting him go next season would save $6.8M ($1.5M dead money). The only other real possibility is that he takes a big paycut. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/kyle-williams/ I think Gilmore has stated no negotiations during the season...but that can always change if the money is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 8 mil cap hit...1.5 dead cap. has an injury history. just could be the odd man out. The smart money says that he may not have much time left as a Bill but I just have a feeling that he will renegotiate a team friendly deal to try and play out his career here. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 The smart money says that he may not have much time left as a Bill but I just have a feeling that he will renegotiate a team friendly deal to try and play out his career here. We'll see. his cap hit is 8 mil but only 4.5 mil in cash. i'm sure a capoligist can figure around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Bottom line.....now that TT has his extention the bills hold all the cards on GIlmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 yes i meant after this year. 1.5 dead cap number next year. Oh, sorry. I misunderstood you,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I think Gilmore has stated no negotiations during the season...but that can always change if the money is right I missed that. Thanks. It's good to have a working deadline. Sometimes deals don't get done unless there is a sense of urgency. Creating that sense of urgency, be it real or fake, is common for negotiators (and advertisers). The start of the regular season is a common deadline in the NFL, and it's almost certainly real. It's better that everyone knows where things stand going into real games. Happy or not, everyone can do their jobs without continuing negotiations distracting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Gilmore is going to play hard this year. This is a good thing. Darby is starting our rough so far, thats concern. Tag is great option and I expect Bills will not be shy to use it. And i expect Gilmore will again play hard That give Bills time to find lost money again. Bills seem to be much smarter with money since the regime change This is a good thing too. And never count out Kyle. Certainly too soon for that kind of talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Gilmore is going to play hard this year. This is a good thing. Darby is starting our rough so far, thats concern. Tag is great option and I expect Bills will not be shy to use it. And i expect Gilmore will again play hard That give Bills time to find lost money again. Bills seem to be much smarter with money since the regime change This is a good thing too. And never count out Kyle. Certainly too soon for that kind of talk Last preseason was rough too. That wasn't really indicative of things to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Last preseason was rough too. That wasn't really indicative of things to come. I recall that too well. And he surprised everyone I think. Just saying I would not be considering him as Gilmore's replacement just yet. and yes he was fantastic last season, love the Kid ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I just remember how tagging Jairus Byrd went. He held out and pouted, then developed a mysterious ailment that kept him out most of the season. Yes, but that is unusual, and largely related to Byrd being a selfish POS. Gilmore may take the same approach, but it is not the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I recall that too well. And he surprised everyone I think. Just saying I would not be considering him as Gilmore's replacement just yet. and yes he was fantastic last season, love the Kid ! No i don't think he is considered a replacement but having the pieces in play to be serviceable at this position IF we lose Gilmore one way or another is key. (Also, Darby is a real cool guy. Having run into him on a number of occasions, I have to say he has always been pleasant. Definitely pulling for him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 No i don't think he is considered a replacement but having the pieces in play to be serviceable at this position IF we lose Gilmore one way or another is key. (Also, Darby is a real cool guy. Having run into him on a number of occasions, I have to say he has always been pleasant. Definitely pulling for him) Some folks have mentioned Darby is as good if not better then Stephon. Not you good sir. But is has been used in discussion about Gilmore's contract. When Bills let Leodis go i felt Bills got a bit thin a CB, although I feel good about the DBs in general still. But what Bills do next season to bolster the CBs will be telling. I say they try and keep Gilmore. long term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 In a passing league , good CB s are critical , especially if they can cover 1 on 1 . If Gilmore plays well this season , find a way to pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 In a passing league , good CB s are critical , especially if they can cover 1 on 1 . If Gilmore plays well this season , find a way to pay him. Even if they tag him, i want them to pay him long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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