Wawrow Article Indicates EJ Sees Wall's Writing

[Kelly the Dog]

It was already public knowledge that Nix was stepping down and Whaley was assuming the GM role. Once they made that public, then there is no way Nix makes a move without Whaley's approval. Think about it. No way Whaley says "yeah I'll take the job in a year and sure you can let Mr. Nix do whatever he wants between then and now." It just isn't going to happen because if Nix did that, he would be burning his bridge in Buffalo and essentially destroying his reputation as being a good ole boy. And the other management in charge at that time would have never asked Whaley to be put in a position where that could happen.

All I can say is that it seemed that way about Marrone, too, and I even believed it. But then we found out later that he wasn't Whaley's first choice he was Nix and Brandon's.

[Rob's House]

Kolb was signed well before the draft. They didn't know who was going to be available at the time, if they could make a trade down, etc. All they knew at that time was that EJ was the top guy on their board. They still had Tarvaris Jackson when they signed Kolb, too. He signed for 6m with playing time incentives to 12-13m. If they really wanted EJ to start they never would have traded down. Everyone knew he was a project. The bad move was that Kolb was the guy they signed because he was an injury waiting to happen (although again there was not a lot to choose from).

I think the cutting of TJax supports my theory that they planned to have EJ starting sooner rather than later.

[KOKBILLS]

Kolb was signed well before the draft. They didn't know who was going to be available at the time, if they could make a trade down, etc. All they knew at that time was that EJ was the top guy on their board. They still had Tarvaris Jackson when they signed Kolb, too. He signed for 6m with playing time incentives to 12-13m. If they really wanted EJ to start they never would have traded down. Everyone knew he was a project. The bad move was that Kolb was the guy they signed because he was an injury waiting to happen (although again there was not a lot to choose from).

 

So true...I know I've mentioned this a few times, but Mayock was really the first one to move EJ way up his board...I remember the day he did it...But from the start Mayock used the "clay" analogy with EJ...And even though he saw great potential in EJ, MM was crystal clear about the fact that EJ was not ready to start yet...He basically said that EJ had everything you look for from a physical standpoint, but it would take time...And it would be best for him to sit behind a vet for a year or two...So...That's coming from one of EJ's most vocal supporters...I think it's obvious now how he should have been handled...And how still he should be handled based on his first two years under Marrone...

[Kelly the Dog]

I think the cutting of TJax supports my theory that they planned to have EJ starting sooner rather than later.

Well that could have been. Who knows. Actually EJ was beating out Kolb before Kolb got hurt because Kolb was playing so horrible. All I was talking about was the plan not the end result. I very much doubt when he was drafted anyone on the Bills thought EJ would be ready to be the opening day starter in the NFL.

 

The idea behind the Tarvaris cut was they didn't want to divide the reps up between three like they did this year.

[PolishDave]

Kolb=Cassel?

Not in my opinion. From what I see, it appears that Cassel is a much better quarterback than Kolb was when Buffalo signed him. Time will tell, but I think Cassel looks much, much better at this point.

[3rdand12]

They told Fitz that he would have to take a huge pay cut, they were drafting a QB high and he would have to fight for his job. The phone call really pissed Fitz off. So he wasn't going to agree.

Gotta get the order right in my mind, Kelly. i may be incorrect ha? but wasn't the phone call exposed before the attempt at negotiations? Seems that came out much later ??

[Solomon Grundy]

So true...I know I've mentioned this a few times, but Mayock was really the first one to move EJ way up his board...I remember the day he did it...But from the start Mayock used the "clay" analogy with EJ...And even though he saw great potential in EJ, MM was crystal clear about the fact that EJ was not ready to start yet...He basically said that EJ had everything you look for from a physical standpoint, but it would take time...And it would be best for him to sit behind a vet for a year or two...So...That's coming from one of EJ's most vocal supporters...I think it's obvious now how he should have been handled...And how still he should be handled based on his first two years under Marrone...

Yes!! The "clay" analogy!! The same one Greg Roman used.

What happens if EJ has a good game tomorrow?

[PolishDave]

All I can say is that it seemed that way about Marrone, too, and I even believed it. But then we found out later that he wasn't Whaley's first choice he was Nix and Brandon's.

Good point.

 

I just think Whaley would have brought the issue up when he first talked about taking that promotion. Naturally, one of the first things on his mind would be, "Hey Russ, what are my options at the end of this year if I disagree with what our existing GM does with the personnel between now and then?"

 

In fact, I would be willing to bet that Russ already had that worked out with Nix before they even made the offer to Whaley. Brandon probably asked Nix to play ball. And I am sure that Nix, being an old school football good ole boy was more than willing to go over every major decision with Whaley and make sure Whaley was okay with it.

 

Obviously I don't know for a fact that it happened that way. I just can't wrap my head around it happening any other way.

[BackInDaDay]

jeez, i wish i was 'clay' again..

[Kelly the Dog]

Good point.

 

I just think Whaley would have brought the issue up when he first talked about taking that promotion. Naturally, one of the first things on his mind would be, "Hey Russ, what are my options at the end of this year if I disagree with what our existing GM does with the personnel between now and then?"

 

In fact, I would be willing to bet that Russ already had that worked out with Nix before they even made the offer to Whaley. Brandon probably asked Nix to play ball. And I am sure that Nix, being an old school football good ole boy was more than willing to go over every major decision with Whaley and make sure Whaley was okay with it.

 

Obviously I don't know for a fact that it happened that way. I just can't wrap my head around it happening any other way.

I agree with all of that. But being on board with it, or as Whaley is fond of saying, internal debate external unity, is different than him being the guy that made the decision. I can easily see Whaley thinking that EJ was a better draft pick than Geno Smith. I did myself. But didn't think either was a day one starter. And I doubt Whaley did.

[BADOLBILZ]

Here is proof:

 

Whaley says flat out on the Bills site the plan was for EJ to sit and learn behind Kolb but it got thrown out the window when Kolb got hurt.

 

http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2015/08/05/how-the-original-plan-for-ej-was-compromised/

 

i think the only way he or Buddy would ever say otherwise would have been if EJ went Luck/RG3 on the league.

They told Fitz that he would have to take a huge pay cut, they were drafting a QB high and he would have to fight for his job. The phone call really pissed Fitz off. So he wasn't going to agree.

 

 

And that isn't at all congruent with the idea that their plan was to sit a rookie QB behind a veteran.

[PolishDave]

I agree with all of that. But being on board with it, or as Whaley is fond of saying, internal debate external unity, is different than him being the guy that made the decision. I can easily see Whaley thinking that EJ was a better draft pick than Geno Smith. I did myself. But didn't think either was a day one starter. And I doubt Whaley did.

 

No doubt every Bills fan agrees that the entire quarterback situation in the prior 6 months leading up to drafting EJ was a giant cluster flop. Some here would no doubt argue that drafting EJ was part of that mess. (not that I am saying that)

 

I'm just not willing to let Whaley off the hook for that cluster flop of a mess that happened even after Fitz left. In my mind, (other than the fiasco with Fitz) I place at least 50% of the blame on Whaley for allowing the Kolb signing to happen. They must have known it was a huge gamble signing Kolb as their veteran guy. And it backfired. Everyone who was part of that decision shares in some of the blame, but Nix and Whaley were at the top. Whaley can't be excluded completely. Nix can't take 100% of the blame. That is what the Bills organization wants fans to do, but I am not that stupid, at least not about that.

[YattaOkasan]

It was already public knowledge that Nix was stepping down and Whaley was assuming the GM role. Once they made that public, then there is no way Nix makes a move without Whaley's approval. Think about it. No way Whaley says "yeah I'll take the job in a year and sure you can let Mr. Nix do whatever he wants between then and now." It just isn't going to happen because if Nix did that, he would be burning his bridge in Buffalo and essentially destroying his reputation as being a good ole boy. And the other management in charge at that time would have never asked Whaley to be put in a position where that could happen.

I disagree that your hypothetical quote couldn't happen. Assuming he wasn't getting other offers, I wouldn't be surprised if he did say that honestly. It's an NFL GM position. Its like a dream job; certainly pinnacle of his profession right? If I was told I would be Director in a year if I shut up and let my current manager finish his tenure, I would shut up and take the position in a year. A role in decision making would just be a nice to have.

 

I did appreciate your perspective on Kolb and liked your later posts too btw.

 

Nix can't take 100% of the blame.

EDIT: I do agree with this. You are right Whaley was probably involved in the decision making process, but I am assigning most of the blame to Nix. I would say 85%.

Edited August 20, 2015 by YattaOkasan

[Rico]

 

i think the only way he or Buddy would ever say otherwise would have been if EJ went Luck/RG3 on the league.

 

 

And that isn't at all congruent with the idea that their plan was to sit a rookie QB behind a veteran.

Well, Chris Brown concurs with Whaley, so it's got to be true.

[Kelly the Dog]

i think the only way he or Buddy would ever say otherwise would have been if EJ went Luck/RG3 on the league.

 

 

And that isn't at all congruent with the idea that their plan was to sit a rookie QB behind a veteran.

I think Buddy, like most Bills fans, was done with Fitz as a starter, but more important than that, it was leverage in the negotiations to say things like that if they wanted him to take a massive pay cut and have to fight for his job.

 

My theory, after learning quite some time ago that Marrone was a Nix guy and not a Whaley choice was that Nix was always going to hand the reigns over to Whaley. Everyone said it and agreed it just was a matter of when. Nix also said he would never retire unless he felt like the Bills had a franchise guy in place or a guy who could/would become the franchise guy. I think what likely happened was, as soon as they hired Marrone, and perhaps internally agreed that EJ would be their #1 pick over Geno or Nassib or Barkley, that Nix all but stepped down right before the draft or even somewhat during the draft. As long as he got the guy he wanted, which we know was EJ because there wasn't another QB taken, then he would let Whaley take over. Because the next couple high picks were Whaley kind of picks and not Nix, who loved those big southern boys. Woods and Kiko especially were not really Nix kind of players.

 

This also went along with the idea that Nix had his coach in place and his QB in place and he could ride off into the sunset. The Bills could then promote this new era of young President, young HC, and young GM, with a first round QB as the future and start all afresh. And Nix was completely okay with that idea.

No doubt every Bills fan agrees that the entire quarterback situation in the prior 6 months leading up to drafting EJ was a giant cluster flop. Some here would no doubt argue that drafting EJ was part of that mess. (not that I am saying that)

 

I'm just not willing to let Whaley off the hook for that cluster flop of a mess that happened even after Fitz left. In my mind, (other than the fiasco with Fitz) I place at least 50% of the blame on Whaley for allowing the Kolb signing to happen. They must have known it was a huge gamble signing Kolb as their veteran guy. And it backfired. Everyone who was part of that decision shares in some of the blame, but Nix and Whaley were at the top. Whaley can't be excluded completely. Nix can't take 100% of the blame. That is what the Bills organization wants fans to do, but I am not that stupid, at least not about that.

I agree with that. Whaley is not blameless on the Kolb decision.

 

I'm interested in what you think of the theory I postulated just above. It's just my conjecture as to the series of events from what I know and what I think.

Well, Chris Brown concurs with Whaley, so it's got to be true.

Actually Brown just referenced what Whaley said on Wgr.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Kelly the Dog

[Reed83HOF]

This is still a thing?

[26CornerBlitz]

This is still a thing?

[BADOLBILZ]

I think Buddy, like most Bills fans, was done with Fitz as a starter, but more important than that, it was leverage in the negotiations to say things like that if they wanted him to take a massive pay cut and have to fight for his job.

 

My theory, after learning quite some time ago that Marrone was a Nix guy and not a Whaley choice was that Nix was always going to hand the reigns over to Whaley. Everyone said it and agreed it just was a matter of when. Nix also said he would never retire unless he felt like the Bills had a franchise guy in place or a guy who could/would become the franchise guy. I think what likely happened was, as soon as they hired Marrone, and perhaps internally agreed that EJ would be their #1 pick over Geno or Nassib or Barkley, that Nix all but stepped down right before the draft or even somewhat during the draft. As long as he got the guy he wanted, which we know was EJ because there wasn't another QB taken, then he would let Whaley take over. Because the next couple high picks were Whaley kind of picks and not Nix, who loved those big southern boys. Woods and Kiko especially were not really Nix kind of players.

 

This also went along with the idea that Nix had his coach in place and his QB in place and he could ride off into the sunset. The Bills could then promote this new era of young President, young HC, and young GM, with a first round QB as the future and start all afresh. And Nix was completely okay with that idea.

I agree with that. Whaley is not blameless on the Kolb decision.

 

I know where you are coming from but the Kolb signing was the most hopeless attempt at feigning acquiring a QB that they could possibly have manufactured and it undermines their attempt to pretend that they were *forced* to start EJ.

[Kelly the Dog]

I know where you are coming from but the Kolb signing was the most hopeless attempt at feigning acquiring a QB that they could possibly have manufactured and it undermines their attempt to pretend that they were *forced* to start EJ.

 

I pretty much agree with that. Although again, there were slim pickins as I recall, as well as that was before Pettine and the Bills defense resurgence and the whole team looked like a mess.

[BADOLBILZ]

I pretty much agree with that. Although again, there were slim pickins as I recall, as well as that was before Pettine and the Bills defense resurgence and the whole team looked like a mess.

 

The TJax cut was the icing on the cake and would have been hard for any GM to explain to his fanbase given Kolb's history and the lack of experience going to camp.

 

He was a proven quality backup on a ridiculously cheap contract.

 

I know they said they wanted Kolb and EJ to get more snaps but I find it hard to believe that TJax wouldn't have had supporters in the lockerroom and it's real easy to connect the dots why he had to go.

 

The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.