eball Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I agree he's inspirational ingeneral, but as pertains to QBs (and this discussion), he was a bit a mess--particularly last season. He should stay away from the offense in general. The Jets were a dumpster fire last season -- and even then, he had them playing hard right up until W17 when they pasted the Fish. His QBs were not good, and all the inspiration in the world wasn't going to change that. As it pertains to this discussion, Rex will be optimistic and instill confidence in whichever QB is chosen to start the season...it will be up to that QB to perform, and if he doesn't I wouldn't expect Rex or any other coach to stay with him. If EJ is the "chosen guy" he will likely enter the season with more confidence than he had the last two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I know it's subtle, but people here who are still open minded about EJ, are just that... they want to see if he'll develop in a (theoretically) better system. I doubt you'll see too many defending EJ if he doesn't show any development this year. I think this is where a lot of EJ supporters are, myself included. We saw flashes of great play, such as some of his two minute drills and his second Jets game but we haven't forgotten some of the embarrassing games. We just know that sounds shockingly like Tannehill's first two years and now that guy is making bank. But Marrone got a raw, athletically gifted QB with accuracy issues and then decided to build the Gulf Coast Offense that Payton uses...only Payton had Brees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Human sacrifices, dogs and cats living together... Mas hysteria!Love me some Ghostbusters....WHY remake it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Yes he does. The same way Marrone gets credit for the Pettine and Schwartz hires. That was the last thing the strong Marrone supporters say on this board. We don't hear that anymore. Fyi, IMO Pettine and Schwatz came here because of the D and to launch themsleves to HCs. The D was and is that awesome and appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 That was the last thing the strong Marrone supporters say on this board. We don't hear that anymore. Fyi, IMO Pettine and Schwatz came here because of the D and to launch themsleves to HCs. The D was and is that awesome and appealing. Pettine came because the D was historically bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Handcuffed, maybe, but Marrone didn't send EJ to the bench in his rookie season, injuries did. My bad you are correct although the end result was the benching in season 2. Moron changed what was working and screwed with it. THEN in December Moron even further "simplified" the play calling. a recipe for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Pettine came because the D was historically bad?The D was bad previously because they were poorly coached with tons of talent. They were underperforming before Pettine and Pettine knew that. It was a rare opportunity. Edited July 17, 2015 by Manther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) What's all the hubbub about EJs accuracy? Robert Quinn chart shows that EJ was actually pretty accurate with the exception of his throws outside the hashes. http://billsmafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ej-in-out.jpg and ill say, i still think he was told to try to locate the ball in spots that were hard for the defender when taking the downfield outside shots. his placement was pretty consistent from my own gut reaction -- it was just consistently very conservative in a "if the WR makes a great play or a flag comes out, cool, but no risk for turnover" way. very rare were the aggressive downfield shots where a qb could be described as "letting it rip" but we did see a fair number of throws right on the sideline where it was tough to make a play. Edited July 17, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 and ill say, i still think he was told to try to locate the ball in spots that were hard for the defender when taking the downfield outside shots. his placement was pretty consistent from my own gut reaction -- it was just consistently very conservative in a "if the WR makes a great play or a flag comes out, cool, but no risk for turnover" way. very rare were the aggressive downfield shots where a qb could be described as "letting it rip" but we did see a fair number of throws right on the sideline where it was tough to make a play. Agree with the lack of down field long passes in 2013. Two or three an entire game is not stretching the field and hoping for a flag or fantastic catch. One might say similar in 2014. maybe bumped up by maybe 1 more per game all we have heard about is speed speed speed, yet the speed was never utilized. Could be why the Watkins pick didn't sit well with Moron (so the rumor says) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) There was at least one downfield throw that was perfectly placed and Grimes just made a hell of a play on it. It was to Sammy. Doesn't mean anything more than that's one that could have gone his way based on his part in the play, but worth noting. Edited July 17, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Could be why the Watkins pick didn't sit well with Moron (so the rumor says) It does seem like there was a lot of that going around, and it wasn't just Sammy. That was a big, dark dog house that kept a lot of guys from helping the team the way they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 That was the last thing the strong Marrone supporters say on this board. We don't hear that anymore. Fyi, IMO Pettine and Schwatz came here because of the D and to launch themsleves to HCs. The D was and is that awesome and appealing. How does that detract from the credit Marrone deserves for the hires? Did they just turn up and say "Hello Mr Doug Marrone I am coming here to be your defensive coordinator because it could be good for my career"...... Or did Marrone not have some input into identifying them? The fact that the talent here made it easier to attract good people is neither here nor there really... we had a lot of that talent when we attracted Wannstedt. Marrone identified two good defensive coordinators and when people get so blinded by their hate for him that they try and downplay that they discredit their argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Running the ball 70+% of the time on first down is insane, unless maybe you have a historically great running game. (Like maybe Dallas last year?) I noticed this just watching the games - it was incredibly frustrating to see us run the ball seemingly every first down. Obviously it wasn't literally every first down, but it seemed like it. Those first-down runs were generally unsuccessful, but we just kept on calling them over and over. I'm pleasantly surprised to see that, even during the run-dominated quagmire, Manuel's first-down passing was pretty good. His passing overall wasn't up to par, but maybe he can get up to average/passable just with improved playcalling. I.e., still be the wildly inconsistent guy we've seen through 15 games, but have more success just from being put in better positions. Of course, the big caveat is sample size - when you only pass 30% of the time on 1st down, there's not a lot of 1st down passes to draw a conclusion from. Still, better good results in a small sample than bad results in a small sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 How does that detract from the credit Marrone deserves for the hires? Did they just turn up and say "Hello Mr Doug Marrone I am coming here to be your defensive coordinator because it could be good for my career"...... Or did Marrone not have some input into identifying them? The fact that the talent here made it easier to attract good people is neither here nor there really... we had a lot of that talent when we attracted Wannstedt. Marrone identified two good defensive coordinators and when people get so blinded by their hate for him that they try and downplay that they discredit their argument. I think the point is that just proves how awful Wannestedt was and how Gailey underestimated how long he had been away from the NFL. The Bills' DC was one of the best job opportunities in the league the last 2 years. Pettine inherited a defense that had no where to go but up. Schwartz inherited a much better defense but stil lwas bad agaisnt the run. But these were perfect opportunites that almost any non moron could do well in. It's very similar to the situation Roman is in. If he can help show real improvement in the offense, he will be a head coaching candidate. And I've said my piece about EJ. He certainly has his flaws but the offensive coaching staff he had his first 2 years was a joke. To refresh, rookie year OCs: Luck - Bruce Arians Brady - Charlie Weis Bridgewater - Norv Turner Manuel - Hackett/ Marrone Really, really looking forward to camp and hoping Manuel can react more than just thinking. Play action on first downs could result in some big plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) There was at least one downfield throw that was perfectly placed and Grimes just made a hell of a play on it. It was to Sammy. Doesn't mean anything more than that's one that could have gone his way based on his part in the play, but worth noting. it was a nice throw. i was getting at 2013 when there was often a complaint that the ball was located right at the sideline (and sometimes ended up a couple yards outside). it just seemed like he was being instructed to give the WR a tiny window on the sideline, that took the turnover out completely if it was off by a yard or two (ie still pretty accurate, but would become uncatchable instead of a competition for the ball possibly). we had a ton of threads on those balls landing slightly out of bounds, and i dont think it was a case of being erratic and purely a coincidence that a lot ended there. Edited July 17, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 it was a nice throw. i was getting at 2014 when there was often a complaint that the ball was located right at the sideline (and sometimes ended up a couple yards outside). it just seemed like he was being instructed to give the WR a tiny window on the sideline, that took the turnover out completely if it was off by a yard or two (ie still pretty accurate, but would become uncatchable instead of a competition for the ball possibly). we had a ton of threads on those balls landing slightly out of bounds, and i dont think it was a case of being erratic and purely a coincidence that a lot ended there. He was coached to take the aggression out of his game. That said, Manuel plays too cautiously. He needs more FU. I think he should punch out one of the reporters at camp. It will set the tone nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) He was coached to take the aggression out of his game. That said, Manuel plays too cautiously. He needs more FU. I think he should punch out one of the reporters at camp. It will set the tone nicely. Punch them out and threaten to kill his family? Edited July 17, 2015 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Punch them out and threaten kill his family? That may be a little extreme. Only if it involved beach chairs. Beach chairs are life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Running the ball 70+% of the time on first down is insane, unless maybe you have a historically great running game. (Like maybe Dallas last year?) I noticed this just watching the games - it was incredibly frustrating to see us run the ball seemingly every first down. Obviously it wasn't literally every first down, but it seemed like it. Those first-down runs were generally unsuccessful, but we just kept on calling them over and over. I'm pleasantly surprised to see that, even during the run-dominated quagmire, Manuel's first-down passing was pretty good. His passing overall wasn't up to par, but maybe he can get up to average/passable just with improved playcalling. I.e., still be the wildly inconsistent guy we've seen through 15 games, but have more success just from being put in better positions. Of course, the big caveat is sample size - when you only pass 30% of the time on 1st down, there's not a lot of 1st down passes to draw a conclusion from. Still, better good results in a small sample than bad results in a small sample. #2 in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 #2 in the NFL. What you do in the bathroom is your own business, buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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