Article: E.J. is beating out Cassel and Taylor in OTA's

[GunnerBill]

I do get the sense on what is being said and seen though that Cassel is disappointing so far. The hope that we were getting the 2010 Matt Cassel (I thought that was our best option too) seems to be slipping away. He needs a major step up in camp otherwise I think EJ being the starter which I'd have put at unlikely 3 weeks ago is a realistic prospect.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

 

 

Sorry.

 

Also, I posted the wrong bad game.

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014092802/2014/REG4/bills@texans?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gameinfo|contentId%3A0ap3000000404139&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

 

Orton clearly wasn't the answer. Agreed.

 

21 - 44, for 245 yards. 2 TD 2 PICK, 5.6 yards/attempt. 47 % completions? That's pretty bad IMO.

yes, we can all agree that it was a "bad" game with the 1 pick 6 (+1) Yet the team lost by 6.

 

What of the super stars like Brady** when he has had 4 INT games (3 or 4 times and another few 3 INT games).

 

what of the 1 game where EJ was leading the Bills on drives (maybe) back to back vs Atlanta in T.O. when 1st Stevie fumbled, then Chandler fumbled. is that EJ's fault that he didn't end up with a 5-5 rookie record?

Rational objective thinking is not allowed my good man

 

What’s so dishonest about pointing out that Marrone was wrong on just about everything else, so why wouldn’t it be an honest question to wonder if he was wrong on Manuel?

Today’s news was a little tough for fans like you who have this false narrative cemented in your heads that Manuel is garbage. That Marrone was a fairly competent coach who did all he could do for EJ and he had to save the team. In all honestly, Marrone did not know what he was doing on offense and it effected everyone on offense…the line, the RBs, the WRs, the TEs, the QBs.

Ironically, Marrone’s benching of Manuel probably saved EJ. Because Marrone’s horrible offensive schemes and game plans were never going to put a QB in a consistent position to have success. IMO, if Manuel takes off this year Marrone will be forced to go back to the college game or stay at a low level positional coaching spot in the NFL.

 

[Rocky Landing]

I was in favor of the benching at the time also. I also believe that Marrone had no interest in trying to help a rookie QB develop and wanted a vet that he could just put out there, tell him to do what he wanted and let the chips fall where they may.

 

EJ bad and Orton bad are basically the same. A bad game is a bad game if it ends up in the L column. Both players had good and bad games was why I pointed out some of Orton's stats.

 

As I said earlier, we still don't know what EJ can/can't do but having a bad game (EJ bad in his first 14 starts) doesn't really tell anything. Everyone wants him to be at least at Tannehill's level. Tanny had 3 games in his first 16 starts that were sub 45% completion. They stuck with it and at least have a game manager/decent at QB. Now we have to wait and see with EJ but we've already wasted a year because a coach likely wanted to pad his resume.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this extremely weird statement. Whether you are knocking Marrone for wanting to win for the wrong reasons, or you are suggesting that he should have played EJ, knowing that he would lose more, for the sake of his development, or that the year was wasted because our coach was being selfish by wanting to win, or the season shouldn't have been about winning... or what???

 

You're upset because Marrone wanted to "pad his resume" with wins? Whaaaa???

[1billsfan]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this extremely weird statement. Whether you are knocking Marrone for wanting to win for the wrong reasons, or you are suggesting that he should have played EJ, knowing that he would lose more, for the sake of his development, or that the year was wasted because our coach was being selfish by wanting to win, or the season shouldn't have been about winning... or what???

 

You're upset because Marrone wanted to "pad his resume" with wins? Whaaaa???

 

It sounds like he's inferring that Marrone had an eye on what he hoped was a better job than head coach of the Bills. Most notably was the Jets HC job where everyone knew Rex was gone at the end of the year.

 

In the end, Marrone was clueless on what to do on offense at the professional level. The professional level defense destroys teams on offense that are very predictable and play close to the vest football.

 

The question should really no longer be about Marrone's reasons for benching Manuel, it should start being more about his overall competency.

Edited June 19, 2015 by 1billsfan

[FireChan]

 

What’s so dishonest about pointing out that Marrone was wrong on just about everything else, so why wouldn’t it be an honest question to wonder if he was wrong on Manuel?

Today’s news was a little tough for fans like you who have this false narrative cemented in your heads that Manuel is garbage. That Marrone was a fairly competent coach who did all he could do for EJ and he had to save the team. In all honestly, Marrone did not know what he was doing on offense and it effected everyone on offense…the line, the RBs, the WRs, the TEs, the QBs.

Ironically, Marrone’s benching of Manuel probably saved EJ. Because Marrone’s horrible offensive schemes and game plans were never going to put a QB in a consistent position to have success. IMO, if Manuel takes off this year Marrone will be forced to go back to the college game or stay at a low level positional coaching spot in the NFL.

 

He didn't point that out. He conjured up some ridiculous statement as a bastardization of an argument. He twisted someone else's words into an indefensible position. It's dishonest arguing. As an aside, it's also very petulant sounding. Can't you easily imagine a child saying the same phrase?

 

You're right. There is zero reason to question any decision making by Doug Marrone.

 

This line is hilarious though.

Today’s news was a little tough for fans like you who have this false narrative cemented in your heads that Manuel is garbage.

 

Misplaced righteous indignation is always comical.

 

Would you have felt better about EJ if we stayed put and took them?

Huh?

 

It sounds like he's inferring that Marrone had an eye on what he hoped was a better job than head coach of the Bills. Most notably was the Jets HC job where everyone knew Rex was gone at the end of the year.

 

In the end, Marrone was clueless on what to do on offense at the professional level. The professional level defense destroys teams on offense that are very predictable and play close to the vest football.

 

The question should really no longer be about Marrone's reasons for benching Manuel, it should start being more about his overall competency.

Why? Besides conflating arguments in order to shield EJ. Here's a simple truth. Bad coaches can make correct decisions.

Edited June 19, 2015 by FireChan

[LeGOATski]

 

Seantrel Henderson was the one standing there blocking nothing - watch 66

 

Amazing

[Rocky Landing]

 

It sounds like he's inferring that Marrone had an eye on what he hoped was a better job than head coach of the Bills. Most notably was the Jets HC job where everyone knew Rex was gone at the end of the year.

 

In the end, Marrone was clueless on what to do on offense at the professional level. The professional level defense destroys teams on offense that are very predictable and play close to the vest football.

 

The question should really no longer be about Marrone's reasons for benching Manuel, it should start being more about his overall competency.

I don't disagree with that. But the "pad his resume" line is crazy. Personally, I've always been of the mind that we should play to win every game, and in so doing, build a winning culture. For me, that included the week17 game vs the Pats*. There's only one reason to win. There's lots of reasons to lose, and I don't like any of them.

[1billsfan]

I don't disagree with that. But the "pad his resume" line is crazy. Personally, I've always been of the mind that we should play to win every game, and in so doing, build a winning culture. For me, that included the week17 game vs the Pats*. There's only one reason to win. There's lots of reasons to lose, and I don't like any of them.

 

If the Bills had very good offensive coaches in place then the proper call IMO would have been to keep EJ in there despite the roughness in his play and ride it out. That's the thing, very good offensive coaches put their full trust in their young players and young QBs specifically because that's how you eventually gain the edge over an NFL defense. EJ was never trusted by Marrone. That's poison to a young QB. Both coaching and putting trust in players is a huge key to success IMO.

[The Wiz]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this extremely weird statement. Whether you are knocking Marrone for wanting to win for the wrong reasons, or you are suggesting that he should have played EJ, knowing that he would lose more, for the sake of his development, or that the year was wasted because our coach was being selfish by wanting to win, or the season shouldn't have been about winning... or what???

 

You're upset because Marrone wanted to "pad his resume" with wins? Whaaaa???

Think of it this way. Would you prefer EJ play the rest of the season and know for a fact that he is not what we are looking for at QB and suffer a 6-10, 7-9, whatever it may have been season, or have him get benched to get more wins for one season only to have the same QB (EJ) possibly be the starter the following season?

 

After the run of playoff-less years that we have had, I'd rather find out for sure that my QB is or isn't worth playing him. Then they could have made a harder play in FA for another QB instead of having to trade for meh cassel.

 

Either way, yes, you lost, but at least you know why you lost and you aren't questioning x,y and z to yourself.

Edited June 19, 2015 by The Wiz

[FireChan]

Think of it this way. Would you prefer EJ play the rest of the season and know for a fact that he is not what we are looking for at QB and suffer a 6-10, 7-9, whatever it may have been season, or have him get benched to get more wins for one season only to have the same QB (EJ) possibly be the starter the following season?

 

After the run of playoff-less years that we have had, I'd rather find out for sure that my QB is or isn't worth playing him. Then they could have made a harder play in FA for another QB instead of having to trade for meh cassel.

That's not what would have happened. Short of a Blaine Gabbert-esque season, we still wouldn't "know for a fact" anything. We'd just think he kinda sucked, and we'd go into year 3 with a full competition (sound familiar)?

 

And I think many fans discount the morale boost of a winning season. 4-12 teams don't turn into 11-5 teams over night, short of finding a QB playing at a franchise level. I believe we have a better chance of making the playoffs this year because we went 9-7 last year.

Edited June 19, 2015 by FireChan

[C.Biscuit97]

That's not what would have happened. Short of a Blaine Gabbert-esque season, we still wouldn't "know for a fact" anything. We'd just think he kinda sucked, and we'd go into year 3 with a full competition (sound familiar)?

 

And I think many fans discount the morale boost of a winning season. 4-12 teams don't turn into 11-5 teams over night, short of finding a QB playing at a franchise level. I believe we have a better chance of making the playoffs this year because we went 9-7 last year.

Oh please. We didn't win anything because of Orton. In fact, Miami was the only head to head opponent EJ and Orton faced. What happened there?

 

The only bigger joke than Marrone is the people who defend him. It's going to be funny to see you backpedal when guys like Spiller, Wood, Glenn, Kujo, etc. miraculously become better players without him.

[Rocky Landing]

Think of it this way. Would you prefer EJ play the rest of the season and know for a fact that he is not what we are looking for at QB and suffer a 6-10, 7-9, whatever it may have been season, or have him get benched to get more wins for one season only to have the same QB (EJ) possibly be the starter the following season?

 

After the run of playoff-less years that we have had, I'd rather find out for sure that my QB is or isn't worth playing him. Then they could have made a harder play in FA for another QB instead of having to trade for meh cassel.

 

Either way, yes, you lost, but at least you know why you lost and you aren't questioning x,y and z to yourself.

I'll go for a winning culture. Every time.

[The Wiz]

That's not what would have happened. Short of a Blaine Gabbert-esque season, we still wouldn't "know for a fact" anything. We'd just think he kinda sucked, and we'd go into year 3 with a full competition (sound familiar)?

 

And I think many fans discount the morale boost of a winning season. 4-12 teams don't turn into 11-5 teams over night, short of finding a QB playing at a franchise level. I believe we have a better chance of making the playoffs this year because we went 9-7 last year.

Saying because of last year is eerily similar to saying "next year". I'm sure there were plenty of teams that went 9-7 that went 4-12 the following year. Or even teams that were 4-12 going 9-7.

 

"Know for a fact" it a general statement. Would you prefer EJ play and go 4-12 and look like crap or go .500+ and look like he can actually win games?

I'll go for a winning culture. Every time.

So you would take a winning season 1 year without a playoff appearance if it meant 2 more years of sub .500?

Edited June 19, 2015 by The Wiz

[FireChan]

Oh please. We didn't win anything because of Orton. In fact, Miami was the only head to head opponent EJ and Orton faced. What happened there?

 

The only bigger joke than Marrone is the people who defend him. It's going to be funny to see you backpedal when guys like Spiller, Wood, Glenn, Kujo, etc. miraculously become better players without him.

Kyle Orton threw more TD's in 14 games than EJ has in his whole career. And Orton stunk. 9-7.

 

Speaking of jokes, where's Maybin and Jauron at?

 

Saying because of last year is eerily similar to saying "next year". I'm sure there were plenty of teams that went 9-7 that went 4-12 the following year. Or even teams that were 4-12 going 9-7.

 

"Know for a fact" it a general statement. Would you prefer EJ play and go 4-12 and look like crap or go .500+ and look like he can actually win games?

So you would take a winning season 1 year without a playoff appearance if it meant 2 more years of sub .500?

Show me them.

 

Is your second question asking me if I preferred EJ Manuel playing well and winning games over him sucking and losing games?

Edited June 19, 2015 by FireChan

[Solomon Grundy]

Ryan Tannehill showed more promise his first two years.

He was also drafted higher. As the third QB.

Tannehill showed more promise? Why, because he played more and you were able to see a better body of work? Or was his stats that much better than EJs? I remember reading articles from Miami questioning Tannehill's his future. I personally am glad that Marrone benched EJ last year for the simple fact that he was playing behind a bad offensive line and would have probably damaged him physically and mentally. I know the tweets from Sal and Joe B about EJs play today may have discouraged the anti EJ ensemble that's gathered on this board. And I'm aware that he scorched the 2nd team defense today, but I took two things from their observations. One, why is that Tyrod and Cassel weren't able to succeed against them? Two, was the offensive line able to provide better protection for Manuel in order for him to have such a good showing?

[LeGOATski]

Kyle Orton threw more TD's in 14 games than EJ has in his whole career. And Orton stunk. 9-7.

Yeah. Orton just wasn't afraid to take a chance. Same with Fitz before him. EJ just has to let loose. That's the hurdle he couldn't get over last year. If he can do that, we'll see an average passing game, I think.

[Solomon Grundy]

Kyle Orton threw more TD's in 14 games than EJ has in his whole career. And Orton stunk. 9-7.

 

Speaking of jokes, where's Maybin and Jauron at?

 

 

Show me them.

 

Is your second question asking me if I preferred EJ Manuel playing well and winning games over him sucking and losing games?

 

EJs career is 14 games

[NoSaint]

Kyle Orton threw more TD's in 14 games than EJ has in his whole career. And Orton stunk. 9-7.

 

Speaking of jokes, where's Maybin and Jauron at?

 

Show me them.

 

Is your second question asking me if I preferred EJ Manuel playing well and winning games over him sucking and losing games?

Orton was 12 but that was quite the convoluted way to say orton has 2 more tds in 2 fewer games.... I suppose that in a portion of a season vs an entire career sounds like a bigger gap though. Especially when you don't quantify the number of tds Edited June 19, 2015 by NoSaint

[The Wiz]

Kyle Orton threw more TD's in 14 games than EJ has in his whole career. And Orton stunk. 9-7.

 

Speaking of jokes, where's Maybin and Jauron at?

 

Show me them.

 

Is your second question asking me if I preferred EJ Manuel playing well and winning games over him sucking and losing games?

Orton is expected to throw more TD's after being in the NFL for 10 years and have been a starting QB before. BTW, What 14 games are you referring to? Orton only started 12 games.

 

Show you them? Bucs went 5-11, 11-5, 4-12, 9-7, 9-7, 3-13, 10-6, 4-12. And that's just one team. Miami went 1-15 then 11-5. If you want me to look up more from the last decade I can but I think already made my point.

 

And no, the second question is would you prefer EJ to be bench for someone to finish with a winning season or to play EJ (possibly finish with a losing season) and know what EJ is/isn't capable of?

Edited June 19, 2015 by The Wiz

[C.Biscuit97]

Kyle Orton threw more TD's in 14 games than EJ has in his whole career. And Orton stunk. 9-7.

 

Speaking of jokes, where's Maybin and Jauron at?

 

Show me them.

 

Is your second question asking me if I preferred EJ Manuel playing well and winning games over him sucking and losing games?

EJ in his career (14 games over 2 seasons) has 19 total tds. Orton, in his 10th season, had 19 total tds. He also had a lower qbr than EJ did as a rookie.

 

And Maybin is hanging out with Orton out of the NFL while Jauron has just as good of a shot of being a head coach again as Marrone does.