Steve Billieve Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Not confident in Whaley. The homers on this board are out of control. The talent on this roster is thanks to Buddy Nix and Pegula's deep pockets. Whaley came into power as GM at the perfect time, with a solid core already built and tonnes of cap space and a new owner willing to spend. Didn't like the McCoy trade, especially since it's been reported that Philly would have taken picks instead. I definitely didn't like the contract extension they gave him right after either. They overpaid for Clay and Harvin also. The Watkins trade also seems foolish without a QB to get him the ball. I just really don't get the love for this guy here. Interesting, that most of your examples are situations where we don't have a verifiable verdict on yet. I'm a little nervous about all those decisions too, but we'll see how they turn out. After watching Watkins play I feel a lot better about that trade. I'm no expert but just watching him play, compared to some of the other "elite" receivers out of that draft and I definitely prefer Watkins by a mile. I remember when Nix was GM, he spent a lot of time talking up Whaley, and mentioning how integral he was to the process . . . so that argument at least cuts both ways. Yeah, the only thing higher than Whaley's approval is Pegula's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 The best GM's have plenty of misses. DW seems like he has a plan and is sticking to it. I have every confidence in him. He was a little tone deaf on Freddie. Could've made the move with a bit more grace, but it was the best for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The ceiling on this team with no proven QB is 10 wins the floor is 6 wins. That comes down to about 4 plays. That will tell the whole story on whether Whaley is a genius or out the door. Im not being facetious, but this teams ceiling is 16 in reg season and floor is 0. There is no way that those numbers are fact based. At this point... before a game is even played its all conjecture. Too many variables that go into that for me to be able to assess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Not confident in Whaley. The homers on this board are out of control. The talent on this roster is thanks to Buddy Nix and Pegula's deep pockets. Whaley came into power as GM at the perfect time, with a solid core already built and tonnes of cap space and a new owner willing to spend. Didn't like the McCoy trade, especially since it's been reported that Philly would have taken picks instead. I definitely didn't like the contract extension they gave him right after either. They overpaid for Clay and Harvin also. The Watkins trade also seems foolish without a QB to get him the ball. I just really don't get the love for this guy here. I agree that he took over at a good time because Buddy had done some solid work at least taking the roster out of the gutter. However, my love is based on the fact that I disagree on the Watkins trade, I disagree on the Shady trade and I disagree on Clay. The one move I did not like (even though it basically a one year deal) was Harvin who will flatter to deceive like he has everywhere elseand I have to believe Rex had a big hand in that. Edited September 7, 2015 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 More confident than unconfident, but I'm not fully sold yet. Mostly from his association with Ralph's stooges, primarily Brandon. I dont even know how to feel about Brandon anymore. He is a yes man. But, with the Pegulas it seems that he can do his job and he does do it well... Ralph stooges, namely Jim Overdorf and Littman, seem competent now. They pulled multiple rabits out of their hats to assemble this team. The numbers they crunched to get Clay under cap. Extend harvin, and possibly restructure Mario to perhaps have him retire a Bill, I feel as though if they find a way to re-sign Dareus, while keeping atleast two of: Bradham, Gilmore, Glenn. I cant really call them stooges anymore. They are starting to seem competent. This. Still lots of mistakes, and questions. No known franchise QB after three off seasons. Tyrod Taylor is unknown! The team gives up two first round picks, and a 4th pick to draft a WR when they didn't have a known franchise QB. OG Colin Brown as a starter after the Bills let Levitre leave, and then Doug Legursky as his backup with a first round pick at QB starting was nuts. Signing OG Chris Williams who signed for something like 5 million, geez what a bum. That offensive line was one of the worst blocking units in the league last year. Erik Pears at RG... holy crap! The 2nd round pick at RT in Kujo was so bad he couldn't get on the field for one of the worst offensive lines in the league. So the 7th rounder starts. We still don't know if that 3rd round pick at RG in Miller or LG Incognito will be good enough this year, and if either gets injured the team is screwed with no solid depth. They both looked brilliant in pre season, and hopefully they continue to as good once the season starts. Unknown tho. Will any of the three backup RB's be anywhere near as good as Freddy has been? But to be fair... Dont you think that those decisions were made by Marrone, your allusions to the Oline. Marrone thought he could switch everyone around. Marrone tells Whaley what he needs and he goes and gets it. I feel like this post is more an indictment on the coaches than the GM. The mark of a good GM, one that understands the philosophy of his head coach and attempts to acquire players that fit that philosophy. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMan Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I don't see any logic in cutting Fred. Because there was none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Frankly I think we're lucky to have Whaley. While I sometimes am upset by the moves, he's put together a heck of a roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 He's done well but his big challenge now is to locate an effective kicker or a great psychologist for Carpenter. And he needs to do either ASAP. An inconsistent kicker could ruin the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsguy Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Fred Jackson said Doug Whaley was the only person in the Bills organization who was dishonest with him. I believe Fred Jackson. Whaley is questionable in several areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I don't see any logic in cutting Fred. Because there was none. There is logic. I just cant say that my logic was his logic at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) I dont even know how to feel about Brandon anymore. He is a yes man. But, with the Pegulas it seems that he can do his job and he does do it well... Ralph stooges, namely Jim Overdorf and Littman, seem competent now. They pulled multiple rabits out of their hats to assemble this team. The numbers they crunched to get Clay under cap. Littman retired, quit, or was shown the door (your choice) when the Pegulas took over as owners. Overdorf seems to be doing a good job, I agree I believe the difference is, previously the front office finance guys set a budget for the team and either were the personnel people (Brandon functioning as GM) or dictated to them. Now it seems the coaches tell the FO finance guys what they want to do (sign Clay with a contract Miami can't match; resign Dareus) and the FO tries hard to get it done - though in Dareus case it may be shooting back with "well if that's what you want you need to get me $10M of cap room PDQ" or the like Fred Jackson said Doug Whaley was the only person in the Bills organization who was dishonest with him. I believe Fred Jackson. Whaley is questionable in several areas. Dude, Fred Jackson took being cut very personally. Go back and look at what Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed, and Bruce Smith said when they were cut. Now Thurman is a huge Bills supporter. The utterings of a player who has just been unexpectedly cut or traded are always to be taken with a large shaker of salt. But believe what you like. I don't see any logic in cutting Fred. Because there was none. If you don't see logic, maybe you're looking with your heart and not your best hard-headed neurons. You may disagree with the decision - many do. But the logic of it is relatively easy to follow. Edited September 7, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Whaley is the man. Am I upset that he cut Fred? Ohhhhhhhhh yeah. I'm sure he has his reasons. I'm all in on Doug Whaley. I hope he's a bill for the next couple decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 What do you really think about Whaley? Since releasing Fred, I see Whaley becoming a bit of a meme around here ("going rogue," etc.). Personally, I was upset about Fred, think the EJ pick was a disaster, and recognize how much we gave up for Sammy considering there were other great WR picks in that draft. However, my confidence in Whaley has never been higher. Is he not primarily responsible for the stellar roster we currently have? All I have seen since Whaley joined the Bills, and since he took over the Bills, is the Bills getting WAY more competitive and the culture and expectations completely changed. I love Whaley, and I think some of the fools around here should appreciate competence when they see it. The Bills are good, and it's because of Whaley. how about five options with different levels of optimism. Yep. Nix was a disaster, Whaley has done well in some areas and poor in others but much better than sleeps a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Yep. Both Buddy Nix and Whaley share some credit for the current roster. Murph has a pretty good article just up on BuffaloBills.com: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-Bills-roster/555c801b-4682-41fa-98e7-f94e43652dc4 He points out that 32 of the 52 guys on the current roster were added on Whaley's watch, including 10 of the 13 draft picks. Nix inherited a totally wet mess - horrible talent, blown draft choices in the early rounds, no established QB, a crappy scouting staff. He was National Scout in 2009 when we drafted Maybin in the 1st round and deserves question as to how much input he had in that choice. There were also questionable decisions - bringing in Shawne Merriman and keeping him around for years, for example. The overall philosophy seemed to be giving players multple years to develop if they were injured (Easley, Troup, etc) and doing very little wheeling and dealing (trades, draft moves). Arguably the biggest gaffe of Nix' tenure was the (in hindsight) premature contract extension to Ryan Fitzpatrick and the failure to draft a QB until 2013. A number of the biggest stars still on the Bills roster were added under Nix's watch (see below). The unknown question is how much input and influence Whaley had between his arrival in Feb 2010 and becoming GM in 2013 after the draft. The Sheppard for Hughes trade made right before Whaley took over was probably a Whaley move, but was EJM Whaley's guy? Nix's? Both? It's also a good question how much the respective coaches (Gailey, Marrone, now Ryan) influenced the choice of players. My guess is that for the high-profile guys (McCoy, Clay, the QBs etc) probably a lot of influence, for the lunchpail guys not so much. Change of ownership (a more free spending culture) also has an influence. My bottom line is that if the Bills win big, both Nix and Whaley deserve credit. The roster was much improved when Nix left than when he arrived, and IMO it's taken another big step under Whaley. Two big changes under Whaley seem to be much greater willingness to trade, and much less interest in keeping players around if they're not healthy (Merriman vs Chris Williams) or are considered to cost more than their value (Byrd, Spiller, FredEx, Cassel). It's more heartless and harder-headed, and I think unfortunately that's the needed mentality. Notable acquisitions under Nix 2010 (Whaley hired as assistant GM in Feb 2010) Eric Wood Carrington (Backup) Easley (ST, backup WR) Kraig Urbik (FA) 2011 (Modrak fired right after draft) Dareus Aaron Williams 2012 Gilmore Glenn Bradham Brooks Mario Williams (signed as FA) Chris Hogan (PS fall 2012) 2013 (Whaley took over as GM right after draft) EJ Manuel (backup QB) Robert Woods Marquise Goodwin Duke Williams Chris Gragg (backup TE) Nickell Robey (UDFA) Jerry Hughes (trade) Manny Lawson (FA signing) Corbin Bryant (FA after 2012 season) Notable acquisitions under Whaley, still on the roster: 2013 Mario Butler (PS in Nov) Stefan Charles (PS in Nov) 2014 Sammy Watkins Kouandjio (backup OT) Preston Brown Randall Johnson (backup) Seantrel Henderson Bryce Brown (trade) Anthony Dixon (FA signing) Marqueis Gray (FA signing) Marcus Thigpen (FA signing) Corey Graham (FA signing) Bacarri Rambo (FA Fall 2014) 2015 Ron Darby John Miller Karlos Williams Tony Steward Nick O'Leary Tyrod Taylor (FA signing) Charles Clay (FA signing) Jerome Felton (FA signing) Percy Harvin (FA signing) Shady McCoy (trade) Ritchie Incognito (FA signing) AJ Tarpley (FA signing) Jerome Felton (FA signing) Matthew Mulligan (FA signing) Gabe Ikard (FA signing) Edited September 7, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I agree Hopeful. The credit should be shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I have just read Sullivan's latest piece on Whaley being a gambler which ends "what if the locker room explodes? What if the Bills finish below .500?" It is the biggest load of nonsense I hve ever read. If a team's locker room "explodes" and a team has a losing record, especially when that is a step back from the year before, the GM and the coach are always on the hotseat. Whaley cutting Fred and Cassel makes no difference to that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I have just read Sullivan's latest piece on Whaley being a gambler which ends "what if the locker room explodes? What if the Bills finish below .500?" It is the biggest load of nonsense I hve ever read. If a team's locker room "explodes" and a team has a losing record, especially when that is a step back from the year before, the GM and the coach are always on the hotseat. Whaley cutting Fred and Cassel makes no difference to that at all. Sometimes Sullivan IMO,makes a bit of sense.Lately though between Graham,Sully, etc. these guys have been off The charts with their negativity, unsubstantiated rumor mongering, etc. It seems like they just want the team too fail. WTF? besides fishing for clicks did these guys get shut out from the post camp barbacue? because this article is just fluff. But it will Generate clicks so bravo Sully! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whites Bay Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Lets not forget the moves that were NOT made that turned out to be correct. Like Byrd? How about NOT re-signing Brandon Spikes? I miss his run-stuffing, but talk about deftly side-stepping a PR dumpster fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Whaley is ok. Nothing more than that. He got players that Marrone wanted in the draft and now is getting players that Blowhard Ryan wants via FA. How many players were invited or came in from the Jets this offseason If true that Whaley was dishonest with FJ then he too is a blowhard like Rex. I remember how much I hated Rex so much. ( and his brother ) and now I have to cheer for that loudmouth attention seeker. Oh well...Vive les Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Whaley is ok. Nothing more than that. He got players that Marrone wanted in the draft and now is getting players that Blowhard Ryan wants via FA. How many players were invited or came in from the Jets this offseason If true that Whaley was dishonest with FJ then he too is a blowhard like Rex. I remember how much I hated Rex so much. ( and his brother ) and now I have to cheer for that loudmouth attention seeker. Oh well...Vive les Bills! Marrone was so happy with getting Watkins in the 2014 draft that he stormed out of the room and he never had any arguments with Whaley on player personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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