vegas55 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 It's great to see the Bills running game make such giant strides, but the NFL of 2015, with its rules so heavily favoring passing, makes this offensive philosophy problematic. The biggest problem with it is that in general no matter how much your team is dominating the game, this offensive style tends to keep the game close. In a game that is close as the 4th quarter winds down, anything can happen. And with the Bills that is generally a bad thing. Take Sunday's game for example. I listen to Chris Brown and Sal C. go on about how well the Bills played, how great the offensive design was etc etc. True enough, but with all that going for them, and all their talent, playing at home with zero turnovers, this game was TIED with less than two minutes to go. A blown coverage gets them the win, but we all know in that situation ANYTHING could happen, and a tipped ball or fumble could have cost them a game wherein they played so well and dominated. Why? Because a conservative, ground and pound O kept the score close, and even a journeyman QB like Hoyer, behind in the game and forced to air it out, brings them back to a toss up with less than two minutes to go. Doug Marone loved to pound the ball, and loved to tell everybody how important winning the turnover battle was. But check the Bills record under him, and you will see that they lost an inordinate amount of games when they WON the turnover battle, and squeaked out wins when they won that battle by a margin of two or three. Why - because his ground and pound kept the other team close, and an unlucky break or bad last half of fourth quarter cost them games they dominated in turnovers and play. Not dissing the run game, but simply pointing out the downside of that O philosophy, given the rules we have in NFL 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Bills scored 30 points last week and missed an extra point. There are only three teams in the league that average 31 points a game and they are all right around 31. We are tenth overall in scoring and that is with a lot of injuries and a first year HC and OC and system and QB and 2 RB and TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Bills are 5-1 when they rush for 130 or more. It opens up the passing game, which is clicking. Ground and pound away. Also, defenses are being built more to stop the passing game than a power run game because of where many offenses are going/have gone. This is advantage Bills if they can do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Ground & pound It's more like shake & bake with Shady in there & i can't for the life of me figure out why they brought Felton in & paid him what they did because they sure aren't getting much if any return on the money they spent ! Especially in a "Ground & Pound" type scheme i don't know that the guy has been on the field for 30 plays this year has ha ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Bills are 5-1 when they rush for 130 or more. It opens up the passing game, which is clicking. Ground and pound away. Also, defenses are being built more to stop the passing game than a power run game because of where many offenses are going/have gone. This is advantage Bills if they can do both. I recall similar in years past. Then the Bills rush (individual over 100 or team for)130 or more they typically win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Shady & Karlos are more "slash and bash." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Shady & Karlos are more "slash and bash." Smash and Dash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Smash and Dash! Okay yeah, that's better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Smash and Dash! Rosencrantz and Guildenstern! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Bills are 5-1 when they rush for 130 or more. It opens up the passing game, which is clicking. Ground and pound away. Also, defenses are being built more to stop the passing game than a power run game because of where many offenses are going/have gone. This is advantage Bills if they can do both. Is there a team that has a losing record when they rush for 130 or more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Ground & pound It's more like shake & bake with Shady in there & i can't for the life of me figure out why they brought Felton in & paid him what they did because they sure aren't getting much if any return on the money they spent ! Especially in a "Ground & Pound" type scheme i don't know that the guy has been on the field for 30 plays this year has ha ?? I remember some posts in here saying the same thing about Felton. I agreed. This past week Felton appeared to make much more of an impact. They seem to like using him on that sweep play as an extra pulling Olineman. McCoy is by far the best RB we have seen since Thurman. McCoy gets 9 yards when most backs would get stopped at the line or maybe a few yards. If McCoy stays healthy i like the Bills shot at the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 The great Bills offense of 1990 with Kelly and Thurman, which was #1 in the league, averaged 200 yards passing and 130 yards rushing per game. 130 yards per game was pretty awesome back then. The Bills are currently #4 in the NFL in rushing at 140.9 yards per game. We're also #10 in scoring at 24.7 points per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I'm really glad someone found a reason to start another thread focusing on something to worry about. Geez. The Bills scored 21 first half points on Sunday. Robert Woods fell down to foul up a 2nd half TD, and Charles Clay dropped a wide open pass across the middle to extend a drive. They missed a FG. And they still scored 30. Relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Bills are currently #4 in the NFL in rushing at 140.9 yards per game. We're also #10 in scoring at 24.7 points per game. With an average defense and entirely crappy special teams and a boatload of injuries, combined with, as stated above, a new HC, OC, QB, RB, TE and system. That's more than decent production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Pass to score, run to win. Running and being able to stop the run will NEVER be passe in this league. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I remember some posts in here saying the same thing about Felton. I agreed. This past week Felton appeared to make much more of an impact. They seem to like using him on that sweep play as an extra pulling Olineman. McCoy is by far the best RB we have seen since Thurman. McCoy gets 9 yards when most backs would get stopped at the line or maybe a few yards. If McCoy stays healthy i like the Bills shot at the playoffs. I thought from the many Freddie fans that Freddie is the best we have had since Thurman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBBullsfan Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 the problem with ground and pound is that offensive lines are rarely good enough to do it anymore. Dallas did it last year... Can you think of any other recent examples where an O line was that dominant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 It's great to see the Bills running game make such giant strides, but the NFL of 2015, with its rules so heavily favoring passing, makes this offensive philosophy problematic. The biggest problem with it is that in general no matter how much your team is dominating the game, this offensive style tends to keep the game close. In a game that is close as the 4th quarter winds down, anything can happen. And with the Bills that is generally a bad thing. Take Sunday's game for example. I listen to Chris Brown and Sal C. go on about how well the Bills played, how great the offensive design was etc etc. True enough, but with all that going for them, and all their talent, playing at home with zero turnovers, this game was TIED with less than two minutes to go. A blown coverage gets them the win, but we all know in that situation ANYTHING could happen, and a tipped ball or fumble could have cost them a game wherein they played so well and dominated. Why? Because a conservative, ground and pound O kept the score close, and even a journeyman QB like Hoyer, behind in the game and forced to air it out, brings them back to a toss up with less than two minutes to go. Doug Marone loved to pound the ball, and loved to tell everybody how important winning the turnover battle was. But check the Bills record under him, and you will see that they lost an inordinate amount of games when they WON the turnover battle, and squeaked out wins when they won that battle by a margin of two or three. Why - because his ground and pound kept the other team close, and an unlucky break or bad last half of fourth quarter cost them games they dominated in turnovers and play. Not dissing the run game, but simply pointing out the downside of that O philosophy, given the rules we have in NFL 2015. The Bills score plenty of points this year, especially when the run game is working. Ground and Pound got the Seahawks to back to back Super Bowls, and they would have won the 2nd had they stuck to the Ground and Pound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 It's fine when your defense is playing at a high level. We just don't have that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 It's not the ground and pound, it's the defense. If we we were still 4th in the NFL, led the league in sacks, led in run defense, and was scoring on offense, rushing and deep threat passing like we are today, we would be at 9-3. Remember the defense has the capability like last year to give us great field position with deep sacks where they can't make up for 3-23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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