Kelly the Dog Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I didn't like the hit and it was called correctly but I agree, the rules are different in college. I think both rules should be changed. 15 yard for leading with crown of helmet, no ejection either way. The hit wasn't called correctly. There were two separate issues. One was called correctly, he was now a runner. The second wasn't, Shazier led with his helmet and hit helmet to helmet. That's a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) How long until people start to recognize that Shazier is a dirty player. Edited January 10, 2016 by GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 The hit wasn't called correctly. There were two separate issues. One was called correctly, he was now a runner. The second wasn't, Shazier led with his helmet and hit helmet to helmet. That's a penalty. I'll say looking at a replay I initially was watching the ball and his steps and didn't catch entirely how far he dropped his head. Did look to be crown that he leads with. At a glance I thought it was just the standard issue head meets head but he definitely was eyes to the ground which is dangerous for all parties and a penalty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 The hit wasn't called correctly. There were two separate issues. One was called correctly, he was now a runner. The second wasn't, Shazier led with his helmet and hit helmet to helmet. That's a penalty. This is exactly what I thought. All Mike Carey talked about was the runner part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I'll say looking at a replay I initially was watching the ball and his steps and didn't catch entirely how far he dropped his head. Did look to be crown that he leads with. At a glance I thought it was just the standard issue head meets head but he definitely was eyes to the ground which is dangerous for all parties and a penalty I thought it was glaring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 How long until people start to recognize that Shazier is a dirty player.Sammy agrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I thought it was glaring. In rewatching, it was. I wasn't looking at the heads at all given the initial commentary and was just watching if he completed the catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 because he is not a defenseless receiver when he turns to run. Should every RB that fumbles not count when they get hit in the head. Bad call Defenseless player status isn't the only rule that prohibits a head shot. Rule 12, Section 2, Article 6(h): Unnecessary Roughness is.... (h) using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; " Based on that rule, I don't see how Shazier's hit was not flagged. Seems like they got obsessed with the defenseless player/becomes a runner rule and forgot about good old leading with the helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadog Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 The referees clearly had a negative impact on that game. They blew it. Big time. If I'm a bengals fan I'd be beyond furious. The black and gold vs the bungles. No surprise the refs blown calls were in favor of the steelers. Not to mention the additional 15 yard penalty on pacman for unsportsmanlike conduct against Joey porter....the steeler coach who was illegally on the field. While the refs called munchak for unsportsmanlike conduct.....Joey porter wasn't flagged for running onto the field screaming at baiting the bengals. Yes terrible nfl game. Makes more evident that nfl is a rigged game controled by whom the league wants to win. The Steelers reciever Brown actually ran into Burfect and knocked himself out, burfect never hit him brown hit burfect both were just following through momentum of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadog Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 LWhy was Porter allowed on field to taunt Bengles players, but no penelty? I remember one Bills game Rex stepped off the sideline to jaw a ref and got a flag. Makes no sense. Bengles got jocked, then they call Bengles fan classless for their actions. What do expect when you f with peoples heads like the nfl has. The nfl officials are a disgrace to the integrity of the game. All the hard work put in by the players and coaches to be thrown away by a fat overpaid partime no league employeed lawyer or insurance salesman is a joke. Why dont the leage hire full time trained pro. Refs. This happens year after year and gets worse every season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Nah. If I was a coach and saw what Shazier did to my players, I'd just tell my players that the refs aren't callin it and it's open season on everyone. Hit everyone with the crown of their helmet as long as they're not defenseless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Once again the college football product is proven vastly superior to the NFLs. I didn't like the hit and it was called correctly but I agree, the rules are different in college. I think both rules should be changed. 15 yard for leading with crown of helmet, no ejection either way. I like the ejection but it should be after two penalties not one, AND they should be clearly deliberate like Shaziers was. This would be confirmed on replay by an independent official not a biased one who made the call on the field. It should Not be one of those ones where the offensive player moves at the last second and there was nothing the D player could have done to prevent the contact Agreed, the refs missed the spear directly to Bernards jaw. As for Burfict...well that dude should be banned from the NFL. Not only is he an out of control douche bag most of the time he probably cost Marvin Lewis his job. Side note...Deion Sanders embarrassed himself defending the hit on Brown as unavoidable. Yeah, not quite bud. Brown was hit by the other Bengal after he jumped and his body shifted pretty noticeably before burdock hit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 How long until people start to recognize that Shazier is a dirty player. he's a POS, no doubt with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 OP's intent is right. But agree with others who say current rules nullify the turnover--and that this call was blown by the officials. This is the worst year of officiating in my memory, dating back to the 1980s. How can officiating be fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 LWhy was Porter allowed on field to taunt Bengles players, but no penelty? I remember one Bills game Rex stepped off the sideline to jaw a ref and got a flag. Makes no sense. Bengles got jocked, then they call Bengles fan classless for their actions. What do expect when you f with peoples heads like the nfl has. The nfl officials are a disgrace to the integrity of the game. All the hard work put in by the players and coaches to be thrown away by a fat overpaid partime no league employeed lawyer or insurance salesman is a joke. Why dont the leage hire full time trained pro. Refs. This happens year after year and gets worse every season? If you are truly asking a question at the end of all that, I guess the answer would have to be: Huh?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Any turnover caused by a blow to the head should not count. What Shazier did to Bernard is exactly what Jacksonville did to LeSean McCoy. Why are any blows to the head allowed? OK, bad form to re-post, but since expressing the opinion that Shazier didn't lead with the crown of his helmet, I've had the chance to watch a different angle of film and he did, indeed, hit Bernard's chin with his helmet first (you can see Bernard's head snap back), then his head shifts to the left into Bernard's shoulder (which is what I saw when I said he was not leading with the crown of his helmet). So it does violate a current rule, and it should have been penalized 15 yards and the fumble not count as the result of a penalized play. Some might like to speculate how the game might have differed if a penalty had been called there. I think the new rule needed might be, when reviewing a COP, the refs review the play for illegal hits and can call one after the fact if deemed necessary. Right now they can review the fumble, but as far as I know they can't retroactively throw a flag. Nah. If I was a coach and saw what Shazier did to my players, I'd just tell my players that the refs aren't callin it and it's open season on everyone. Hit everyone with the crown of their helmet as long as they're not defenseless. You mean kind of like the Bengals did? Yes terrible nfl game. Makes more evident that nfl is a rigged game controled by whom the league wants to win. The Steelers reciever Brown actually ran into Burfect and knocked himself out, burfect never hit him brown hit burfect both were just following through momentum of play. I disagree with that based upon the film I have watched today. LWhy was Porter allowed on field to taunt Bengles players, but no penelty? He should not have been. He shouldn't have been on the field, for one (he is not a team assistant trainer or medical staff nor is he Brown's position coach or HC, he's a defensive assistant coach). So he should have been told to "get off". And his jawing should have been an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 OK, bad form to re-post, but since expressing the opinion that Shazier didn't lead with the crown of his helmet, I've had the chance to watch a different angle of film and he did, indeed, hit Bernard's chin with his helmet first (you can see Bernard's head snap back), then his head shifts to the left into Bernard's shoulder (which is what I saw when I said he was not leading with the crown of his helmet). So it does violate a current rule, and it should have been penalized 15 yards and the fumble not count as the result of a penalized play. Some might like to speculate how the game might have differed if a penalty had been called there. I think the new rule needed might be, when reviewing a COP, the refs review the play for illegal hits and can call one after the fact if deemed necessary. Right now they can review the fumble, but as far as I know they can't retroactively throw a flag. . Glad you came around to see the blatant illegal hit. The NFL is in a real pickle. They allow some penalties to be called during the review process, but they hide behind a bad excuse in not calling the "judgment calls" which is what Shazier did. Maybe the NFL lawyers will sit in with the competition committee and remind the owners there's a few billion at stake every time a Shazier lowers his head and knocks out a player. It's very easy to take those kinds of hits out of the game. If you lead with a helmet, you're out of the game. If that hit results in a player being carted off, you're gone for another game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 No, the rule should be if you lead with the crown, you're ejected I support this. It'll suck at first, because a lot of judgment calls will be made in error, but I think eventually players will change their tackling technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 This is exactly what I thought. All Mike Carey talked about was the runner part. Then the definition of a helpless receiver needs to include a WR looking back at the QB when catching the ball. Bernard had no opportunity to react to Shazier. That should be glaringly obvious if a rule is meant to protect him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) OK, bad form to re-post, but since expressing the opinion that Shazier didn't lead with the crown of his helmet, I've had the chance to watch a different angle of film and he did, indeed, hit Bernard's chin with his helmet first (you can see Bernard's head snap back), then his head shifts to the left into Bernard's shoulder (which is what I saw when I said he was not leading with the crown of his helmet). So it does violate a current rule, and it should have been penalized 15 yards and the fumble not count as the result of a penalized play. Some might like to speculate how the game might have differed if a penalty had been called there. I think the new rule needed might be, when reviewing a COP, the refs review the play for illegal hits and can call one after the fact if deemed necessary. Right now they can review the fumble, but as far as I know they can't retroactively throw a flag. You mean kind of like the Bengals did? I disagree with that based upon the film I have watched today. He should not have been. He shouldn't have been on the field, for one (he is not a team assistant trainer or medical staff nor is he Brown's position coach or HC, he's a defensive assistant coach). So he should have been told to "get off". And his jawing should have been an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. Is there a rule as to which staff can go out on to the field to check on an injured player? Would anyone mind if a Bills coaching staff went out to check on a player who got laid out on a cheap shot and the started jawing at the opposing players? Edited January 11, 2016 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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