klos63 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) Seriously, why not have a 5min penalty box for first personal foul/unsportmanlike, or unnecessary roughness penalties with the 2nd infraction costing you 10 minutes and third game misconduct? Actually have a box and the infracting player must sit in it and cannot join their team until the time is done? Of course you still lose the 15 yards etc.. Think about it. Talib's facemask only cost Denver what 2 yards in the SB.. But it could have cost the other player his career.. They say they want to protect players.. Well then try something different. Tim- Not that rational reasons should be given to shoot this idea down, but you do realize 5 minutes is about the average time of a drive, so you could lose a top player on maybe a weak or questionable call for a full drive, maybe 2 or 3 if it's a 10 minute call? I know it's the offseason, but let's get back to the reality of what actually might occur. Example - Hughes goes to sack the QB ,gets a piece of his helmet, out for 5 minutes, chases RB out of bounds, gets a close call on late hit out of bounds, now we lose him for 10 more minutes. Defense on the field around 30 a game max - he's gone for 15 right now. Edited February 28, 2016 by klos63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Despite the profile of the Burfict/Adam Jones situation.......personal foul penalties aren't a major problem in the NFL so this idea would be trying to fix something that isn't broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalothruMyVeins Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Ok, #1, this is The Offseason, so these kinds of wild game alteration spitball-type threads are completely normal, and okay. If this is posted a day before we play NE in a week 17, with the winner making the playoffs and the loser sitting at home, than yes, this deserves to be panned. But right now, with the only other thread topics being endless combine threads, Mario Williams, Cordy Glenn, Incognito, and McCoy updates, this is certainly a welcome change of pace. Don't try to shame people into censoring content just because you disagree with this particular scenario. #2- this isn't even THAT far off base, as there is currently a proposal of a rules change where if a player gets hit with a second personal foul penalty, they get ejected from the game. So when you say: So a questionable personal foul or touching a QBs helmet or a late hit out of bounds that wasn't actually out of bounds and the defense could lose their best player? Brilliant! This is already happening, if it happens twice. So the (extremely unlikely) concept of a 5 minute penalty for first infraction, and 10 for a second, isn't exactly wildly out of bounds. It is bringing into the NFL a rule that another professional sports league, the NHL, already uses, so it's not that wild of an idea. However, I would change the rules slightly from what is stated. Since both leagues play 60 minute games, I think the penalty times can be kept the same. 2 minute penalty for first infraction, and then maybe 5 minute penalty for second, than thrown out after third. The penalty would be based on when the penalized player's side of the ball is on the field. The penalty ends when the other team scores a TD. One exception: if the penalty is called ON a scoring play. This keeps the other team from cheap-shotting your QB or scoring player, and avoiding the penalty, as the other team just scored. One cool wrinkle to this idea, if the other team's best defensive player is on the sidelines for 2:00 at the start of their drive, it would make sense to run a no-huddle, hurry-up offense to work the sidelines and keep that player on the sidelines as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) Unless it goes to playing short (10 men), I don't see this being a game changer. Assuming most of these penalties will be on the D, most teams sub in different players all game. So subbing for anyone to sit in a box won't have much of an impact. It certainly won't be a deterrent, if that is what it's supposed to be. Edited February 28, 2016 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Not to cause a ruckus... 1 & 25? Wouldn't that be like taking OJ's name off The Wall of Fame @ TheRalph? That heinous "personal foul episode" was 20 years after the fact. I don't get your point, but...Why should a personal foul amount to a freebie for the offending team? If the foul occurred at what would have been 3rd & 3 the penalty would make it 3rd and 18. That's the reason you flag a team, to penalize them. Why should an offense after committing a personal foul be given a 1st & 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I don't get your point, but...Why should a personal foul amount to a freebie for the offending team? If the foul occurred at what would have been 3rd & 3 the penalty would make it 3rd and 18. That's the reason you flag a team, to penalize them. Why should an offense after committing a personal foul be given a 1st & 10? Agree. I think some people are advocating a combination of yards penalty and the player sitting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I don't get your point, but...Why should a personal foul amount to a freebie for the offending team? If the foul occurred at what would have been 3rd & 3 the penalty would make it 3rd and 18. That's the reason you flag a team, to penalize them. Why should an offense after committing a personal foul be given a 1st & 10? The problem and point is the penalty happened after the play. It should have no bearing on the 10 yards for the new set of down... They are already being punished over 10% of the field. The whole game is predicated on field position... And 4 downs to get 10 yards. Implementing what you say would alter the game drastically. The game is almost already unwatchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 The problem and point is the penalty happened after the play. It should have no bearing on the 10 yards for the new set of down... They are already being punished over 10% of the field. The whole game is predicated on field position... And 4 downs to get 10 yards. Implementing what you say would alter the game drastically. The game is almost already unwatchable. It most definitely would not alter the game drastically because it happens 0-1 time/game. It's a freebie for the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 The problem is unlike Hockey which players play offense and defense (yes there are defense men and scoring specialists but they play on either side of arena) there are three groups of players in NFL and this foul could for example happen on FG blocking specialist or even a kicker grabbing someone and being put in penalty box. How do you measure amount of time player lost then? I agree there needs to more penalties for severe penalties (an example a DT stomping on another player) it has to be balanced against the fact that football is a fast game and there are times when a penalty offense is not intentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalothruMyVeins Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 The problem is unlike Hockey which players play offense and defense (yes there are defense men and scoring specialists but they play on either side of arena) there are three groups of players in NFL and this foul could for example happen on FG blocking specialist or even a kicker grabbing someone and being put in penalty box. How do you measure amount of time player lost then? I agree there needs to more penalties for severe penalties (an example a DT stomping on another player) it has to be balanced against the fact that football is a fast game and there are times when a penalty offense is not intentional. Good point, I didn't think about if it were to happen on special teams. A penalty for 2 minutes of special team work would almost certainly last the whole game, until the other team scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Another idea would be 1/2 game ejections. Talib play comes to mind here, where the play didn't warrant a typical ejection (although i think it should have, the refs didn't), in addition to the penalty, the player is ejected for 2 quarters of play or possibly 1 quarter. Don't think unethical players like Talib don't know exactly what they're doing when they facemask a guy getting close to the endzone. They know its a marginal penalty, in his case it was 2 measly yards for a cheap shot that could have easily paralyzed a guy. I like this thread. Gotta do something other than fines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Seriously, why not have a 5min penalty box for first personal foul/unsportmanlike, or unnecessary roughness penalties with the 2nd infraction costing you 10 minutes and third game misconduct? Actually have a box and the infracting player must sit in it and cannot join their team until the time is done? Of course you still lose the 15 yards etc.. Think about it. Talib's facemask only cost Denver what 2 yards in the SB.. But it could have cost the other player his career.. They say they want to protect players.. Well then try something different. Tim- because being shorthanded would make it to easy for the offense or defense, this aint hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 #2- this isn't even THAT far off base, as there is currently a proposal of a rules change where if a player gets hit with a second personal foul penalty, they get ejected from the game. So when you say: This is already happening, if it happens twice. So the (extremely unlikely) concept of a 5 minute penalty for first infraction, and 10 for a second, isn't exactly wildly out of bounds. It is bringing into the NFL a rule that another professional sports league, the NHL, already uses, so it's not that wild of an idea. Yeah, I don't know if I want the NFL looking at a second rate league like the NHL for ideas. However, I would change the rules slightly from what is stated. Since both leagues play 60 minute games, I think the penalty times can be kept the same. 2 minute penalty for first infraction, and then maybe 5 minute penalty for second, than thrown out after third. The penalty would be based on when the penalized player's side of the ball is on the field. The penalty ends when the other team scores a TD. One exception: if the penalty is called ON a scoring play. This keeps the other team from cheap-shotting your QB or scoring player, and avoiding the penalty, as the other team just scored. This must be a hockey thing, because this isn't even an issue in the NFL. Furthermore, if you are concerned this behavior could become prevalent, then you might to rethink the whole penalty box scenario. One cool wrinkle to this idea, if the other team's best defensive player is on the sidelines for 2:00 at the start of their drive, it would make sense to run a no-huddle, hurry-up offense to work the sidelines and keep that player on the sidelines as much as possible. Are you trying to protect the players, or come up with new ways to generate more scoring opportunities? If he NFL wants to change the rule regarding personal fouls, I think the NFL needs to look at the college ranks for ideas. The Targeting rule in college is automatically review-able. Why not make Personal fouls review-able in the NFL? Have a replay official give the play a look. If the foul was questionable/unintentional (Jerry Hughes slapping a teammates helmet), the team still gets assessed 15 yards, but the player is allowed back in the game. If it looks like the foul was flagrant/intentional (Talibs facemask), then the replay official can eject the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 it wouldn't be too difficult to figure out the criteria for the rule. Not on every PF call, but ones like Talib, and Amendola with his helmet to the chest hit on the punt inside the 5. The cost is insignificant to the offending team, so those would be the plays that would fall under the rule. If the normal 15 yard penalty can be enforced, then that is what the call will be. There could be other scenarios added in, but it wouldn't be earth shattering to put something like this together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 If we're going to have a penalty box why don't we allow fighting and players have to be in the box for 5 minutes? What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Are they also going to allow fights and have OT be 7 on 7? I can only see it for particularly violent penalties: roughing the passer, unnecessary roughness or personal fouls. Excellent. Even more opportunity for refs to make judgement calls based on presumed intent. I'm sure that'll be a huge benefit to the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Are they also going to allow fights and have OT be 7 on 7? and if tied at the end of OT have a FG "shootout" to determine the winner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 and if tied at the end of OT have a FG "shootout" to determine the winner... We could incorporate some NBA in here too. Maybe personal fouls could result in a one-point free kick opportunity from the LOS. Two point kick if you're in the bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) What would a penalty box do? It's not like hockey where offense turns to defense so quick and sides change rapidly. So if a defensive player gets a penalty and has to sit in the penalty box for 5 minutes while his offense is on the field, what's the point in having this? Personally I like the soccer approach to this but with a slight alteration. 2 "yellow cards" for unsportsmanlike conduct in a season and you're suspended for the season. No pay, no money, no check. Nada. Edited February 29, 2016 by QuoteTheRaven83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 If we're going to have a penalty box why don't we allow fighting and players have to be in the box for 5 minutes? What do you think? and if tied at the end of OT have a FG "shootout" to determine the winner... Only if moderators are not penalized for high sticking you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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