eball Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 It's called adult discussion. As Derek points out, reasonable people can debate the finer points. It makes it more interesting. Other posters simply call others "pats fans"....as though that is some sort of contribution to the discussion. If it bothers you, don't participate. If you would like to label the petty squabbles in which you engage with others over the Pats** "adult" be my guest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I guess it's about what you expect. There are going to be people that only lean to one side, and a similar number that only lean to the other side, and the masses to various degrees of both. Personally, I have been as big a basher of the Pats** and Brady* cheating without question from day one as anyone. Got in several arguments about it. But I also said and believe that I don't think it helped, I think Brady* is one of the top 5 QBs ever with or without cheating. I think Belichick** is the single best coach of all time with or without cheating, probably better than Vince Lombardi. I don't even think Spygate helped them that much if at all. I don't think the fumble thing shows much of anything. So I have also repeatedly and vociferously stuck up for the Patriots too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 I guess it's about what you expect. There are going to be people that only lean to one side, and a similar number that only lean to the other side, and the masses to various degrees of both. Personally, I have been as big a basher of the Pats** and Brady* cheating without question from day one as anyone. Got in several arguments about it. But I also said and believe that I don't think it helped, I think Brady* is one of the top 5 QBs ever with or without cheating. I think Belichick** is the single best coach of all time with or without cheating, probably better than Vince Lombardi. I don't even think Spygate helped them that much if at all. I don't think the fumble thing shows much of anything. So I have also repeatedly and vociferously stuck up for the Patriots too. I think you know this thread isn't referring to you. One can legitimately give credit to Brady*, Belicheck*, and the Pats** (I certainly have) without signing up to be their online advocate on a Bills message board. I think that's my only point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I know people are fond of saying "the cover up is worse than the crime." That's never made much sense to me. The crime is the issue. Regardless of how much it helped, and they wouldn't do it unless they thought it helped, the actual crime was, under Brady's* command, in a Championship game, a guy stole all of the game balls from under the Referee's watch after they had been inspected and within the rules, took them to a bathroom and doctored their balls but not the other team's, which he also had possession of. I think you know this thread isn't referring to you. One can legitimately give credit to Brady*, Belicheck*, and the Pats** (I certainly have) without signing up to be their online advocate on a Bills message board. I think that's my only point. Totally understand. I don't understand why they do it either. But I also think that most of the fervent Pats** defenders on here, if not the vast majority are actually Bills fans who are simply unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I guess it's about what you expect. There are going to be people that only lean to one side, and a similar number that only lean to the other side, and the masses to various degrees of both. Personally, I have been as big a basher of the Pats** and Brady* cheating without question from day one as anyone. Got in several arguments about it. But I also said and believe that I don't think it helped, I think Brady* is one of the top 5 QBs ever with or without cheating. I think Belichick** is the single best coach of all time with or without cheating, probably better than Vince Lombardi. I don't even think Spygate helped them that much if at all. I don't think the fumble thing shows much of anything. So I have also repeatedly and vociferously stuck up for the Patriots too. I disagree with just about everything you said in that last paragraph but I don’t want to hijack the thread so I’m not going to say anything more than why would they cheat if it didn’t help them? Being caught twice will stick with and tarnish them forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I disagree with just about everything you said in that last paragraph but I don’t want to hijack the thread so I’m not going to say anything more than why would they cheat if it didn’t help them? Being caught twice will stick with and tarnish them forever. I agree. And with how bold and belligerent they are with their denials and entitlement, I cant help but feel very convinced there is a lot more crap going on there than we know about. Just watching this team doesn't feel right. The way they let players go and suffer one key injury after another. Plug in miscellaneous running backs who pile up sick numbers... the way they always seem to guess correctly at the line of scrimmage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I know people are fond of saying "the cover up is worse than the crime." That's never made much sense to me. The crime is the issue. The cover up is actually worse. Don't lie or thumb your nose to the judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Rivalry's typically are built on fans contempt of another team. usually a divisional rival. Anyone around long enought before the internet tubes where invented would have had a field day with the once hated fish.Now it's the pats*, and lately Brady**. Probably, because they have owned us this century. Which is healthy in a normal rivalry. But the cheating and Brady's** cocky smug attitude is what separates him from say Montana who BTW won four straight. And was never a douche during his run. Nor caught cheating or ever even suspected. Personally I Despise Jerry Jones and the cow girls as much as the Patriots*. he is Like Kraft a braggart douchebag. No need to bring up their charity's it is chump change for those guys. Probably no harm in defending The pats*or their QB if they were on the up and up. it appears they are not. Again! EFF em. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) I disagree with just about everything you said in that last paragraph but I dont want to hijack the thread so Im not going to say anything more than why would they cheat if it didnt help them? Being caught twice will stick with and tarnish them forever. [/size]I said I don't think it helped winning more games than they would have won without doing it, because they are just as good when they don't cheat IMO. I don't think they do this on the road because they can't do it the way they were caught on the road. The guy that does the cheating isn't there. They don't have access to the balls like they do at home. But Brady* throws as many or more TDs on the road as at home. We shouldn't hijack the thread, you're right. The answer to your question though is IMO Belichick** and Brady* are ultimate competitors. They look for every single tiny advantage over the opposition, and there are dozens of tiny things they do to win. They are not against breaking the rules to get that advantage and are so arrogant they think the rules don't apply to them. They also get blatant favoritism. But each little thing they do like letting out a little air probably doesn't help them all that much by itself. It's like 1/20th of all of the little advantages they try to take over their opponents. And they would succeed without the ones that break the rules because they are also great at what they do. Edited May 12, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I don't get the fervent support for the Patriots and Brady either. At the end of the day, they were caught cheating AFTER winning 3 Superbowls in the past. Evidence wasn't shared with anyone and was simply destroyed. That made no sense. Now you got more cheating and lying about it going into last years Superbowl win. Fans can say that it didn't give them a competitive advantage. Fans can say that it doesn't affect the outcome of the game. All of that IMO is irrelevant and simply conjecture. The Patriots knowingly cheated with the intent of gaining a competitive advantage, whether one actually existed or not. Tom Brady in all likelihood LIED about his knowledge of it. The only defense for the Patriots is that the report is factually incorrect, and that the Patriots didn't take their game balls and deflate them, while leaving their opponents alone. The only defense for Brady is that he not once, not ever told McNally that the balls he was using were over inflated or that he wanted them to be softer. Of course, both of these defenses are utterly ridiculous. This team has broken or bent the rules over and over again with the explicit intent of gaining an edge. Any attempted defense or excuse just makes someone appear to be a homer with rose colored glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Therein lies the problem. Offering comparisons that don't at all compare shows you're not looking at DeflateGate for what it actually is. It isn't about the air pressure in the balls. It isn't even really about competitive advantage. It is about a team (maybe just one player and a couple staffers) that knowingly broke a rule, lied about it and even attempted to stop it from being uncovered. Tom Brady stood up in front of everyone and laughed at you, me, the press, Pats** fans, everyone. He thought he'd get away with it. It didn't even matter to him whether he needed to do it or not. He did it. He lied. He deserves and has received league discipline. Very good point. That's what they mentioned a lot on nfl network last night. The crime, maybe not so much. Failure to cooperate was the term used most. Ps. I hate the patriots. If that makes me annoying, so be it. To me, the level of advantage gained is key too, however I don't think the verdict is clear. You have some analytical work out there showing the pats are statistical outliers in fumbling. Brady has been pretty good in bad weather. The pat defenders claim is pretty simple, a flat ball didn't make them Super Bowl champs, and between PEDs, pushing boundaries of illegal contact yada, yada -they all cheat. Also there are posts of Ray Lewis (murderer) ray rice (wife beater) etc... Trying to minimize deflation (all thought the one I saw left out Hernandez, interestingly) As I have said before we'll find out just how much inflation matters. The pats fumbling and Brady's qbr in lousy weather going forward will help us know just how much of an edge they were gaining. He didnt look good when he fumbled against the Raiders. No wait. When we was tucking the football into his body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Some people are bullies and like to pile on those who wallow in self-pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 anyone defending Brady or the Pats after tampering for Bellicheat, Spy-gate, and deflate-gate has serious mental issues and this doesn't even take into consideration the high probability that they have done more shady stuff to win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I think you know this thread isn't referring to you. One can legitimately give credit to Brady*, Belicheck*, and the Pats** (I certainly have) without signing up to be their online advocate on a Bills message board. I think that's my only point. You're referring to me!!! I hate them so much it gives them credit somehow. Dammit now I have to balance my "sports hate" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 You could start a thread saying "water is wet" and the same posters would probably argue the other side of it. It's just a game to them to get a reaction. Best to just ignore and hope they go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Im with you Eball. At times it feels like this is a Pats* and Bra*dy Forum instead of a Buffalo Bills (No asterisk) Forum. Anyway for now Go Bills Go Clippers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 If you would like to label the petty squabbles in which you engage with others over the Pats** "adult" be my guest. Or even call them "discussions." They're not - he's just making excuses ("Everyone does it, it doesn't give them an advantage, so it's not really cheating.") Going back and forth about "knowingly and intentionally violating rules and conspiring to hide the violation isn't cheating" isn't a discussion. It's ex post facto justification, and fundamentally dishonest (or merely delusional, if you want to be generous.) You could start a thread saying "water is wet" Not always. Only within a certain range of temperature and pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBaumer Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 You want to cheat, go right ahead. Just don't biitch about about it when you get caught. You cheated, pay the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 if the rolls were reversed and it was our Bills who had won all those super bowls pushing the envelope bending and breaking rules, the comments on this board would be quite different. the question i always wonder more is how a silly asterisk * makes anyone feel better ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 holy **** there are 6 pats threads on top of TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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