Crashing and burning and Bill

[Beef Jerky]

Bills got rid of that dead weight dirtbag Mario and the team wil be healthy. Most players getting into the system for the second yead, Rob Ryan is a good defensive coach, the draft is defensive heavy especially at positions of need. The arrow is only pointing up and anyone that disagrees just doesnt realize what I said.

[FireChan]

Bills got rid of that dead weight dirtbag Mario and the team wil be healthy. Most players getting into the system for the second yead, Rob Ryan is a good defensive coach, the draft is defensive heavy especially at positions of need. The arrow is only pointing up and anyone that disagrees just doesnt realize what I said.

The arrow is pointing up because we dropped so far.

[The Big Cat]

I think his argument is the 3 and outs came at worse times in 2015 then in 2014.

 

I don't know. I have no idea what he is arguing anymore.

The argument is that the offense in 2015 had long stretches of games that were more detrimental to losses than the defense ever was.

 

FireChan says it was no worse than in 2014, I guess? I don't believe it's true. I also understand the assertion that the 2014 was more capable of overcoming a poor offense is a foregone conclusion.

 

But I don't believe the 2014 offense ever demanded as much.

 

That's the discrepancy in numbers that a side by side will show, I think.

[FireChan]

The argument is that the offense in 2015 had long stretches of games that were more detrimental to losses than the defense ever was.

 

FireChan says it was no worse than in 2014, I guess? I don't believe it's true. I also understand the assertion that the 2014 was more capable of overcoming a poor offense is a foregone conclusion.

 

But I don't believe the 2014 offense ever demanded as much.

 

That's the discrepancy in numbers that a side by side will show, I think.

You may want to reflect on the numbers you used earlier, if that's the case.

 

I don't know how anyone can say the offense having one 3 and out contributed more to a loss than allowing an 80 yard TD drive.

[The Big Cat]

You may want to reflect on the numbers you used earlier, if that's the case.

 

I don't know how anyone can say the offense having one 3 and out contributed more to a loss than allowing an 80 yard TD drive.

 

Well, nobody's saying that.

[John from Riverside]

 

Well, nobody's saying that.

I am off in saying that a big part of this is expectations of each of these units?

 

2014 O.....couldnt seem to get out its own way

2014 D.......dominate.....continued to give O chances over and over and voer

 

2015 O......had stretches of 3rd and outs which were frustration....yet still scored points and didnt settle for FG's......led the league in rushing.....didnt turn the ball over

 

2015 D......couldnt seem to stop people most of the time when it mattered.....gave up a lot of 3rd down conversions.....couldnt stop anybody when it mattered

 

Am I wrong?

[FireChan]

 

Well, nobody's saying that.

 

By virtue of referencing TD's scored after singular 3 and outs, you sorta are. Which is why I previously wanted to hammer out terms before delving into an analysis. Your analysis is cursory and full of contradictions. In the Redskins game off the top of my head, they scored on their opening drive. How does the offense having a three and out after that drive contribute to those 7 points?

 

 

The Big Cat, on 16 Feb 2016 - 11:57 PM, said:

 

 

First Pats* game: following the opening drive TD, 5 consecutive drives without a first down, during which time the Pats* scored three touch downs

 

NYG: failed to get a first down on seven of the first NINE drives, during which time NYG scored 17 points

 

CIN: only 10 drives in the entire game, failed to get a first in 5 of them, including 4 consecutive drives in the first half, during which time CIN scored 17 points

 

JAX: if you still need details for how the offense was responsible for this loss, I can't help you.

 

PATS2: three consecutive three and outs in the second half, followed by a four and out, during which time Pats* scored 10 points.

 

WAS: Start the game with four consecutive non-scoring drives, including two consecutive three and outs, during which time WAS scored 21 points.

 

So, you'll have to remind me again, on what basis you're refuting my claim that stringing together three and outs had a huge impact on losses this year,

[Estro]

I think the Bills have all the makings to be a perfectly average team.

 

Average coach, average qb. All the makings of a 7 to 8 win team. The only player in the draft with the ability to change this teams fortune was Carson Wentz and since we have no shot at him the wait will continue.

 

Trade the Titans our 1st and 3rd round pick this year. 1st round pick in 2017, Stephon Gilmore, and Robert Woods for the 1st pick. Draft Wentz. Get a future star QB , take your lumps in 2016 and finally feel what it's like to have a better QB than your opponent on most Sundays moving on.

[John from Riverside]

I think the Bills have all the makings to be a perfectly average team.

 

Average coach, average qb. All the makings of a 7 to 8 win team. The only player in the draft with the ability to change this teams fortune was Carson Wentz and since we have no shot at him the wait will continue.

 

Trade the Titans our 1st and 3rd round pick this year. 1st round pick in 2017, Stephon Gilmore, and Robert Woods for the 1st pick. Draft Wentz. Get a future star QB , take your lumps in 2016 and finally feel what it's like to have a better QB than your opponent on most Sundays moving on.

If Tyrod makes the next step....all of your estimates are off

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Bill in NYC posted a thread a few days ago and I do not want to disrupt it. I do however feel that a sidetrack topic that got going in there is worthy of discussion. i do not want to take away from Bill's main topic though.....and I hope he posts game recaps when his heart desires without feeling obligated to do all 16.

 

The sidetrack topic was whether the Bills defense is destined to "crash and burn" in 2016. Without putting words in Bill's mouth, I think he feels like it will. Some others agree. Some others disagree.

 

Personally I don't agree with either group technically.

 

I think it is pretty clear that the Bills defense crashed in 2015. The most likely scenario is that it will do the burning in 2016. So while I agree with the crash and burn theory, i think we are already half way there. it is 100% certain that we crashed in 2015. That is clear. Some people argue about the reasons, which is hard to fathom, but whatever. I think the reason is clear and he hired to brother to double down.

 

What I'm wondering about is the burning. With the fuselage laying on the ground in pieces, does anyone think there is a way to put it all back together in 2016 and have something functional? In other words...no burning. If so, how?

 

I have hard time believing they will be worse than last yr . They might not be the 2000 Ravens but feel we will be better on defense do to certain distractions and non - fits gone and new replacements coming in.

[4merper4mer]

 

I have hard time believing they will be worse than last yr . They might not be the 2000 Ravens but feel we will be better on defense do to certain distractions and non - fits gone and new replacements coming in.

 

 

So you're saying Rex crashed and burned the defense all in one year and will rebuild it in year two? I hope so but even Rex's fully built fully pregnant Jets defenses sucked for a long long time since they were last good so it doesn't look good does it?

[John from Riverside]

 

 

So you're saying Rex crashed and burned the defense all in one year and will rebuild it in year two? I hope so but even Rex's fully built fully pregnant Jets defenses sucked for a long long time since they were last good so it doesn't look good does it?

Actually...it is difficult to say what it looks like

 

That game against the jets at the end of the year man........the D actually IMPROVED towards the end of the year

[The Big Cat]

 

By virtue of referencing TD's scored after singular 3 and outs, you sorta are. Which is why I previously wanted to hammer out terms before delving into an analysis. Your analysis is cursory and full of contradictions. In the Redskins game off the top of my head, they scored on their opening drive. How does the offense having a three and out after that drive contribute to those 7 points?

 

 

The Big Cat, on 16 Feb 2016 - 11:57 PM, said:

 

You found a single example.

 

I'm sorta not.

[FireChan]

 

You found a single example.

 

I'm sorta not.

I found one because that's the one I knew for sure was incorrect. Fact check your own data points, please. If you "run the numbers," and include that 7 points, it will be incorrect.

 

If you blame the offense for a TD scored after a single 3 and out, you definitely are. I guarantee I'd find that at least 3 times in your "analysis."

Edited March 28, 2016 by FireChan

[The Big Cat]

I found one because that's the one I knew for sure was incorrect. Fact check your own data points, please. If you "run the numbers," and include that 7 points, it will be incorrect.

 

If you blame the offense for a TD scored after a single 3 and out, you definitely are. I guarantee I'd find that at least 3 times in your "analysis."

 

Go for it. Find all three.

[FireChan]

 

Go for it. Find all three.

Pats 1 - Bills offense goes TD, 3 and out. Bills defense forces a 3 and out after our TD, and allows a TD after our offense goes 3 and out. Ergo, you blame that 7 points on a single offensive 3 and out. That's #1.

 

Bengals - Bills offense goes TD, 3 and out. Bills defense forces a 3 and out after our TD, and allows a TD after our offense goes 3 and out. Ergo, you blame that 7 points on a single offensive 3 and out. That's #2.

 

Pats 2 - Bills offense opens the second half with a TD drive, 3 and out. Bills defense forces a 3 and out after our TD, and allows a TD after our offense goes 3 and out. Ergo, you blame that 7 points on a single offensive 3 and out. That's #3.

 

And he brings it home with 1 game to spare! That's how you win in 3 moves, folks.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

 

So you're saying Rex crashed and burned the defense all in one year and will rebuild it in year two? I hope so but even Rex's fully built fully pregnant Jets defenses sucked for a long long time since they were last good so it doesn't look good does it?

 

pretty much but I doubt they will be elite. Jets didn't finish well but I think losing key players didn't help. We shall see, I want Rex to succeed because I'm so sick of starting over, not Fan of his style but it's what we have right now. Really wish we could have gotten Bruce Arians in here. Have no idea who we should bring in next. If I was Pegs I would have paid Harbaugh 10 million a yr to coach here, 20 mil if necessary, instead of letting go to Michigan. Also like the HC from Western Michigan P J Fleck although he has limited NFL experience he has a knack of getting teams to perform;

 

 

"P.J. (Philip John) Fleck was announced as the 15th Head Coach in the 108 year history of the Western Michigan football program on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 to rebuild the program. Coach Fleck has received the reputation of being a program “turn around” coach by being under the tutelage of proven program builders including; Joe Novak (retired- Northern Illinois), Jerry Kill (Minnesota, Southern Illinois, Northern Illinois, Emporia State, Saginaw Valley State), Greg Schiano (Rutgers), and Jim Tressel (Youngstown State, Ohio St.). He is distinguished as one of two Head Coaches (along with Jim Harbaugh) currently in college football (FBS) that has played and coached in the NFL. "

 

 

http://www.wmubroncos.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=24292&SPID=1922&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4600&ATCLID=205835641&Q_SEASON=2015

[Gugny]

Unless TT makes a significant improvement, it really doesn't matter if the defense finishes 2nd or 20th.

 

A phucking Men.

[The Big Cat]

 

A phucking Men.

 

Resistance to this truth is baffling.

[FireChan]

 

Resistance to this truth is baffling.

Could anyone be more sure of their opinion after getting an argument destroyed than you? A"truth?" Please.