Bills Teammates Rave about Tyrod Taylor

[dulles]

Oh, I agree. I won't be upset at all if any QB plays really well for us, though my hope is much more for EJ or Tyrod just due to age and also skillset for Roman.

Definitely agree. I'd lean heavily toward the younger guys for similar reasons. As a long-suffering Bills fan, I can see Cassel leading us to the playoffs only to have his career ended like Kurt Warner's in that playoff game vs. NO. That was one of the scarier moments ever. The close ups of his face afterward were startling. Anyway...I digress...younger guys.

 

I also really like Roman's creativity.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

If he was invited, he probably couldn't make it since he worked for four months with Steve DeBerg and then Hogan in NJ.

 

According to the article, they were all working out at "Bommarito Performance Systems" - does one need to be invited to work out at a facility offering performance training? Or do you just ring up and pay?

It also sounds as though it was written about the 2014 off-season since it talks about Taylor "capitalizing on the final year of his rookie contract"

[JESSEFEFFER]

Here's an interesting tidbit regarding Orton last year.

 

Orton's first 4 games:

95-141-1128-9-3

67.4% completion, 8.0 ypa, 104.0 QBR

 

Orton's final 8 games:

192-306-1890-9-7

62.7% completion, 6.1 ypa, 80.4 QBR

Or this:

 

vs. NYJ ........................ 34/49 for 468, 6 TDs and 0 ints for a rating of 139.3

 

vs. the other 10 ........... 253/398 for 2550, 12 TDs and 10 ints for a rating of 81.3 and the Bills averaged 18.3 ppg.

 

Kyle fattened his stats against the Jets and the other 83% of the time he produced like EJ (passer rating wise.) When you factor in sacks and the lost yardage and the potential for rushing yardage, EJ would come out ahead.

 

"Kyle gives us the best chance to win" is the big fallacy of the Bills' 2014 season but it did give EJ a chance to Cntl ALt Delete on his career path.

[moshermw]

I'm just looking forward to the clever nicknames that will be popping up for Tyrod's many endorsement deals. Tsquared, Double T, Touchdown Taylor and on on on. . . It's fun and on topic.

It was T-Mobile at VT.

[moshermw]

 

I think relying upon whatever player statements happen to get quoted by news media is sort of lower down on the accuracy level of prediction than reading tea leaves or using a Ouija board but that's just me. We don't know what questions were asked, we don't know what was said and not reported by a guy trying to "spin" up a story, and we don't know how what was said reflects a players real opinions.

 

I'll be happy with whichever QB shows best in training camp and preseason being our starter.

 

That said, I would like to know where it is documented that Flacco would not allow TT to play with the 1s in any game or practice or that they beat "Team Flacco"

Can you share links, please? Or explain your source and basis?

 

QB throw against D, not against other QB, right? How does this make sense he "beat Team Flacco"? Was he playing against the Ravens 1's on D or the 2's?

 

I am also curious where any of the players and coaches have said "TT is the real deal". He has won praise for athleticism (no surprise), his throwing motion (good, he's worked on it), and accuracy (also good to hear) but it's a long step from praising a guy's accuracy and throwing motion in shorts in OTAs and saying "he's the real deal" as an NFL QB, which is something that can only be seen when the pads go on and it's live hitting. The quotes I've heard from Rex are more measured.

 

Easy one first:

 

Head Coach John Harbaugh split up his team during Monday’s practice at M&T Bank Stadium. There was Team Tyrod and Team Flacco, with the second- and first-team offenses squaring off in an 11-on-11 scrimmage. Team Tyrod won.

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Tyrod-Taylor-Impressing-In-Training-Camp/e7667379-51a8-4aaf-a0ad-3421da5a247c

 

The second one is harder to prove with any actual article. Best way to prove is to challenge you to find me TT stats with him playing as Ravens QB and clearly with the rest of the #1 offense in a game or pre-season game. Not an accident that it might be really hard for you. The reason is from admittedly not revealable sources. Shaky...I know. but go for it on the challenge.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Easy one first:

 

Head Coach John Harbaugh split up his team during Monday’s practice at M&T Bank Stadium. There was Team Tyrod and Team Flacco, with the second- and first-team offenses squaring off in an 11-on-11 scrimmage. Team Tyrod won.

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Tyrod-Taylor-Impressing-In-Training-Camp/e7667379-51a8-4aaf-a0ad-3421da5a247c

 

The second one is harder to prove with any actual article. Best way to prove is to challenge you to find me TT stats with him playing as Ravens QB and clearly with the rest of the #1 offense in a game or pre-season game. Not an accident that it might be really hard for you. The reason is from admittedly not revealable sources. Shaky...I know. but go for it on the challenge.

 

Hey, Mo. Thanks for the response and the link. I'm afraid it isn't enough info for me to vet your conclusion - if it's 11-on-11, and Team Tyrod drew the #2s and #3s D, hard to say if Tyrod > Flacco or D against Tyrod << D against Flacco, y'know what I mean? One would have to see Flacco vs Taylor against the same D to draw any conclusions of relative quality, not?

 

I believe you that Taylor never played with the Ravens #1s in preseason or reg. season. That's the typical fate of the backup QB - gets put in with the bubble guys in preseason and along with the 2nd string in "mop up time" with the playoffs already locked down. What's farfetched to me and can't be accepted without a better level of proof is that Flacco had anything to do with that, because it's SOP across the league wherever there's an entrenched starter, and because Harbaugh has always seemed to run a reasonably (but not overly) tight ship and catering to one player's ego is one way to punch a hole in that.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

There are but few things that are worse for an intelligent and energetic internet forum than a Troll with Self Control.

 

 

 

Imo

[dave mcbride]

Or this:

 

vs. NYJ ........................ 34/49 for 468, 6 TDs and 0 ints for a rating of 139.3

 

vs. the other 10 ........... 253/398 for 2550, 12 TDs and 10 ints for a rating of 81.3 and the Bills averaged 18.3 ppg.

 

Kyle fattened his stats against the Jets and the other 83% of the time he produced like EJ (passer rating wise.) When you factor in sacks and the lost yardage and the potential for rushing yardage, EJ would come out ahead.

 

"Kyle gives us the best chance to win" is the big fallacy of the Bills' 2014 season but it did give EJ a chance to Cntl ALt Delete on his career path.

Why would you ever delete the good games from total stats? Are you aware that the Jets' defense finished 6th overall in yardage given up last season? Edited June 5, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Why would you ever delete the good games from total stats? Are you aware that the Jets' defense finished 6th overall in yardage given up last season?

 

Dave, I agree with you but it goes with the philosophy that states "oh, QB XYZ isn't that good, he just fattens his stats in garbage time" - a comment I've never understood, since the difference between "garbage time" and "a thrilling comeback victory" is determined by the final outcome and why wouldn't you want a QB who performs well and keeps fighting to the end?

 

Stats are stats - misunderstood and misused sometimes, but let's not cherry-pick the ones we like or dislike without a really good reason. We could probably choose a reason to delete a couple of Orton's bad games too - hmmm let's see, how about the win against GB ('cuz Green Bay) and the loss against the Browns ('cuz Pettine unfair advantage)? I'm not suggesting we do so, just pointing out to all that selectivity goes both ways.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Why would you ever delete the good games from total stats? Are you aware that the Jets' defense finished 6th overall in yardage given up last season?

 

Ever heard of game splits? Stats by quarter, by down and distance, score differential, home/away, grass/turf, formation, etc, etc. etc, This is not deletion so much as looking at production in isolation. How and where it occurs. People complain about "garbage time" stats all the time. Kicking the crap out the Jets is much the same and having 2 great games does tend to skew the view. Beware the mean and embrace the median.

[chris heff]

Oh, I agree. I won't be upset at all if any QB plays really well for us, though my hope is much more for EJ or Tyrod just due to age and also skillset for Roman.

Before I opened this thread I was thinking the same thing. The worst thing that could happen is Cassel winning the job. Not because Cassel sucks, but because it means one of these young QBs is not the answer.

[BuffaloMatt]

It was T-Mobile at VT.

College nickname good. Pro nickname has to be better!

College nickname good. Pro nickname has to be better!

Especially, for a NFL starting QB!

[dave mcbride]

 

Ever heard of game splits? Stats by quarter, by down and distance, score differential, home/away, grass/turf, formation, etc, etc. etc, This is not deletion so much as looking at production in isolation. How and where it occurs. People complain about "garbage time" stats all the time. Kicking the crap out the Jets is much the same and having 2 great games does tend to skew the view. Beware the mean and embrace the median.

Um ... I sure have heard of them. The problem with your argument is that by cherrypicking the non-Jets games to arrive at an assessment of Orton (81.3), you appear to be advocating dispensing with the Jets games altogether. I don't understand the rest of what you're saying, incidentally. I don't know what you mean by "embrace the median"--that just sounds like statistical mumbo jumbo to me. I'm also not sure what stats by quarter and the like have to do with his strong performances against a quality opponent (the Jets defense).

Edited June 5, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Ever heard of game splits? Stats by quarter, by down and distance, score differential, home/away, grass/turf, formation, etc, etc. etc, This is not deletion so much as looking at production in isolation. How and where it occurs. People complain about "garbage time" stats all the time. Kicking the crap out the Jets is much the same and having 2 great games does tend to skew the view. Beware the mean and embrace the median.

 

Except that the Jets games were not Orton's only great games, and in fact by some metrics such as completion percentage, the first Jets game can hardly be called "great" - only 10 completions, 58.8%, seriously? I mean, he's credited with 4 TD but be real, one of them was handed to him by the D at the 1 yd line and another was a short pass where the Jets lost contain on Watkins. The other two were nice plays By a number of QB metrics, the Detroit, Minn, and New England games were better for Orton.

 

Point is, if you look at Orton's game logs and the box scores, there's no reason to paint both Jets games as outliers that have a rational basis for being excluded.

[Jauronimo]

Um ... I sure have heard of them. The problem with your argument is that by cherrypicking the non-Jets games to arrive at an assessment of Orton (81.3), you appear to be advocating dispensing with the Jets games altogether. I don't understand the rest of what you're saying, incidentally. I don't know what you mean by "embrace the median"--that just sounds like statistical mumbo jumbo to me. I'm also not sure what stats by quarter and the like have to do with his strong performances against a quality opponent (the Jets defense).

Mean can be skewed heavily by factoring in outliers where as median is far less sensitive to extremes. The Jets D is quality but even the best defense is in trouble when your QBs combine for 6 (or was it 7?) turnovers and your offense can't stay on the field.

 

That said, I have no idea what game splits are going to reveal that will distinguish two lackluster QBs from one another. With 16 games per season, I think adjusting for "garbage time", great performances, and poor performances is a tricky exercise.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Jauronimo

[Hapless Bills Fan]

College nickname good. Pro nickname has to be better!

Especially, for a NFL starting QB!

 

Because like, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Russ Wilson, and Andrew Luck all have cool Pro nicknames in common and a cool nickname so helped the last B'lo QB we tagged with one?? I'll be happy if one of our QB play approaches within sniffing distance of any of the aforementioned and we can call him Matt, EJ, or Tyrod.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Hopeful

[dave mcbride]

Guys, I understand what the median and the mean are. I really do. I just think the term is invoked to here as a stand-in for actual analysis. It's the equivalent hand-waving ( http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/handwaving) , in my opinion, and the use of it here doesn't make sense to me.

 

Anyway, please tell me this: why would anyone dispense with performances in games that matter more than others (divisional games) against a quality defense by either cutting them out altogether or claiming that they're skewed results even though they're 1/6 of a small sample size?

Edited June 5, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Jauronimo]

Guys, I understand what the median and the mean are. I really do. I just think the term is invoked to here as a stand-in for actual analysis. It's the equivalent hand-waving ( http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/handwaving) , in my opinion, and the use of it here doesn't make sense to me.

 

Anyway, please tell me this: why would anyone dispense with performances in games that matter more than others (divisional games) against a quality defense by either cutting them out altogether or claiming that they're skewed results even though they're 1/6 of a small sample size?

You see the mean is the average of all the results, with equal weighting on each data point, while the median is the midpoint of the sample. You could have extremes at either end of the distribution and the midpoint will not change that much, certainly not as much as the mean, generally speaking. I'm not sure how else to explain it, man.

[dave mcbride]

You see the mean is the average of all the results, with equal weighting on each data point, while the median is the midpoint of the sample. You could have extremes at either end of the distribution and the midpoint will not change that much, certainly not as much as the mean, generally speaking. I'm not sure how else to explain it, man.

I very much understand what the terms mean. Truly, I do. What I don't understand is why the concept is being invoked here. It appears to me to be an exercise in hand-waving - when the poster was presented with a substantive counterargument, he invoked it as a substitute for analysis and indeed an "argument ender" (despite the fact that the response overall was substance free despite being chock full of stats geek mumbo jumbo). Anyway, the dude played in 12 games for the Bills - a small sample size. He put up excellent numbers in 1/6 of them against a divisional opponent that was 6th in yards allowed and 8th in yards per drive. Tell me why I should downplay it or discount it?

[Jauronimo]

I very much understand what the terms mean. Truly, I do. What I don't understand is why the concept is being invoked here. It appears to me to be an exercise in hand-waving - when the poster was presented with a substantive counterargument, he invoked it as a substitute for analysis and indeed an "argument ender" (despite the fact that the response overall was substance free despite being chock full of stats geek mumbo jumbo). Anyway, the dude played in 12 games for the Bills - a small sample size. He put up excellent numbers in 1/6 of them against a divisional opponent that was 6th in yards allowed and 8th in yards per drive. Tell me why I should downplay it or discount it?

The thing about the mean and median is that they're two different statistical tools and in order to analyze data, understanding the difference is critical. I'm really not sure how else to explain it to you.

 

Here are some links you may find helpful and hopefully will do a better job of explaining mean and median than I have:

 

https://www.udacity.com/course/intro-to-statistics--st101

http://writing.colostate.edu/guides/guide.cfm?guideid=67

http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/

Edited June 5, 2015 by Jauronimo

[LB3]

The thing about the mean and median is that they're two different statistical tools and in order to analyze data, understanding the difference is critical. I'm really not sure how else to explain it to you.

 

Here are some links you may find helpful and hopefully will do a better job of explaining mean and median than I have:

 

https://www.udacity.com/course/intro-to-statistics--st101

http://writing.colostate.edu/guides/guide.cfm?guideid=67

http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/

:lol:

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Guys, I understand what the median and the mean are. I really do. I just think the term is invoked to here as a stand-in for actual analysis. It's the equivalent hand-waving ( http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/handwaving) , in my opinion, and the use of it here doesn't make sense to me.

 

Anyway, please tell me this: why would anyone dispense with performances in games that matter more than others (divisional games) against a quality defense by either cutting them out altogether or claiming that they're skewed results even though they're 1/6 of a small sample size?

 

Ha, ha! Astute, Dave. Actually, somehow my computer dumped a long post with an analysis I did of Orton's actual statistics, at least 2 that I think matter in individual games (completion % and YPA).

Somehow it came through as a single sentence defining them and none of the actual analysis.

 

I don't feel like retyping it all. The bottom line is there is absolutely no justification whatsoever in completion percentage for tossing out either Jets game - the median and the mean differ by less than a percentage point and are not significantly impacted by deleting the Jets games.

 

One of the two Jets games has a clear outlier in YPA - a number 2x the mean. The mean and the median differ, and when that number is tossed out, the mean shifts while the median doesn't change. But there's nothing in the other Jets game to indicate an outlier. It's above the median, but 3 numbers are higher and one very close. And when we look "under the hood" at that game, we see Orton only made 17 pass attempts, one of which broke a short pass for 66 yds when the Jets lost contain on Watkins. So that single 66 yd pass play on a low number of attempts skewed the YPA number despite an entirely pedestrian completion percentage of 58% that game.

 

Rating in both Jets games is unusually high, but most people don't seem to put a lot of stock in rating as a predictive metric for winning or as a good measure of QB performance so meh.

 

Bottom line, I agree with you that in this case, the term "embrace the median" is invoked as a stand-in for actual analysis and amounts to hand-waving. In my opinion, and I am a scientist by profession and use statistics extensively, neither the use of it here nor excluding the two Jets games from analysis of Orton make any sense to me.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Hopeful

[dave mcbride]

 

Ha, ha! Astute, Dave. Actually, somehow my computer dumped a long post with an analysis I did of Orton's actual statistics, at least 2 that I think matter in individual games (completion % and YPA).

Somehow it came through as a single sentence defining them and none of the actual analysis.

 

I don't feel like retyping it all. The bottom line is there is absolutely no justification whatsoever in completion percentage for tossing out either Jets game - the median and the mean differ by less than a percentage point and are not significantly impacted by deleting the Jets games.

 

One of the two Jets games has a clear outlier in YPA - a number 2x the mean. The mean and the median differ, and when that number is tossed out, the mean shifts while the median doesn't change. But there's nothing in the other Jets game to indicate an outlier. It's above the median, but 3 numbers are higher and one very close. And when we look "under the hood" at that game, we see Orton only made 17 pass attempts, one of which broke a short pass for 66 yds when the Jets lost contain on Watkins. So that single 66 yd pass play on a low number of attempts skewed the YPA number despite an entirely pedestrian completion percentage of 58% that game.

 

Rating in both Jets games is unusually high, but most people don't seem to put a lot of stock in rating as a predictive metric for winning or as a good measure of QB performance so meh.

 

Bottom line, I agree with you that in this case, the term "embrace the median" is invoked as a stand-in for actual analysis and amounts to hand-waving. In my opinion, and I am a scientist by profession and use statistics extensively, neither the use of it here nor excluding the two Jets games from analysis of Orton make any sense to me.

Thanks!

[KDIGGZ]

i think TT is going to be a great practice and preseason QB so i can understand the early hype. when the plays break down he can improvise and he will be more exciting than the other options. but when teams start game planning for him and do what they have to in order to keep him in the pocket and force him to make the throws i think we will see he is not an accurate passer. we have too many offensive weapons. we just have to get the ball in their hands and let them make the plays. we don't need our QB to be running around trying to do too much

[dave mcbride]

The thing about the mean and median is that they're two different statistical tools and in order to analyze data, understanding the difference is critical. I'm really not sure how else to explain it to you.

 

Here are some links you may find helpful and hopefully will do a better job of explaining mean and median than I have:

 

https://www.udacity.com/course/intro-to-statistics--st101

http://writing.colostate.edu/guides/guide.cfm?guideid=67

http://www.pixyland.org/peterpan/

Um ... I do understand the difference, and I understand why it matters. I've understood it for decades. I just think that the concept of the median is being used here to deflect attention from a weak-to-bordering-on-non-analysis of Orton. No one but Hopeful is actually dealing with the facts at hand ...

Edited June 5, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Jauronimo]

Um ... I do understand the difference, and I understand why it matters. I've understood it for decades. I just think that the concept of the median is being used here to deflect attention from a weak-to-bordering-on-non-analysis of Orton. No one but Hopeful is actually dealing with the facts at hand ...

I don't know what else to tell you. Did you explore the links I provided? There is an important distinction between mean and median (we'll get to mode later) and I really can't explain it any better than I have.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean

 

You may not agree, but its a basic fact. If they were the same, why would there be two unique wikipedia entries? Can we at least agree on that?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

i think TT is going to be a great practice and preseason QB so i can understand the early hype. when the plays break down he can improvise and he will be more exciting than the other options. but when teams start game planning for him and do what they have to in order to keep him in the pocket and force him to make the throws i think we will see he is not an accurate passer. we have too many offensive weapons. we just have to get the ball in their hands and let them make the plays. we don't need our QB to be running around trying to do too much

 

We'll see. I do hope Roman and Rex are not intending to get all cutsy swapping QB in and out with him wildcat-style.

 

His track record in college was that his completion percentage and passing yardage went up each year.

His one game, EJ's 14 games, and Matt Cassel lifetime are all within spitting distance of each other for completion percentage. (58.6, 58.6 ,59).

Right now I would have to say that's the "?" for both EJ and TT, can they stand in the pocket and make the throws accurately?

[John from Riverside]

 

We'll see. I do hope Roman and Rex are not intending to get all cutsy swapping QB in and out with him wildcat-style.

 

His track record in college was that his completion percentage and passing yardage went up each year.

His one game, EJ's 14 games, and Matt Cassel lifetime are all within spitting distance of each other for completion percentage. (58.6, 58.6 ,59).

Right now I would have to say that's the "?" for both EJ and TT, can they stand in the pocket and make the throws accurately?

What I want to know is if Taylor trusts what he throws and actually releases the ball.......this is what seems to be the only (but major) hangup for EJ so far.

 

It is said that TT throws a really nice long ball......but does how does he do on short to intermediate stuff? Does his lack of height limit him?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

What I want to know is if Taylor trusts what he throws and actually releases the ball.......this is what seems to be the only (but major) hangup for EJ so far.

 

It is said that TT throws a really nice long ball......but does how does he do on short to intermediate stuff? Does his lack of height limit him?

 

Throws I've seen from TT are rainbows. Pretty to watch but not good for the Ralph in December.

[Gugny]

What I want to know is if Taylor trusts what he throws and actually releases the ball.......this is what seems to be the only (but major) hangup for EJ so far.

 

It is said that TT throws a really nice long ball......but does how does he do on short to intermediate stuff? Does his lack of height limit him?

 

I don't know why you need to come here and bash EJ every chance you get. We get it. You don't like him. But enough is enough.

[Kirby Jackson]

i think TT is going to be a great practice and preseason QB so i can understand the early hype. when the plays break down he can improvise and he will be more exciting than the other options. but when teams start game planning for him and do what they have to in order to keep him in the pocket and force him to make the throws i think we will see he is not an accurate passer. we have too many offensive weapons. we just have to get the ball in their hands and let them make the plays. we don't need our QB to be running around trying to do too much

So you are a Cassel guy? You can always tell where someone stands based on their interpretation of what's needed. Accuracy, play in the pocket, good decision making are the same qualities that I am looking for. For me at the moment Cassel is the safest for those reasons too. If someone else develops and can do similar things AND make more plays I am all for it.

 

We'll see. I do hope Roman and Rex are not intending to get all cutsy swapping QB in and out with him wildcat-style.

 

His track record in college was that his completion percentage and passing yardage went up each year.

His one game, EJ's 14 games, and Matt Cassel lifetime are all within spitting distance of each other for completion percentage. (58.6, 58.6 ,59).

Right now I would have to say that's the "?" for both EJ and TT, can they stand in the pocket and make the throws accurately?

Nice post and it makes sense. That is the 8,000,000,000 question.

[dave mcbride]

I don't know what else to tell you. Did you explore the links I provided? There is an important distinction between mean and median (we'll get to mode later) and I really can't explain it any better than I have.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean

 

You may not agree, but its a basic fact. If they were the same, why would there be two unique wikipedia entries? Can we at least agree on that?

I think we're talking past each other. I know what the terms mean and what they imply but I honestly don't care. My issue is with discounting the games to make a (cherry-picked) point about Orton's below average-ness despite the fact the opponent in said games was good competition. It's one of those "he doesn't have that much power once you subtract all the home runs hit on Tuesdays and Thursdays" sorts of arguments. I have no time for those. To reiterate, I really don't care about the terminological issue that you seem to be concerned about. I regard it as a MacGuffin in this whole debate. With regard to Orton, I honestly don't know where you stand. I do know where you stand on the importance of the differences between medians and means, but that's irrelevant to me. What point are you yourself trying to make about Orton's performance, if any?

Edited June 5, 2015 by dave mcbride

[KDIGGZ]

So you are a Cassel guy? You can always tell where someone stands based on their interpretation of what's needed. Accuracy, play in the pocket, good decision making are the same qualities that I am looking for. For me at the moment Cassel is the safest for those reasons too. If someone else develops and can do similar things AND make more plays I am all for it.

Nice post and it makes sense. That is the 8,000,000,000 question.

I just feel like we have so many weapons on this team, why go with a QB that tries to do too much? 3-steps and throw and get it in the hands of the real playmakers. Be safe with the ball, be accurate, make good decisions. From what little I have seen from the guys so far, I think this will be Cassel. He gets the ball out on time and makes the right decisions. If we can get 3-4 yards on 1st and 2nd down and don't ask him to do too much by puting ourselves in 3rd and long situations then I think he can be successful.

[billykaykay]

Like Tyrod Taylor, seems like a very good #2 option. So does Cassel. Simms seems like a good camp arm.

 

The NFL is a business and it would be shocking if the Bills cut a former 1st round pick. EJ has a great attitude by all accounts, is a team guy, has shown the ability to learn and adapt while also having the size, arm strength and mobility ideal for the position. All of that coupled with the fact they would have to pay him a lot of money to hit the street just seems like a drastic move that wouldn't fit.

 

I'm not sure what EJ did or didn't do for some of the people that are so strongly against him but he is the front runner whether people like it or not and he isn't going anywhere in all likelihood. I hope he succeeds and gives the Bills a QB of the future.

Is Simms Practice Squad eligible ?

[Jauronimo]

I think we're talking past each other. I know what the terms mean and what they imply but I honestly don't care. My issue is with discounting the games to make a (cherry-picked) point about Orton's below average-ness despite the fact the opponent in said games was good competition. It's one of those "he doesn't have that much power once you subtract all the home runs hit on Tuesdays and Thursdays" sorts of arguments. I have no time for those. To reiterate, I really don't care about the terminological issue that you seem to be concerned about. I regard it as a MacGuffin in this whole debate. With regard to Orton, I honestly don't know where you stand. I do know where you stand on the importance of the differences between medians and means, but that's irrelevant to me. What point are you yourself trying to make about Orton's performance, if any?

I don't know how you can say that when MacGuffin himself, the godfather of modern statistics, declares unequivocally that median and mean are not the same. Understanding the difference between mean, median, mode, and range is paramount to deeper statistical analysis. I know that you're reluctant to accept my explanation of the differences, subtle as they are, but you should find the links I provided to be both credible and accessible for novices and experts alike. Its not my intention to be rude or difficult, but I cannot in good conscience just agree to disagree on this matter. I don't know what else to say.

[Kirby Jackson]

I just feel like we have so many weapons on this team, why go with a QB that tries to do too much? 3-steps and throw and get it in the hands of the real playmakers. Be safe with the ball, be accurate, make good decisions. From what little I have seen from the guys so far, I think this will be Cassel. He gets the ball out on time and makes the right decisions. If we can get 3-4 yards on 1st and 2nd down and don't ask him to do too much by puting ourselves in 3rd and long situations then I think he can be successful.

Nice thoughts and very similar to where I stand. I think that roster makeup has a lot to do with it as well. If the Bills didn't have a lot of playmakers than they would certainly need more plays to come from the QBs. I would think that both EJ & TT are capable of making more plays. This roster though needs the best game manager (mean that term in a good way). I don't care who it is as long as it is the guy that is the best at what you mentioned above.

[San-O]

He's thrown very few NFL passes, so it's hard to tell from live game stats. He might be great!!!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14163/tyrod-taylor

[dave mcbride]

I don't know how you can say that when MacGuffin himself, the godfather of modern statistics, declares unequivocally that median and mean are not the same. Understanding the difference between mean, median, mode, and range is paramount to deeper statistical analysis. I know that you're reluctant to accept my explanation of the differences, subtle as they are, but you should find the links I provided to be both credible and accessible for novices and experts alike. Its not my intention to be rude or difficult, but I cannot in good conscience just agree to disagree on this matter. I don't know what else to say.

I now think you're just trying to yank my chain. Is this some sort of elaborate inside joke about Holcomb's/Edward's/Orton's Arm and regression to the mean?

 

Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with you; I just don't care. There's a big difference between not caring and agreeing to disagree -- sorta like the difference between the median and the mean.

Edited June 5, 2015 by dave mcbride

[KDIGGZ]

Nice thoughts and very similar to where I stand. I think that roster makeup has a lot to do with it as well. If the Bills didn't have a lot of playmakers than they would certainly need more plays to come from the QBs. I would think that both EJ & TT are capable of making more plays. This roster though needs the best game manager (mean that term in a good way). I don't care who it is as long as it is the guy that is the best at what you mentioned above.

glad we are on the same page. hopefully the team feels the same way

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I just feel like we have so many weapons on this team, why go with a QB that tries to do too much? 3-steps and throw and get it in the hands of the real playmakers. Be safe with the ball, be accurate, make good decisions. From what little I have seen from the guys so far, I think this will be Cassel. He gets the ball out on time and makes the right decisions. If we can get 3-4 yards on 1st and 2nd down and don't ask him to do too much by puting ourselves in 3rd and long situations then I think he can be successful.

 

Well, the counterpoint to that is that we kind of have a 10 year track record on Cassel. He may think his best football is ahead of him, typically by the time a guy is in his 30s and has been in the league 10 years he is what he is ... I can't think of an exception besides Gannon.

 

So I think Cassel is the fall back "safety net" guy, but if either EJ or Tyrod seem to have similar skills right now, we'll ride with whoever looks best because the young guys just might have a higher ceiling.