Crashing and burning and Bill

[The Big Cat]

i don't think it is certain that we would not have got tyrod. we needed a qb. we had more to offer than any other team. whaley needed a qb - it makes sense that tyrod would have been high on the radar.

 

i don't think it's certain either. but i also don't think it's certain he WOULD have been with the team, so it's unfair to take it as a given.

[John from Riverside]

 

I think the argument would have intensified, actually.

 

Marrone/Schwartz would have likely meant no TT: if, in fact, it was Rex who pushed to bring him in.

 

So who the hell would have been the quarterback? And what the hell kind of impact would he have had on wins/losses? And how much of that would have been blamed on Marrone? How much of it would have been warranted?

Lets keep in mind that also would have meant no Roman.....and all the implications that would have had to the situation.

[The Big Cat]

Lets keep in mind that also would have meant no Roman.....and all the implications that would have had to the situation.

 

Great point.

 

Spiller, Jackson, McCoy, Herron, Gillslie, Boobie, Karlos, Felton, Brown, Summers, Wood: we can't profess to know who would have contributed or not have contributed what.

Edited March 25, 2016 by The Big Cat

[Bill from NYC]

What was actually said was flippant and utterly incorrect. Your pathetic attempts to wiggle out from underneath the weight of your own arrogant brand of aggressive ignorance are equally misguided.

Get used to it. He has the time and patience to beat it into our heads to NOT think that Rex is a phony, self serving huckster. TBC seems to demand that we don't blame Rex. We should even be glad that we hired his loser brother.

 

Now, Tyrod was what was wrong with the Bills, and if you don't march lockstep to this nonsense you might have a problem.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Bill from NYC

[3rdand12]

to the OP.

 

Like a Phoenix, they will rise from the ashes.

The crash and burn happened in week two

[John from Riverside]

Get used to it. He has the time and patience to beat it into our heads to NOT think that Rex is a phony, self serving huckster. TBC seems to demand that we don't blame Rex. We should even be glad that we hired his loser brother.

 

Now, Tyrod was what was wrong with the Bills, and if you don't march lockstep to this nonsense you might have a problem.

If you are true to your convictions nobody else on the board should be able to sway you.

 

I personally do not think Rex Ryan is a phony.....but I do think he made mistakes.

 

but

 

because I dont believe he is a phone I think these mistakes can be corrected. One of the CORRECT things he did was bring in Roman

[4merper4mer]

 

I think the argument would have intensified, actually.

 

Marrone/Schwartz would have likely meant no TT: if, in fact, it was Rex who pushed to bring him in.

 

So who the hell would have been the quarterback? And what the hell kind of impact would he have had on wins/losses? And how much of that would have been blamed on Marrone? How much of it would have been warranted?

 

While I agree that Rex > Marrone because even though he is a complete disaster at least he is a decent guy. It is so sad that the "offensive genius" destroyed the offense then the "defensive genius" destroyed the defense. Bills fans deserve better than to have coaches who can never question the one thing they "know". Rex "knowing" defense has already destroyed our 2016. That doesn't mean Marrone wouldn't have destroyed us too.

Edited March 26, 2016 by 4merper4mer

[yungmack]

I'm not sure some people have been able to put what happened last season into proper perspective: the Broncos won the Super Bowl with LITERALLY the worst quarterback in all of football. Could you make the argument that you maybe would've taken him over a handful of starting QB's in the league in the playoffs due to his experience? Sure. Maybe a handful. But dude, to make this about Tyrod Taylor again? The Bills offense finished 13th/12th in total offense/scoring. If you don't think they could've WON THE SUPER BOWL (not saying they would've but they could've- they obviously would've made the playoffs) with the 2014 Jim Schwartz defense, then I really question your football acumen. Defense is kind of important.

 

The key phrase is "with the 2014 Jim Schwartz defense." The Wrex D of 2015 was abysmal. Will the 2016 D be better? Considering that Wrex seems to be stubbornly doubling down on his "my way or the highway" approach (which some commentators consider out of date in the current style of NFL play), plus bringing in brother Boob whose record ain't stellar, the departure of several D players in part because "they didn't fit the scheme" (some call that rebuilding tho it's weird to rebuild what was a top D before the Wrexer came to town), Wrex's strange ongoing negativity towards Preston Brown who, only a year prior, was considered such a smart, talented player that the Bills traded Kiko and handed the D quarterbacking to him, and uncertainty about how he intends to use Dareus and Kyle.

 

I went to the first Bills training camp at Seymour Knox's polo field in 1960 and have been following the Bills ever since. This team is far from the worst of all time; in fact, it's one of the better ones from the front office thru scouting to personnel. The fly in the ointment remains the big mouthed head coach who reminds me of no one as much as Joel Collier, a previous "genius" who, having OJ as his top pick, proceeded to use him as decoy! That bullheadedness led to his firing and to the return of Lou Saban (still the greatest coach in Bills history). So there's hope.

Edited March 25, 2016 by yungmack

[The Big Cat]

 

The key phrase is "with the 2014 Jim Schwartz defense." The Wrex D of 2015 was abysmal. Will the 2016 D be better? Considering that Wrex seems to be stubbornly doubling down on his "my way or the highway" approach (which some commentators consider out of date in the current style of NFL play), plus bringing in brother Boob whose record ain't stellar, the departure of several D players in part because "they didn't fit the scheme" (some call that rebuilding tho it's weird to rebuild what was a top D before the Wrexer came to town), Wrex's strange ongoing negativity towards Preston Brown who, only a year prior, was considered such a smart, talented player that the Bills traded Kiko and handed the D quarterbacking to him, and uncertainty about how he intends to use Dareus and Kyle.

 

I went to the first Bills training camp at Seymour Knox's polo field in 1960 and have been following the Bills ever since. This team is far from the worst of all time; in fact, it's one of the better ones from the front office thru scouting to personnel. The fly in the ointment remains the big mouthed head coach who reminds me of no one as much as Joel Collier, a previous "genius" who, having OJ as his top pick, proceeded to use him as decoy! That bullheadedness led to his firing and to the return of Lou Saban (still the greatest coach in Bills history). So there's hope.

 

Come on. The 2011/12 defenses were abysmal. 2015 with mediocre. A let down from where it was, granted--and we're light years from a consensus as to why that is. But it was not abysmal.

Get used to it. He has the time and patience to beat it into our heads to NOT think that Rex is a phony, self serving huckster. TBC seems to demand that we don't blame Rex. We should even be glad that we hired his loser brother.

 

Now, Tyrod was what was wrong with the Bills, and if you don't march lockstep to this nonsense you might have a problem.

 

I don't know why we have to make it personal/antagonistic...every time.

 

I feel more secure in my assertions when rebuttals to them are about me.

[metzelaars_lives]

This happens with every NFL team......even the good ones.

 

The fact is this offense was better from its previous year.....and its defense was not.

 

I admit they need to improve on 3rd down completion (and the trick plays by Roman drive me nuts) but this team led the league in rushing.

 

We dont know what Tyrod at his best is just yet. That is kinda the point.

Exactly. Taylor is way better than Eli and Flacco were in their first seasons as starters. Let's just see what happens instead of diagnosing him as "meh" after one season. Again, very few people seem to grasp just how good the guy was for a first year starter. Far too many people are in the "well he was in the league studying behind a good QB so I'm gonna compare him to a fifth year starter rather than a first year starter" camp.

[KD in CA]

I don't get the crash and burn rationale. They haven't lost anyone who provided a significant contribution last year, they've added some depth and will certainly address the D in the draft. Not to mention, they had significant injury issues last year which hopefully won't be as bad this season. I can't see them being worse than last year and IMO it's likely they'll be better.

 

That said, the comparisons between the Bills defense in 2014 and the Broncos defense in 2015 have reached absurd levels on this board. Now the Bills would have challenged for a Super Bowl last year?!? Good grief.

[metzelaars_lives]

 

Come on. The 2011/12 defenses were abysmal. 2015 with mediocre. A let down from where it was, granted--and we're light years from a consensus as to why that is. But it was not abysmal.

 

 

I don't know why we have to make it personal/antagonistic...every time.

 

I feel more secure in my assertions when rebuttals to them are about me.

Ehh I'm gonna say that you referring to Taylor as "meh" was the very definition of antagonistic as you knew exactly where this conversation was going to head from there.

I don't get the crash and burn rationale. They haven't lost anyone who provided a significant contribution last year, they've added some depth and will certainly address the D in the draft. Not to mention, they had significant injury issues last year which hopefully won't be as bad this season. I can't see them being worse than last year and IMO it's likely they'll be better.

 

That said, the comparisons between the Bills defense in 2014 and the Broncos defense in 2015 have reached absurd levels on this board. Now the Bills would have challenged for a Super Bowl last year?!? Good grief.

Hold on a second. Nobody said the 2014 Bills defense was in the same class as this year's Broncos. This year's Broncos defense was one of the best in history; the 2014 Bills was one of the best in the league. Everyone knows that. What people, including myself, have contended is that if the 2015 Bills got the same play from their defense that they did in 2014, they absolutely could've contended for a Super Bowl. Don't forget, the Bills offense this past season was significantly better than the Broncos. Edited March 25, 2016 by metzelaars_lives

[BarleyNY]

Right now there's less talent on the Bills defense than there was last season. There's still the draft ahead - and maybe some cutdown pickups - but I highly doubt that there'll be as much talent on defense as last season. Any improvement over last season will have to come from the development of players, better luck with injuries, better fit of players to scheme and familiarity of players with the scheme. A net improvement is possible, but my money is on seeing everything net out to a middle of the pack defense again.

[3rdand12]

 

i don't think it's certain either. but i also don't think it's certain he WOULD have been with the team, so it's unfair to take it as a given.

I agree. I had no idea who he was or even why anyone cared. somebody had been scouting him though!

[FireChan]

I still love BC's citation for his argument is a cherry picked post he made. Look, I said it right here! The evidence is clear!

[The Big Cat]

Ehh I'm gonna say that you referring to Taylor as "meh" was the very definition of antagonistic as you knew exactly where this conversation was going to head from there.

Hold on a second. Nobody said the 2014 Bills defense was in the same class as this year's Broncos. This year's Broncos defense was one of the best in history; the 2014 Bills was one of the best in the league. Everyone knows that. What people, including myself, have contended is that if the 2015 Bills got the same play from their defense that they did in 2014, they absolutely could've contended for a Super Bowl. Don't forget, the Bills offense this past season was significantly better than the Broncos.

Except the Bills offense WASNT significantly better. Buffalo managed 24 more points and 87 more yards.

I still love BC's citation for his argument is a cherry picked post he made. Look, I said it right here! The evidence is clear!

You've had six weeks to refute any of it. In fact you pledged to offset the analysis with your own. Still nothing.

 

Just making it about me, per always.

Disagree.

 

You give the 2015 offense the 2014 defense and this team is most likely in the AFC Championship game, IMO.

 

How do you figure a wildcard loss with a dominant defense and Tyrod?

 

As mentioned already, the Broncos won the Super Bowl with an awful and washed up Peyton Manning.

 

Yes, but Tyrod is not 2015 Peyton or Trent Dilfer. He is better.

Conference championship?

 

Jesus. The legend of Tyrod and the 2014 defense grows.

Disagree.

 

You give the 2015 offense the 2014 defense and this team is most likely in the AFC Championship game, IMO.

 

How do you figure a wildcard loss with a dominant defense and Tyrod?

 

As mentioned already, the Broncos won the Super Bowl with an awful and washed up Peyton Manning.

 

Yes, but Tyrod is not 2015 Peyton or Trent Dilfer. He is better.

Conference championship?

 

Jesus. The legend of Tyrod and the 2014 defense grows.

[FireChan]

Except the Bills offense WASNT significantly better. Buffalo managed 24 more points and 87 more yards.

 

You've had six weeks to refute any of it. In fact you pledged to offset the analysis with your own. Still nothing.

 

Just making it about me, per always.

 

Conference championship?

 

Jesus. The legend of Tyrod and the 2014 defense grows.

 

Conference championship?

 

Jesus. The legend of Tyrod and the 2014 defense grows.

I pledged to refute it once we picked terms. We haven't yet. I've waited.

[The Big Cat]

I pledged to refute it once we picked terms. We haven't yet. I've waited.

Pick away. Why are you waiting for me?

[BringBackFergy]

So this thread is about: Defense pre-Rex, Defense post-Rex, Tyrod, Roman, Rob Ryan, Marrone/Schwartz, and (evidently), who has the biggest dick on TBD. Cool.

[Green Lightning]

So this thread is about: Defense pre-Rex, Defense post-Rex, Tyrod, Roman, Rob Ryan, Marrone/Schwartz, and (evidently), who has the biggest dick on TBD. Cool.

Well put.

[FireChan]

Pick away. Why are you waiting for me?

Because until you accept terms, you'll hand wave. I'm not putting in work you'll disresgard.

So this thread is about: Defense pre-Rex, Defense post-Rex, Tyrod, Roman, Rob Ryan, Marrone/Schwartz, and (evidently), who has the biggest dick on TBD. Cool.

Me.

[The Big Cat]

Because until you accept terms, you'll hand wave. I'm not putting in work you'll disresgard.

 

Me.

It's my fault I guess. Sorry to be the barrier between you and your first attempt at analyzing something other than the posters here.

[FireChan]

It's my fault I guess. Sorry to be the barrier between you and your first attempt at analyzing something other than the posters here.

You aren't anything but an enigma, and a fun one at that.

[John from Riverside]

So this thread is about: Defense pre-Rex, Defense post-Rex, Tyrod, Roman, Rob Ryan, Marrone/Schwartz, and (evidently), who has the biggest dick on TBD. Cool.

I do love your knack for breaking things down to its most basic.......

 

[Nanker]

Yes it does....if the defense was 2nd last year we would have made the playoffs....

I think a lot of 3 and Outs last year made our Defense look a lot worse than it probably would have had we made more first downs and kept offensive drives alive. I look forward to the Offensive side of the ball improving a lot, and with it a better D will result.

 

You can't keep the D on the field for more than half the game and expect them to dominate - especially when one of your star players falls victim to his own mind games and is essentially playing with himself.

The Bills won only three games where they had a worse TOP than their opponent.

Games - Opponent's TOP - Bills' Outcome

Colts - 29:04 - Win

NE* - 29:57 - Loss

Fish - 31:53 - Win

Jints - 30:33 - Loss

Thumbtacks - 24:29 - Win

Sin-Sin - 30:00 - Loss

London - 31:32 - Loss

Fish 2 - 28.47 - Win

J-E-S-T-S - 33.16 - Win

NE2** - 32:55 - Loss

Chefs - 30:32 - Loss

Houseton - 31:53 - Win

Filly - 35:02 - Loss

Sunburns - 30:56 - Loss

Cowpokes - 28:30 - Win

J-E-S-T-S 2 - 20:47 - Win

[QB Bills]

 

"Yeah but Peyton Manning 2015" is the exact same as "yeah but Trent Dilfer 2000." They're exceptions to the rule and you know it.

 

 

Tyrod Taylor was an above average QB in efficiency only.

 

Sorry, but he did not produce the volume of work needed to say he's in the top-half of the league. And that was objectively because he was hidden in Roman's scheme.

 

He was not a feature of the Bills offense.

 

I don't for a second think he won't improve. I don't know where you got that from.

 

I certainly don't believe it's a guarantee, though.

 

And I've been saying for months that QB and general offensive malaise cost the team more games in 2015 than the mediocre defense did. I shared a deep dive I did into long stretches of three and outs last year and how they, more than any other factor, were directly tied to losses.

He wasn't a feature on the bills offense? Lol...what?!?

 

So who was that guy tossing those beautiful deep balls all year and running for more yards than any bills QB ever last season?

 

How anyone can complain about how Tyrod played last year is beyond me. Just because the guy isn't Aaron Rodgers doesn't mean he's no good.

[4merper4mer]

I think a lot of 3 and Outs last year made our Defense look a lot worse than it probably would have had we made more first downs and kept offensive drives alive. I look forward to the Offensive side of the ball improving a lot, and with it a better D will result.

 

You can't keep the D on the field for more than half the game and expect them to dominate - especially when one of your star players falls victim to his own mind games and is essentially playing with himself.

The Bills won only three games where they had a worse TOP than their opponent.

Games - Opponent's TOP - Bills' Outcome

Colts - 29:04 - Win

NE* - 29:57 - Loss

Fish - 31:53 - Win

Jints - 30:33 - Loss

Thumbtacks - 24:29 - Win

Sin-Sin - 30:00 - Loss

London - 31:32 - Loss

Fish 2 - 28.47 - Win

J-E-S-T-S - 33.16 - Win

NE2** - 32:55 - Loss

Chefs - 30:32 - Loss

Houseton - 31:53 - Win

Filly - 35:02 - Loss

Sunburns - 30:56 - Loss

Cowpokes - 28:30 - Win

J-E-S-T-S 2 - 20:47 - Win

Isn't from 28 to 32 basically a wash? If so:

Thumbtacks - 24:29 - Win

J-E-S-T-S - 33.16 - Win

NE2** - 32:55 - Loss

Filly - 35:02 - Loss

J-E-S-T-S 2 - 20:47 - Win

That leaves us 2-0 in games with low TOP and 1-2 in games where we held the ball longer. Doesn't this refute the point you're making as it relates to the 2015 season for the Bills?

Anyone with eyes equalling or surpassing the number possessed by Carl Grimes should have been able to see that the defense sucked last year. If you can't see that then you are denying reality.

If you want to find reasons to think they'll be good in 2016 I'm all ears. For example many are blaming the most talented player we had or a 2nd year MLB or injury numbers made to sound like they were somehow way out of line with what had happened in the past. Some are pointing out that we played well in the last 2 games, which we did....against Kellen Moore and a wind hampered Ryan Fitzpatrick. I just want to hear something that I can actually believe that indicates that the whole fiasco either wasn't caused by a buffoon of a head coach locked into an antiquated system or that a reformed head coach will be more flexible in 2016 or anything else that actually makes any sort of sense at all.

"It's Tyrod Taylor's fault that we went from 1st to 31st in sacks" does not make a whole lot of sense to me.

We had a solid defense in 2014. I don't think anyone would argue with that statement. When we have a solid defense again, what year will it be?....how many of the 11 2014 starters will remain?.....how much salary cap potential will have been lost in replacing defensive player that we might have been able to keep if Rex wasn't locked into a singular set of thoughts? Convince me that this is not a total re-build of the 2014 defense with the possible exception of Gilmore and Hughes. I'll even give you Darby as an incumbent because he would have been a good pick regardless of coach. That's what I see: Rex taking a very solid 2014 defense and needing to replace 8 of the 11 starters to get it back to a level at least somewhat below where it started. I do not blame Tyrod Taylor for any of that.

Edited March 26, 2016 by 4merper4mer

[BarleyNY]

Doesn't the defense getting themselves off the field and preventing opposing offenses from having sustained drives matter precisely as much as the Bills offense sustaining drives (if not more)? Last season the Bills offense improved from the previous season and the defense got worse from the previous season. Also, I agree that 28-32 minutes TOP is basically a wash.

Edited March 26, 2016 by BarleyNY

[YattaOkasan]

 

Isn't from 28 to 32 basically a wash? If so:

Thumbtacks - 24:29 - Win

J-E-S-T-S - 33.16 - Win

NE2** - 32:55 - Loss

Filly - 35:02 - Loss

J-E-S-T-S 2 - 20:47 - Win

That leaves us 2-0 in games with low TOP and 1-2 in games where we held the ball longer. Doesn't this refute the point you're making as it relates to the 2015 season for the Bills?

 

You are reading this backwards (I did too initially). That is the Opponents TOP. So we are 2-0 with opponents low TOP and 1-2 with opponents high TOP.

[4merper4mer]

You are reading this backwards (I did too initially). That is the Opponents TOP. So we are 2-0 with opponents low TOP and 1-2 with opponents high TOP.

Thanks. I did miss that.

[The Big Cat]

He wasn't a feature on the bills offense? Lol...what?!?

 

So who was that guy tossing those beautiful deep balls all year and running for more yards than any bills QB ever last season?

 

How anyone can complain about how Tyrod played last year is beyond me. Just because the guy isn't Aaron Rodgers doesn't mean he's no good.

He was not a feature. This is objective.

 

As a team the Bills finished 31st in pass attempts per game and 2nd in rush attempts per game.

 

If you read and understood the many posts here and elsewhere from many different people, then TT's limitations shouldn't be "beyond" you.

 

He could be a top 15 may be top 10 QB but he simply is not yet.

 

You aren't anything but an enigma, and a fun one at that.

At least I actually talk about football. Edited March 26, 2016 by The Big Cat

[FireChan]

2014 games

 

DET - Bills offense gets 2 first downs in it's first 5 drives. Bills defense forces 3 punts, an interception, and allow 1 TD. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

1st NE game - Bills offense gets 1 first down in its first 4 drives, including throwing the interception on their own 26. Bills defense allows 1 TD in NE's first 5 drives, notably after the interception in poor field position. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

MIN - Bills offense run 20 plays in their first 4 drives, including 2 fumbles. Bills defense 2 punts and 2 interceptions, and allow one field goal in that time. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

NYJ - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs after Bills defense forces 2 interceptions. Bills defense responds by forcing third interception. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

KC - Bills offense gets 1 first down in 3 straight drives. Bills defense allows 1 FG, 2 punts and forces a fumble. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

Miami - Bills offense gets 2 first downs in 5 straight drives. Bills defense allows 1 TD and 1 FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

NYJ - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

CLE - Bills offense runs 4 plays and punts twice, throws an interception after 1 first down, goes 3 and out twice, misses a FG after gaining 1 first down and then throws an interception after 3 plays.. Bills defense allows 1 FG, forces 4 punts, and forces an interception. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

DEN - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 TD and force a fumble. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

GB - Bills offense has a 5 play drive ending in a punt, followed by back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense forces a 4 play punt, 2 3 and outs, and allows a FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

OAK - Bills offense throws a pick after 6 plays and has 5 straight 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 TD, 1 FG and forces 4 3 and outs. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

 

 

Need I go on? Good defenses get off the field. When they do, you win more games.

Edited March 26, 2016 by FireChan

[Dorkington]

We need a minimum two defensive starters out of this draft, and at least one of them to be probowl caliber, I'm thinking... but all the skill in the world won't matter if the schemes suck, so we'll see what the Ryan brothers draw up.

 

I'm not expecting a winning record this year, unfortunately.

[The Big Cat]

2014 games

 

DET - Bills offense gets 2 first downs in it's first 5 drives. Bills defense forces 3 punts, an interception, and allow 1 TD. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

1st NE game - Bills offense gets 1 first down in its first 4 drives, including throwing the interception on their own 26. Bills defense allows 1 TD in NE's first 5 drives, notably after the interception in poor field position. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

MIN - Bills offense run 20 plays in their first 4 drives, including 2 fumbles. Bills defense 2 punts and 2 interceptions, and allow one field goal in that time. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

NYJ - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs after Bills defense forces 2 interceptions. Bills defense responds by forcing third interception. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

KC - Bills offense gets 1 first down in 3 straight drives. Bills defense allows 1 FG, 2 punts and forces a fumble. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

Miami - Bills offense gets 2 first downs in 5 straight drives. Bills defense allows 1 TD and 1 FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

NYJ - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

CLE - Bills offense runs 4 plays and punts twice, throws an interception after 1 first down, goes 3 and out twice, misses a FG after gaining 1 first down and then throws an interception after 3 plays.. Bills defense allows 1 FG, forces 4 punts, and forces an interception. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

DEN - Bills offense has back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 TD and force a fumble. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

GB - Bills offense has a 5 play drive ending in a punt, followed by back to back 3 and outs. Bills defense forces a 4 play punt, 2 3 and outs, and allows a FG. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

OAK - Bills offense throws a pick after 6 plays and has 5 straight 3 and outs. Bills defense allows 1 TD, 1 FG and forces 4 3 and outs. Not 3 80 yard TD drives, like the Redskins game or the Bengals game.

 

 

 

Need I go on? Good defenses get off the field. When they do, you win more games.

Be still my heart.

 

At first blush the severity of these droughts don't seem comparable. I'll do a side by side. We'll see.

[Bill from NYC]

If you are true to your convictions nobody else on the board should be able to sway you.

Yes John but how many of us know enough about anything that we should completely ignore the views of others? My views have been changed based on things I read on this board.

 

It wasn't really so long ago that the keys to winning football games were to run the ball successfully, and prevent your opponent from doing the same. If I held steadfast to my views I would still believe this, and those days are long gone.

 

I didn't think getting McCoy was such a bad idea until I read some views here and was honest with myself. Giving him a new, fat contract was a very, very bad move by Whaley.

 

And btw, I expect Whaley and Rex to be gone before the 2017 season.

[3rdand12]

Might as well dredge up field position and ST play too. Between seasons 14 - 15?

there was a noticeable difference in the quality of play. I am going to get all statted up. But if you guys are going to go at...

 

3 facets correct?

Yes John but how many of us know enough about anything that we should completely ignore the views of others? My views have been changed based on things I read on this board.

It wasn't really so long ago that the keys to winning football games were to run the ball successfully, and prevent your opponent from doing the same. If I held steadfast to my views I would still believe this, and those days are long gone.

I didn't think getting McCoy was such a bad idea until I read some views here and was honest with myself. Giving him a new, fat contract was a very, very bad move by Whaley.

And btw, I expect Whaley and Rex to be gone before the 2017 season.

The break will do you well.

 

I took a long hiatus from the Bills and I am better for it now.

Don't take it nearly as seriously as once did.

: )

[The Big Cat]

The severity of the droughts?

 

Jesus your really reaching. But it's funny, keep going.

If I am the numbers will show it.

[4merper4mer]

If I am the numbers will show it.

 

 

I want to make sure I understand something. Are you saying the Orton offense was better than the Taylor offense?

[FireChan]

 

 

I want to make sure I understand something. Are you saying the Orton offense was better than the Taylor offense?

He thinks 2 3 and outs are the difference between a good defense and a bad one.

[4merper4mer]

He thinks 2 3 and outs are the difference between a good defense and a bad one.

 

 

And going from 1st to 31st to sacks is Tyrod Taylor's fault I suppose. 1st to 31st. It is incredibly hard to believe that something like that could ever happen to any team.

 

Comparing them to 2014's Orton O should be interesting but I also wonder how many 3 and outs Manning and Osweiler put up.