BuffaloBill Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series Was the series a winner, a loser or something else? (I suppose asking on this board makes this a rhetorical question but it is worthy of discussion) If you consider it a loser was there anything redeeming or positive lessons learned from it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 It would be hard to call it a success on any level, but I'm so happy we are where we are today, with new owners and a bright future in Buffalo, I can forgive and forget. I'm just glad it's over.... I'm sure the Rams and Raiders fans would trade spots with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) I think it was a success in an odd way. I think it showed people on the outside looking in (myself included) just how much the people in WNY cared about their team. How much the thought of losing the team could unite them in a common cause. I think it also showed the NFL that a Toronto franchise might struggle to be viable. Edited July 6, 2016 by Blokestradamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I think it was a success because it netted the owner a pile of money and that was its primary intent. Nothing else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Financially for the crooked old man it was a windfall. Football-wise it was an abject disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I think it was a success because it netted the owner a pile of money and that was its primary intent. Nothing else Exactly. It evened the playing field for the Wilsons who were lower than many teams in revenue. It demonstrated to me a Toronto team would not be that easy to make viable, but maybe if there for the whole season, not that I want that to happen. As much as people didn't like Ralph getting the Toronto money, it kept the team in Buffalo, and the Wilson family set the sale up for the Bills to remain in Buffalo. Than they donated a considerable amount of their wealth to recipients in Buffalo. I may have disagreed with Ralph all those years of picking coaches on the cheap, but we wouldn't have the Bills without him. I don't see the Pegulas trading away regular season games. I could care less how many pre-season games they play in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I think it was a success in an odd way. I think it showed people on the outside looking in (myself included) just how much the people in WNY cared about their team. How much the thought of losing the team could unite them in a common cause. I think it also showed the NFL that a Toronto franchise might struggle to be viable. Thats a good point. For Bills fans, a loss on the series is a win. It showed the NFL owners that despite making sense on paper, we havent quite figured out Canadians yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 It was a LOSER in the worst possible way #@! you Toronto And thats coming from someone who was born there CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I think the correct answer is that the Toronto series was a success because it failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 It made money, so success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 (edited) I think the NFL was hoping to create a huge buzz and event. Rogers family would keep giving Wilson money for the games (perhaps expanding the series) and keep their placeholder on the team. Once Mr. Wilson passed away, Rogers would have been capable of blowing any offer out of the water and it would be the Toronto Bills, already with the trial run, fan base, and built in disclaimer that it is only 'an hour from Buffalo". The NFL (and Rogers) vastly overestimated the amount of interest and desire from the GTA. Ticket prices were set too high, people were lukewarm up there. It was also a factor that the Bills were in the process of being completely irrelevant as a competitive NFL team. They expected this huge raucous event as an audition for the NFL, but it fell on its face and was on life support at the end. Especially once players started to hint displeasure in the games/venue. Rogers lost money on the deal and had to reel back the preseason portion almost immediately. Also, Rogers passing away so quickly IMO threw a huge monkey wrench in the process as his heirs didn't have the appetite to bring the NFL to Canada like the old man did. There was/is also some deal of family drama that would make it difficult for them to band together the funding for the team, relocating, and a facility. That leaves MLSE and Bon Jovi who arent the juggernaut Rogers is. The lease and NRA is friendly to WNY... but a huge factor is Mr. Wilson passing the way he did. If he passes in March of 2017 or 2018, it could have been a completely different story. The NFL would very much have preferred the Bills relocation to Toronto IMO, but the timing of Mr. Wilson's passing combined with the NRA and Pegula's interest and wealth was the perfect storm that made it impossible. So the verdict: Mr Wilson/family: Victory, earned more money Bills: mixed. Got money through the Wilson family. The regionalization into GTA aspect fell flat (in large part to the quality of team) NFL: Loss Wanted NFL in Toronto out of this. Fell flat. Optics were getting very bad by the end Rogers: Loss Wanted NFL in Toronto. Ted Rogers passed away early leaving a rudderless ship. Certainly lost money on first deal, terms of 2nd were swept under rug but deal was axed anyways Bills Fans: Win. Just because we are where we are now. Maybe if there wasn't a deal, Rogers just buys the team outright in 2008. It stunk at the time and felt like a slap in the face every time the Bills told us we were incapable of selling out December games, but we survived. Edited July 6, 2016 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 The verdict for me is pretty straight forward. For the Bills it's a win. They got a boatload of money for the games they relocated to Toronto. I personally think it had little to do with expanding the fan base because Canadians were already crossing the boarder to watch games at the Ralph. For Toronto it is an absolute loss. They weren't able to fill a stadium that couldn't even take 50k fans. Part of that had to do with ridiculous prices being charged. But there's a bigger point here. They GET those ridiculous prices in London no matter who's playing over there. For Canada as a whole, to have one of your richest cities not pay for games is pretty telling that it may not be the best expansion market. For Bills fans, it's a win. I know so many people with season tickets that were PISSED to have a game taken from them that they won't drive 6 hours round trip to watch. The economic demographic of the fans that live in WNY is vastly different than the economic demographic that crosses the boarder from Canada. So for Bills fans, getting back their home games is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Ralph probably needed to do it for cash flow but it was having 9 road games while being in the same division as Brady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 The words Bills, Toronto, and success should never be in the same sentence CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 The words Bills, Toronto, and success should never be in the same sentence CBF LMAO that's a fact. That was whole gimmick was awful in every way possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 It was a success for RWJ, who made a pile of cash. It was a failure in every other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 It was a LOSER in the worst possible way #@! you Toronto And thats coming from someone who was born there CBF This is why the queen should have never cut you Canadians loose. I think it was a success in an odd way. I think it showed people on the outside looking in (myself included) just how much the people in WNY cared about their team. How much the thought of losing the team could unite them in a common cause. I think it also showed the NFL that a Toronto franchise might struggle to be viable. Great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series Was the series a winner, a loser or something else? (I suppose asking on this board makes this a rhetorical question but it is worthy of discussion) If you consider it a loser was there anything redeeming or positive lessons learned from it? I thought it was a winner. As a season ticket holder I liked not having to buy two pre-season games, as much as didn't like losing a regular season game I really liked the idea of welcoming Canadian fans on board. Toronto is a world-class city and home of some terrific fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Exactly. It evened the playing field for the Wilsons who were lower than many teams in revenue. It demonstrated to me a Toronto team would not be that easy to make viable, but maybe if there for the whole season, not that I want that to happen. As much as people didn't like Ralph getting the Toronto money, it kept the team in Buffalo, and the Wilson family set the sale up for the Bills to remain in Buffalo. Than they donated a considerable amount of their wealth to recipients in Buffalo. I may have disagreed with Ralph all those years of picking coaches on the cheap, but we wouldn't have the Bills without him. I don't see the Pegulas trading away regular season games. I could care less how many pre-season games they play in Toronto. I don't see how any of that is true. Wilson was making tens of millions in operating income (12.4 million on 206 million total revenue and their revenue was higher than 9 other teams in 2007) in those years before the Toronto sellout. Nothing from those games resulted in the Bills staying in Buffalo. They were never going to Toronto, no matter how many times people repeat that they though that they would. Those games were an embarrassment to the brand and to the players thrown into that freak show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottaRun Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 1. My old neighbor worked for the NFL and the Bills In Toronto series. At one point they were thinking $200 lowest seat price, steak and lobster in the suites, easy money, easy sellouts. On the eve of the first game he walked over with a fistful of premium tickets that he couldn't give away and asked me how many more seats I could fill. Disaster on the ticket selling front. 2. Game wise the stadium had no atmosphere. Dead. The people who showed up were really just NFL fans who came along for the sake of being there. Handful of Bills fans, more 'away' fans. Disaster on the atmosphere front. 3. Bills wise it showed that the NFL that Toronto fans weren't the suckers the NFL thought they'd be. The Bills remained in Buffalo and have a new Buffalo biased owner. I only really care about #3. So the Bills in Toronto was a massive success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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