Kelly the Dog Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Believe me, I'm not denying that the Pats acted in a suspicious way. I'm really just talking about the gamesmanship that goes on in the league. As my Pats fan friend said, the Falcons piping in noise equally violated the integrity of the game (if not more). They only suffered a $350K fine. But they didn't fight it, of course.We have been back and forth on this and you're obviously one of my favorite guys on this board. Please indulge me and answer this question, first in a one word yes or no, and second if you want to explain why. Do you genuinely believe that handing 12 balls to the officials before a Championship Game, asking them to be set at exactly 12.5 psi specifically, letting the officials check the balls no make sure they are all at 12.5, the legal minimum limit you just admitted to the officials is the legal limit, and then, when the officials left the balls alone for ten minutes, you took them all to a bathroom and let air out of them all to intentionally be under that limit. Is that "Gamesmanship" to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 That wouldn't surprise me at all. The NFLPA's position on this is no doubt motivated in no small part by a desire to weaken the disciplinary powers of the commissioner they ridiculously agreed to in the CBA. And of all the stands they'd want to take, they're never going to get a better on than defending Golden Boy against the Evil Commish. It would make sense. It wouldn't shock me if the NFLPA refused to press how much of a long shot this would be for Brady, just to get another crack in on Goddell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Please correct me if I'm wrong: my understanding is that the NFL directed the Pats to fire Jastremski and McNally, and that the Pats did not fire them themselves. My Pats fan friend at work said that this definitely the case, and that he had read the NFL constitution, which apparently gives the league the right to fire staff at that level. If I'm wrong, let me know..The Patriots claimed that was the case. Goodell immediately said that is flat wrong and we never told them to. I don't think the Patriots ever responded to that. That's not true. http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2015/05/20/roger-goodell-denies-adam-schefter-report-that-nfl-asked-patriots-to-suspend-jastremski-mcnally/ Edited July 29, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 #FREEOJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Please correct me if I'm wrong: my understanding is that the NFL directed the Pats to fire Jastremski and McNally, and that the Pats did not fire them themselves. My Pats fan friend at work said that this definitely the case, and that he had read the NFL constitution, which apparently gives the league the right to fire staff at that level. If I'm wrong, let me know. The only instance was a Schefter Facebook post in May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Please correct me if I'm wrong: my understanding is that the NFL directed the Pats to fire Jastremski and McNally, and that the Pats did not fire them themselves. My Pats fan friend at work said that this definitely the case, and that he had read the NFL constitution, which apparently gives the league the right to fire staff at that level. If I'm wrong, let me know. Yeah...the Patriots cooperate with that, but obstruct, cloud, and confuse every other damn thing about this. Your Pats fan friend is a moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 That wouldn't surprise me at all. The NFLPA's position on this is no doubt motivated in no small part by a desire to weaken the disciplinary powers of the commissioner they ridiculously agreed to in the CBA. And of all the stands they'd want to take, they're never going to get a better on than defending Golden Boy against the Evil Commish. No kidding, hard to take the side of domestic abuse and come out looking good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Here is Goodell denying that the NFL told the Patriots to fire them. http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2015/05/20/roger-goodell-denies-adam-schefter-report-that-nfl-asked-patriots-to-suspend-jastremski-mcnally/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 We have been back and forth on this and you're obviously one of my favorite guys on this board. Please indulge me and answer this question, first in a one word yes or no, and second if you want to explain why. Do you genuinely believe that handing 12 balls to the officials before a Championship Game, asking them to be set at exactly 12.5 psi specifically, letting the officials check the balls no make sure they are all at 12.5, the legal minimum limit you just admitted to the officials is the legal limit, and then, when the officials left the balls alone for ten minutes, you took them all to a bathroom and let air out of them all to intentionally be under that limit. Is that "Gamesmanship" to you? "Gamesmanship" derives from "gaming" - i.e., minor corner cuts that amount to minor cheating, more or less. So yes, I regard it as gamesmanship, not dissimilar to Jerry Rice's illegal use of stickum, Clay Bucholz using a foreign substance on his arm, etc. The number of the balls is irrelevant: if the tool you're using to "game" is on your body, then you can do it to every ball. If it's the ball itself you're using to "game," than you have to logically apply it to more than one. It's impossible to do that in MLB because they go through so many balls, so the "gaming" device is always in the possession of the player (foreign substance on body or bat that one owns). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 But how many other 'decent' (not Losman/Tuel-esque) QBs could have been great under the same circumstances No. You've mentioned Tuel and JP. There are MANY QB echelons between Tuel/JP and Brady. What about guys like Carson Palmer? What about Big Ben? What about Eli? Cam Newton? ANDY DALTON? Might any of them be "Bradyesque" with the advantages Tom Tom has enjoyed? I think Big Ben is a first ballot HOFer as it is. But based on my observation of how all these other QBs play the position, I would say NO, they too, wouldn't be Bradyesque at all. Are you guys suggesting that all the success Brady has had is owed to cheating? Really? I just can't agree with that. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Yeah...the Patriots cooperate with that, but obstruct, cloud, and confuse every other damn thing about this. Your Pats fan friend is a moron. He's not, actually. He's pretty damn smart and is pretty evenhanded about this. He thinks the phone issue is pretty big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Please correct me if I'm wrong: my understanding is that the NFL directed the Pats to fire Jastremski and McNally, and that the Pats did not fire them themselves. My Pats fan friend at work said that this definitely the case, and that he had read the NFL constitution, which apparently gives the league the right to fire staff at that level. If I'm wrong, let me know. After the Pats claimed that the NFL directed them to fire their employees, the NFL said that was false. I think that's all that was said on that matter, so we don't know which side is lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I have to disagree. If you think about OJ, the man thrilled everyone in the sports world for years with his talents on the field, breaking records and somehow making the Bills relevant again. He accelerates his fame with Hertz commercials, which leads him to doing some great comedy in a series of great Naked Gun movies. The man entertained all of us for years over years, from football to TV. He had ONE bad day and everyone gets on his case. This is some seriously funny schit, right here. GREAT stuff! GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Here is Goodell denying that the NFL told the Patriots to fire them. http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2015/05/20/roger-goodell-denies-adam-schefter-report-that-nfl-asked-patriots-to-suspend-jastremski-mcnally/ Depends on who one believes - Schefter or Goodell. I trust the former more, but it would be relevant if he responded. Did he respond? After the Pats claimed that the NFL directed them to fire their employees, the NFL said that was false. I think that's all that was said on that matter, so we don't know which side is lying. I thought that Schefter claimed this, and that he got it from a "league source." https://www.facebook.com/AdamSchefter/posts/957919684260673 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 What if he was one of the best as a result of things he and the Pats** did over his career to systemically cheat? Is he still a HOFer then? It's possible he may not get in his first year of eligibility. I think some member of the Board of Electors may want to deprive him of that honor as a slap on the wrist for his cheating. But he'll get in. His career accomplishments are too stellar to ignore. Just my guess. Here's another thing I wonder: will his play suffer this year because he's bothered by a rock-hard football? Based on the texts we've seen, ball under-inflation was a big thing to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Here's what Brady*** would be doing if Goodell lifted his suspension: http://youtu.be/gcZPWkNY6x8?t=1m35s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Your Pats fan friend is a moron. Reading a bunch of the comments in deflategate stories, one gets the sense that many Patriots** fans behave like a battered wife. You don't understand. We've been together for years. And he would never hurt me. It's actually my fault for letting my face get in the way of his fists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJDK Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Can't they see Brady's texts from the two schmuck's cell phones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Are you guys suggesting that all the success Brady has had is owed to cheating? Really? I just can't agree with that. GO BILLS!!! I wouldn't. Objectively...even though I hate Brady, he's a hall of famer. But I wouldn't vote him in on the first ballot. "Conduct detrimental to the league." Of course, I didn't think Thurman should get in on the first ballot either, for his sulk in Superbowl XXVIII. Yes, I'd be a really tough judge...but there's more to the game than the stat line. If you're a truly elite player, you get over your mistakes and play. And you don't cheat, and don't try to bull **** your way out of it when you're caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Are you guys suggesting that all the success Brady has had is owed to cheating? Really? I just can't agree with that. In bringing up other talented quarterbacks, I thought I was doing the opposite of what you're asking here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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