Ronin Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) I haven't seen much discussion of this in the media or elsewhere, but Ryan is on record now as stating that last season instead of running his own defense he attempted to blend his defense and Schwartz's and run a hybrid of the two. That may not be exactly how he stated it, but the gist is the same. We know that Schwartz didn't routinely drop DEs and DTs into coverage, so that part of the "hybrid D" that Ryan ran last season must be his. I don't know whether he was known for this in NY or not, I haven't looked. Either way, sounds idiotic and a very inefficient use of players. What's next, Darby rushing the passer by sneaking up into the NT slot. It's also hardly optimizing the talent on the D, which given the hybrid, is clearly why his D underacheived Schwartz's by a country mile. Is it safe to assume that the D would have been even worse had Ryan run entirely his own, perhaps equaling his last four 20th, 20th, 19th, and 24th ranked scoring Ds in NY, instead of our 15th ranked scoring D last season? Entirely rhetorical but that's the logic of it. In short, it would seem that we can continue to see the things that the defensive linemen complained about the most, aka dropping into coverage, because if those weren't Ryan's ideas then he's lying through his teeth, which is also a distinct possiblity on this team full of people that cannot seem to come clean with anyone. I guess I'm just curious why no one is challenging that outright. Again, maybe they have and I just haven't seen it, although I've been looking since Ryan made those statements and haven't seen it, definitely not in the media. Seems to me that if that happens again we're in for another long season with challenges upon the challenges that we already have rendering it an uphill battle out of the gates. Edited June 3, 2016 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Is that Von Miller dropping into coverage and intercepting Brady I see... EDIT: In case you haven't notice, lots of teams and lots of DL do this. Even star players. Edited June 3, 2016 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) If you have the horses to beat people, just beat them. (See season with Schwartz.) Rex would rather trick them, it's what he does. Brady hasn't been fooled and the CB coming from the sideline is likely going to get to him well after the ball is released and just before the WR crosses our goal line. There is a time and place for these tactics, but I don't see Rex as being the master he used to be perceived to be. I bet that didn't help you. Give him enough rope. Edited June 3, 2016 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 I haven't seen much discussion of this in the media or elsewhere, but Ryan is on record now as stating that last season instead of running his own defense he attempted to blend his defense and Schwartz's and run a hybrid of the two. That may not be exactly how he stated it, but the gist is the same. We know that Schwartz didn't routinely drop DEs and DTs into coverage, so that part of the "hybrid D" that Ryan ran last season must be his. I don't know whether he was known for this in NY or not, I haven't looked. Either way, sounds idiotic and a very inefficient use of players. What's next, Darby rushing the passer by sneaking up into the NT slot. It's also hardly optimizing the talent on the D, which given the hybrid, is clearly why his D underacheived Schwartz's by a country mile. Is it safe to assume that the D would have been even worse had Ryan run entirely his own, perhaps equaling his last four 20th, 20th, 19th, and 24th ranked scoring Ds in NY, instead of our 15th ranked scoring D last season? Entirely rhetorical but that's the logic of it. In short, it would seem that we can continue to see the things that the defensive linemen complained about the most, aka dropping into coverage, because if those weren't Ryan's ideas then he's lying through his teeth, which is also a distinct possiblity on this team full of people that cannot seem to come clean with anyone. I guess I'm just curious why no one is challenging that outright. Again, maybe they have and I just haven't seen it, although I've been looking since Ryan made those statements and haven't seen it, definitely not in the media. Seems to me that if that happens again we're in for another long season with challenges upon the challenges that we already have rendering it an uphill battle out of the gates. Yikes. Rex isn't the only coach dropping Dlinemen into short zone coverages. It's something coaches do to confuse the QB and hinder the short passing game. It can work if the rest of the defense knows it's assignments and performs them at an NFL level. The later was the problem last year, any concepts look foolish when you have a bunch of guys failing to line up in the right spots. If they can't even line up are you confident they knew their assignments after the snap? Greg Bedard's not, and he is one of the better guys when reviewing game tape, he also has a familiarity with Rex and he said we weren't even close when asked if we were up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Every team does this; it's not unique to Rex and it's not new. Have a look at the clip below, where you'll see the defending NFC Champs dropping their best DLman--a 320-lb NT--into coverage in the NFC title game (1:38 mark): http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-top100-2016/0ap3000000666117/Top-100-Players-of-2016-No-58-Kawann-Short Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Every team does this; it's not unique to Rex and it's not new. Have a look at the clip below, where you'll see the defending NFC Champs dropping their best DLman--a 320-lb NT--into coverage in the NFC title game (1:38 mark): http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-top100-2016/0ap3000000666117/Top-100-Players-of-2016-No-58-Kawann-Short In the Super Bowl Kony Ealy picked Manning as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 The only thing better than the complete lack of football knowledge displayed in the opening post in this thread is the specious reasoning and logical leaps that follow. This is like accidental crayonz. Crayonzidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Is that Von Miller dropping into coverage and intercepting Brady I see... EDIT: In case you haven't notice, lots of teams and lots of DL do this. Even star players. Well I don't! Regards,The Sack Artist formerly known as #94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 If you have the horses to beat people, just beat them. (See season with Schwartz.) Rex would rather trick them, it's what he does. Brady hasn't been fooled and the CB coming from the sideline is likely going to get to him well after the ball is released and just before the WR crosses our goal line. There is a time and place for these tactics, but I don't see Rex as being the master he used to be perceived to be. I bet that didn't help you. Give him enough rope. Rex has done a good job in the past of tricking Brady. The second game in NE comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 If you have the horses to beat people, just beat them. (See season with Schwartz.) Rex would rather trick them, it's what he does. Brady hasn't been fooled and the CB coming from the sideline is likely going to get to him well after the ball is released and just before the WR crosses our goal line. There is a time and place for these tactics, but I don't see Rex as being the master he used to be perceived to be. I bet that didn't help you. Give him enough rope. There's balance you have to maintain. At the NFL level, no team is so much better than their opponents that they can just line up in a vanilla scheme and win. On the other hand, it's usually a lot easier to confuse bad teams with scheme than good ones. At some point you have to beat the guy in front of you if you are going to win the big games. Bills need to find the right mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 There's balance you have to maintain. At the NFL level, no team is so much better than their opponents that they can just line up in a vanilla scheme and win. On the other hand, it's usually a lot easier to confuse bad teams with scheme than good ones. At some point you have to beat the guy in front of you if you are going to win the big games. Bills need to find the right mix. Wannastache disagrees. If only his players had taken his advice and fit it up. We would've been like the Steel Curtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Is that Von Miller dropping into coverage and intercepting Brady I see... EDIT: In case you haven't notice, lots of teams and lots of DL do this. Even star players. but do they do it that well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) How about this 2014 game 1 interception by Kyle Williams while in coverage: http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Cant-Miss-Play-Kyle-Williams-1st-Interception/9d0a1397-db1c-4d70-b710-afcc421a5a1c Oh the horror!! Edited June 3, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 The only thing better than the complete lack of football knowledge displayed in the opening post in this thread is the specious reasoning and logical leaps that follow. This is like accidental crayonz. Crayonzidental. All of his posts have been laughable. He's trying to take BillsVet spot as king of the NNN's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Is that Von Miller dropping into coverage and intercepting Brady I see... EDIT: In case you haven't notice, lots of teams and lots of DL do this. Even star players. isn't Miller an OLB? How about this 2014 game 1 interception by Kyle Williams while in coverage: http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Cant-Miss-Play-Kyle-Williams-1st-Interception/9d0a1397-db1c-4d70-b710-afcc421a5a1c Oh the horror!! I don't think Williams was dropping in to coverage....he was chasing the play down the line of scrimmage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 How about this 2014 game 1 interception by Kyle Williams while in coverage: http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Cant-Miss-Play-Kyle-Williams-1st-Interception/9d0a1397-db1c-4d70-b710-afcc421a5a1c Oh the horror!! Don't show that to Mariocre, he'll cry like a baby!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Schwartz ran his share of zone blitzes; every DC does. When you ask DEs to stand up and play OLB, they are going to have to cover the flats and pick up the occasional TE. Ideally, they wouldn't complain about it and make it a reason to pout and quit on their teammates, especially when they have the athleticism to not only do the job, but actually excel at it. This mythology that RR dropped DLmen into coverage all the time is ridiculous. It's like people see it a few times in a game (Cinci, anyone?) and they make it the rule rather than the exception it actually is. Watching the games closely helps. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) I think what might make it unique (and part of the problem) is that its not that OTHER teams dont do it.....its that SCHWARTZ didnt do it (very much...it just seems to me that every D does this now and then)......so then Rex Ryan comes in with is knew system and the DL is like "huh?" I have come to a couple of opinions (my own of course) - I have this feeling that had Schwartz stayed.....and we ran that same D as the previous year.....we would have STILL declined on D.....I dont know how far......but an offseason of looking at our D schemes by other NFL teams I think we were due for a regression. 15 spots of regression? I dont know. - Does anyone notice that when we lost key players in the Schwartz D we really felt it.....for instance the Raiders game? That D was awesome.....but at times it did show the kinks in its armour - Rex doesnt rely on having dominant players and no injuries at every position to work......in his system the scheme is more important then the certain player......for instance....it requires a DL to drop into short zone coverage......not player X....but a player that has short zone coverage ability. That is why defensive players that can do different things are highly valuable to a Rex Ryan defense. Now....having said all that......I will be horrified if I watch Marcel D. drop into short zone coverage.....I just dont want to see that at all Edited June 3, 2016 by John from Hemet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Well I don't! Regards,The Sack Artist formerly known as #94 Hey, sack artist! You have the elite athletic ability to excel at the job you were asked to do but not professional enough to do it. Regards, anyone that actually gives a schit about his teammates. GO BILLS!!! I think what might make it unique (and part of the problem) is that its not that OTHER teams dont do it.....its that SCHWARTZ didnt do it (very much...it just seems to me that every D does this now and then)......so then Rex Ryan comes in with is knew system and the DL is like "huh?" I have come to a couple of opinions (my own of course) - I have this feeling that had Schwartz stayed.....and we ran that same D as the previous year.....we would have STILL declined on D.....I dont know how far......but an offseason of looking at our D schemes by other NFL teams I think we were due for a regression. 15 spots of regression? I dont know. - Does anyone notice that when we lost key players in the Schwartz D we really felt it.....for instance the Raiders game? That D was awesome.....but at times it did show the kinks in its armour - Rex doesnt rely on having dominant players and no injuries at every position to work......in his system the scheme is more important then the certain player......for instance....it requires a DL to drop into short zone coverage......not player X....but a player that has short zone coverage ability. That is why defensive players that can do different things are highly valuable to a Rex Ryan defense. Now....having said all that......I will be horrified if I watch Marcel D. drop into short zone coverage.....I just dont want to see that at all This is an interesting take. One reason I think it may have merit, is that as 2014 progressed, our LBs were badly exposed for the poor pass defenders they were. They got eaten alive on shallow crossers and other quick developing plays that negated our pass rush. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 isn't Miller an OLB? I don't think Williams was dropping in to coverage....he was chasing the play down the line of scrimmage What? He sure as heck wasn't chasing Cutler like a DT would normally do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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