McCoy's nightclub fight and the ongoing investigation

[Maury Ballstein]

 

 

Why would I? I mean, who cares? This is just stuff we talk about on TBD.

 

Will you cry when they release EJ? Of course not.

 

Oh, wait....

Getting emotional huh ? Seems like you're way all in anti shady here. Just an observation.

[Nanker]

Sure is taking a long time for the cops to get their collective stories together.

[Mr. WEO]

 

Money grab.

 

I meant the video JohnC provided.

 

The Johnny LaGoomba ("the third"), Esq. video?

 

 

Are you truly missing the point this completely? Let me try to spell it out point by point.

1. There were 3 off-duty police officers in the bar.

2. One was on the ground, allegedly getting a "vicious unprovoked" mob beat-down with intent to cause serious injury, raising it to the level of aggravated assault

3. Neither the 2nd or 3rd officer, with all their police training, felt the need to call for backup at this point. If I were a defense lawyer, I would raise the question "if an aggravated assault were in progress before your eyes, why didn't you call for backup? Why didn't you call for 911?" One answer would be "because it didn't look like an aggrevated assault to their trained eyes at the time"

4. The 2nd officer waded in to try to break up the fight. Wading in to a serious situation before calling for backup or ensuring it will be called goes against police training. He then got clocked with a bottle.

5. The 3rd officer still didn't recognize the situation as a mob beat-down with intent to cause serious injury, raising it to the level of aggrevated assault. If I were a defense lawyer, I would raise the same question as point 3 again.

6. The referees er, bouncers, blow the whistle and break up the pile and throw both parties out

7. At this point, the cops have a moment to assess their injuries. According to FOP President John McNesby, "the officers were severely injured. I’m not talking about scratches and contusions. I’m talking about broken bones, eye sockets, fractured skulls, and it’s really — it’s a long road to recovery for them and hopefully they’ll be able to return to work.” Police officers have training about how to assess injuries for severity and how to respond: you call for medics. But they don't do this. Again the question: why didn't you? and one answer would be "because they didn't seem that serious"

 

None of this prevents a retrospective reevaluation of the fight and the injuries and charges to be filed. But opens a legitimate question about how 2 trained observers viewed the situation in real time.

 

Do you really think that the guy on the ground was contemplating what charges his beating represented---or that their failure to "call 911" (really, do you think cops do this?) was because they didn't think this was a crime? Then why did they think it was a crime later? Maybe the cops had something to hide at the scene and decided later they didn't care and were going to file charges.

 

Are you really saying that the injuries were not that serious? Why did the cops go to the hospital if they weren't really injured?

 

I think the real time assessment by the cops is not the issue keeping the Da from having arrested yet, nor will the jury really think much of it. They will see the video, the photos of the injuries (they no doubt exist) and the medical records and make their own conclusions as to whether serious injury (and intent to cause) occurred.

[YoloinOhio]

Sure is taking a long time for the cops to get their collective stories together.

Mark Schwarz said on ESPN radio that he thinks the delay is trying to find competent eyewitnesses who have matching stories from 2:45 am in a bar, and who were willing to identify themselves. Edited February 18, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[K-9]

I think the delay is nothing more than negotiations occurring behind the scenes. Formal charges are a game changer for McCoy vis a vis NFL disciplinary actions. The full court press is on for the cops to agree to not press charges. They just have to find a number they are happy with.

[Mr. WEO]

I think the delay is nothing more than negotiations occurring behind the scenes. Formal charges are a game changer for McCoy vis a vis NFL disciplinary actions. The full court press is on for the cops to agree to not press charges. They just have to find a number they are happy with.

 

 

Number of what?

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

 

 

Then why did the cops press charges?

 

What in the video is the weak part for the DA?

The cops pressed charges because two of their boys in blue got the worse end of it. From a political standpoint, there's no way they just let it go. The union would be calling for the chief's head and the mayor got to score some of the easiest political points of his career.

 

Then then get to hand it off the the DA, say "good luck" and know that whatever outcome they get the glory if it suceeds and someone to blame if it doesn't.

 

The DA, on the other hand, is not quite so lucky. And if after two weeks, no reliable witnesses are willing to come forward they'll either drop it or offer a shockingly reasonable plea.

[jimmy10]

 

 

Number of what?

 

Number of pages the TSW thread has to get to before they can have closure.

[K-9]

Number of what?

Dollars.

 

But you knew that.

[hondo in seattle]

 

Are you truly missing the point this completely? Let me try to spell it out point by point.

1. There were 3 off-duty police officers in the bar.

2. One was on the ground, allegedly getting a "vicious unprovoked" mob beat-down with intent to cause serious injury, raising it to the level of aggravated assault

3. Neither the 2nd or 3rd officer, with all their police training, felt the need to call for backup at this point. If I were a defense lawyer, I would raise the question "if an aggravated assault were in progress before your eyes, why didn't you call for backup? Why didn't you call for 911?" One answer would be "because it didn't look like an aggrevated assault to their trained eyes at the time"

4. The 2nd officer waded in to try to break up the fight. Wading in to a serious situation before calling for backup or ensuring it will be called goes against police training. He then got clocked with a bottle.

5. The 3rd officer still didn't recognize the situation as a mob beat-down with intent to cause serious injury, raising it to the level of aggrevated assault. If I were a defense lawyer, I would raise the same question as point 3 again.

6. The referees er, bouncers, blow the whistle and break up the pile and throw both parties out

7. At this point, the cops have a moment to assess their injuries. According to FOP President John McNesby, "the officers were severely injured. I’m not talking about scratches and contusions. I’m talking about broken bones, eye sockets, fractured skulls, and it’s really — it’s a long road to recovery for them and hopefully they’ll be able to return to work.” Police officers have training about how to assess injuries for severity and how to respond: you call for medics. But they don't do this. Again the question: why didn't you? and one answer would be "because they didn't seem that serious"

 

None of this prevents a retrospective reevaluation of the fight and the injuries and charges to be filed. But opens a legitimate question about how 2 trained observers viewed the situation in real time.

 

 

Whether the off-duty cops at the scene assessed it as aggravated assault or not is irrelevant. Maybe they didn't have a good view of the beat down. Maybe they were too drunk to assess the situation clearly. It doesn't really matter how they - correctly or incorrectly - evaluated the situation. What matters is what actually happened. The police and DA are apparently trying to determine that from witness statements and video.

 

Imagine two cops at a play. One of the actors shoots another. The cops think it's all part of the play. They don't think a crime was committed. But it turns out one actor really did shoot the other. An incorrect real-time assessment by law enforcement doesn't preclude a fair application of the law later on.

[Mr. WEO]

The cops pressed charges because two of their boys in blue got the worse end of it. From a political standpoint, there's no way they just let it go. The union would be calling for the chief's head and the mayor got to score some of the easiest political points of his career.

 

Then then get to hand it off the the DA, say "good luck" and know that whatever outcome they get the glory if it suceeds and someone to blame if it doesn't.

 

The DA, on the other hand, is not quite so lucky. And if after two weeks, no reliable witnesses are willing to come forward they'll either drop it or offer a shockingly reasonable plea.

 

I agree with the bolded part. Not sure what a shockingly reasonable plea is. Most here seem to agree it would be misdemeanor assault.

 

Dollars.

 

But you knew that.

 

Just wanted to confirm you are saying that the DA is withholding arrest warrants until he finds out how much money it will take to buy the cops off during an ongoing criminal investigation.

[SF Bills Fan]

Dollars.

But you knew that.

Could be doughnuts since it is cops.

[K-9]

Just wanted to confirm you are saying that the DA is withholding arrest warrants until he finds out how much money it will take to buy the cops off during an ongoing criminal investigation.

No. The DA is allowing time for the two sides to negotiate a settlement. Happens all the time.

 

But you knew that, too.

Could be doughnuts since it is cops.

This made me laugh.

[Doc]

The Johnny LaGoomba ("the third"), Esq. video?

 

Yup. And if Johnny LaGoomba (and I) could come up with those inconsistencies, Krasner obviously knows them as well and is saying to the DA "good luck charging Shady with a felony when the cops didn't even think it was a crime, much less aggravated assault."

 

Whether the off-duty cops at the scene assessed it as aggravated assault or not is irrelevant. Maybe they didn't have a good view of the beat down. Maybe they were too drunk to assess the situation clearly. It doesn't really matter how they - correctly or incorrectly - evaluated the situation. What matters is what actually happened. The police and DA are apparently trying to determine that from witness statements and video.

 

Imagine two cops at a play. One of the actors shoots another. The cops think it's all part of the play. They don't think a crime was committed. But it turns out one actor really did shoot the other. An incorrect real-time assessment by law enforcement doesn't preclude a fair application of the law later on.

 

They were he ones being beaten down, hondo. Two of them had the best view in the house and the 3rd should have been watching it unfold as well. And as I said above, they didn't even think it was a crime, period, until hours later. That's incompetence at best and criminal (did they have something to hide by waiting to report it until all the witnesses were gone?) at worst.

 

Mark Schwarz said on ESPN radio that he thinks the delay is trying to find competent eyewitnesses who have matching stories from 2:45 am in a bar, and who were willing to identify themselves.

 

It would have been hard even at the time. Never mind reporting it after everyone had gone home.

[JohnC]

 

I agree with the bolded part. Not sure what a shockingly reasonable plea is. Most here seem to agree it would be misdemeanor assault.

 

 

Just wanted to confirm you are saying that the DA is withholding arrest warrants until he finds out how much money it will take to buy the cops off during an ongoing criminal investigation.

There is nothing unusual about a settlement worked out between the parties before the DA makes a judgment in this case. If both parties are satisfied with a negotiated outcome it certainly would be a situation that the DA's office prefers over a legal battle where some of the facts of the case are muddled.

 

Let's put things in context and give it some perspective. This is a bar fight/brawl or however you want to categorize the fracas. It's not a rare occurrence and it has little impact on the citizens other than the combatants. The DA's office certainly doesn't want to dedicate their limited resources to a non-priority case.

 

In my view maybe a simple assault charge for McCoy and the crew and some restitution for the injured parties.

 

More and more I am getting the sense (opinion) that the cops weren't purely angels in this engagement. What I find very troubling/questionable is how they handled the aftermath. They left the scene instead of calling the authorities. That post behavior opens up a lot of questions.

[aristocrat]

There is nothing unusual about a settlement worked out between the parties before the DA makes a judgment in this case. If both parties are satisfied with a negotiated outcome it certainly would be a situation that the DA's office prefers over a legal battle where some of the facts of the case are muddled.

 

Let's put things in context and give it some perspective. This is a bar fight/brawl or however you want to categorize the fracas. It's not a rare occurrence and it has little impact on the citizens other than the combatants. The DA's office certainly doesn't want to dedicate their limited resources to a non-priority case.

 

In my view maybe a simple assault charge for McCoy and the crew and some restitution for the injured parties.

 

More and more I am getting the sense (opinion) that the cops weren't purely angels in this engagement. What I find very troubling/questionable is how they handled the aftermath. They left the scene instead of calling the authorities. That post behavior opens up a lot of questions.

 

Yup, drinking til 3am and then driving to the hospital. Let the da go and prosecute real criminals instead of spending time and resources on a stupid fight. Get shady to donate some money to a charity and some good actually comes out of this.

[Maury Ballstein]

Yup, drinking til 3am and then driving to the hospital. Let the da go and prosecute real criminals instead of spending time and resources on a stupid fight. Get shady to donate some money to a charity and some good actually comes out of this.

All of this. Wrap it up B.

[Mr. WEO]

 

Yup. And if Johnny LaGoomba (and I) could come up with those inconsistencies, Krasner obviously knows them as well and is saying to the DA "good luck charging Shady with a felony when the cops didn't even think it was a crime, much less aggravated assault."

 

 

They were he ones being beaten down, hondo. Two of them had the best view in the house and the 3rd should have been watching it unfold as well. And as I said above, they didn't even think it was a crime, period, until hours later. That's incompetence at best and criminal (did they have something to hide by waiting to report it until all the witnesses were gone?) at worst.

 

 

It would have been hard even at the time. Never mind reporting it after everyone had gone home.

 

I don't get this point about whether the cops thought it was a crime. The jury doesn't need the cops thoughts about what charges the police should file while the fight was going on--they filed charges ultimately. And a jury wouldn't need to really think too much about why the cops didn't call for backup. They will see the physical evidence and hear testimony form the cops and the perps (if they testify). If the defense is "why didn't the cops call for backup", I don't see how they would beat the rap. Your (new) claim that they didn't know it was a crime til hours later has no weight. Sure they might be hiding something. But that may have nothing to do with why they took the beating, or whether aggravated assault took place.

 

Guy went to ground, video tape shows him getting punched and kicked by 4 pro athletes and medical records confirms the injuries. And you say the timing of the call to police makes this all go away?

 

You and agree he will likely get charged with misdemeanor assault.

No. The DA is allowing time for the two sides to negotiate a settlement. Happens all the time.

 

But you knew that, too.

 

This made me laugh.

 

DA can procede with case whether the sides want to settle or not. His office is not part of such a settlement. It would be difficult if he can't get the cops to testify, I agree. Unless he charges them too, as some here have mentioned.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

 

I agree with the bolded part. Not sure what a shockingly reasonable plea is. Most here seem to agree it would be misdemeanor assault.

 

Plead guilty without allocution and without admission of guilt, so Goodell has little to hang on him. Probation and a fine.

[JohnC]

 

I don't get this point about whether the cops thought it was a crime. The jury doesn't need the cops thoughts about what charges the police should file while the fight was going on--they filed charges ultimately. And a jury wouldn't need to really think too much about why the cops didn't call for backup. They will see the physical evidence and hear testimony form the cops and the perps (if they testify). If the defense is "why didn't the cops call for backup", I don't see how they would beat the rap. Your (new) claim that they didn't know it was a crime til hours later has no weight. Sure they might be hiding something. But that may have nothing to do with why they took the beating, or whether aggravated assault took place.

 

Guy went to ground, video tape shows him getting punched and kicked by 4 pro athletes and medical records confirms the injuries. And you say the timing of the call to police makes this all go away?

 

You and agree he will likely get charged with misdemeanor assault.

You better believe that the defense attorney/s are going to point out possible reasons why the police left the scene on that day without calling the police. The people on the jury are not prim academics who are going to mull over the technicalities of the law. They are going to take the view that this is a bar fight that got out of control and one side dominated the other. Philly citizens have an understanding that sometimes life in the city can be rough and tumble. They are not going to be overly impressed and give major deference to the fact that one party had badges and were not on official duty and were at a drinking and carousing establishment at three in the morning.

 

The DA's office knows that there were arse holes on both ends of the teeter totter. This is a case that screams for some settlement between the parties. Don't be too surprised if the off duty cops and especially the department are as eager for a settlement as the McCoy crew.

Edited February 18, 2016 by JohnC