Clippers of Nfl Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 if the rolls were reversed and it was our Bills who had won all those super bowls pushing the envelope bending and breaking rules, the comments on this board would be quite different. the question i always wonder more is how a silly asterisk * makes anyone feel better ? It's not about making anyone feel better... It's not an antidepressant man. It's a sports forum custom at this point. It was mentioned on nfl network. I believe Heath Evans, BIG TIME DEFENDER of Brady, mentioned the asterisk thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 if the rolls were reversed and it was our Bills who had won all those super bowls pushing the envelope bending and breaking rules, the comments on this board would be quite different. the question i always wonder more is how a silly asterisk * makes anyone feel better ? Read The Scarlet Letter by Nathanial Hawthorne, which, remarkably is set in a Puritan Boston town and involves beautiful adulterers and holier than thou machinations as well as pretty much everyone being guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Read The Scarlet Letter by Nathanial Hawthorne, which, remarkably is set in a Puritan Boston town and involves beautiful adulterers and holier than thou machinations as well as pretty much everyone being guilty. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) I like that this happens. It shows the many on the board can think objectively, even when it involves a team we hate. It makes for better conversation I think the OP's point is that it is fact not objective and goes overboard the other way. Just because it's not pro-Bills doesn't make it objective. Edited May 12, 2015 by ko12010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 If you would like to label the petty squabbles in which you engage with others over the Pats** "adult" be my guest. Petty is labeling someone a pats fan because they will discuss the opposing view. Whenever I can, I try to incorporate data or links or quotes to make a point. There are plenty of non pats fans discussing the real impact of balls 2 psi lower than the arbitrary level picked by the NFL. In fact some coach on the Bills staff says that Rex thinks deflated balls were no the key to Brady's success. So count Rex as a pats fan too, I guess... Your only contribution is "these are pats fans/defenders". This thread sums it up perfectly, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm a huge Bills fan, and not remotely interested in any other sports team. period. The situation that Tom Brady is in right now, could EASILY happen to one of our own players/coaches. It something that has been blown all out of proportion. Bitter fans attacking a successful person, and a media driven frenzy...ugly to watch, and provides a platform for the most extreme, and most vehement nut-jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm a huge Bills fan, and not remotely interested in any other sports team. period. . 2,068 of your posts on this site prove otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm a huge Bills fan, and not remotely interested in any other sports team. period. The situation that Tom Brady is in right now, could EASILY happen to one of our own players/coaches. It something that has been blown all out of proportion.I don't see how you can say that. If you want to say it's easy to imagine that a Bills player or coach would want to use a football that was 1-2 lbs under the required weight of the leagues rules than it is possible. If you want to say it's just as likely that a Bills player or coach would have the balls stolen from the referee just before a championship game and intentionally doctored in a locked bathroom to gain an advantage then no, that couldn't happen easily. That's never happened in the league history that we know of. That is an unusual, defiant enormous scrock in the face of the rules and not close to everyday gamesmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 2,068 of your posts on this site prove otherwise. In his defense, that he knows something about football in general and the Patriots in particular is pretty solid evidence that he's not a Pats fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 In his defense, that he knows something about football in general and the Patriots in particular is pretty solid evidence that he's not a Pats fan. Where has he proven he knows football? I'm not denying it's entirely possible, I've just only seen him defend the Patriots, not discuss actual football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) I said I don't think it helped winning more games than they would have won without doing it, because they are just as good when they don't cheat IMO. I don't think they do this on the road because they can't do it the way they were caught on the road. The guy that does the cheating isn't there. They don't have access to the balls like they do at home. But Brady* throws as many or more TDs on the road as at home. We shouldn't hijack the thread, you're right. The answer to your question though is IMO Belichick** and Brady* are ultimate competitors. They look for every single tiny advantage over the opposition, and there are dozens of tiny things they do to win. They are not against breaking the rules to get that advantage and are so arrogant they think the rules don't apply to them. They also get blatant favoritism. But each little thing they do like letting out a little air probably doesn't help them all that much by itself. It's like 1/20th of all of the little advantages they try to take over their opponents. And they would succeed without the ones that break the rules because they are also great at what they do. Regarding the 1st bolded point, I think this is the main point of contention between the 2 sides of this whole discussion. Some (the ones now being labeled ***Patriot*** lovers) defend the stance of it was a minor infraction and they really gained no advantage so not that big of a deal. I completely disagree because #1, breaking the rules to gain an advantage, no matter how small an advantage is still cheating & #2, while I do agree that it didn’t alter the outcome of the Colts game, you can’t convince me that was the 1st time they had ever messed with the pressure in a game ball and it likely did help alter the outcome of a previous game at some point in time. If it didn’t help them, they wouldn’t risk doing it. Regarding the 2nd bold point, this is why I don’t think either of them deserves to be considered the greatest of all time. Lombardi, Knoll, Montana, Bradshaw never got caught or were accused of cheating. Billy & Tommy have been caught twice now. I believe that will be a stain on both of their reputations forever. Edited May 12, 2015 by 3 --> 10 Connection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I don't see how you can say that. If you want to say it's easy to imagine that a Bills player or coach would want to use a football that was 1-2 lbs under the required weight of the leagues rules than it is possible. If you want to say it's just as likely that a Bills player or coach would have the balls stolen from the referee just before a championship game and intentionally doctored in a locked bathroom to gain an advantage then no, that couldn't happen easily. That's never happened in the league history that we know of. That is an unusual, defiant enormous scrock in the face of the rules and not close to everyday gamesmanship. An NFL football only weighs 14-15 oz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The pat defenders claim is pretty simple, a flat ball didn't make them Super Bowl champs, and between PEDs, pushing boundaries of illegal contact yada, yada -they all cheat. Also there are posts of Ray Lewis (murderer) ray rice (wife beater) etc... Trying to minimize deflation (all thought the one I saw left out Hernandez, interestingly) The big difference and the reason this case shouldn't be minimized is that Brady cheated on the field. No, deflating a football doesn't compare to murder but there is special consideration for guys who !@#$ with things between the lines. It's why the Saints were punished so harshly and why Pete Rose is still suspended from baseball. I think the punishment is fair. the question i always wonder more is how a silly asterisk * makes anyone feel better ? Knowing it bothers Pats* fans is the appeal to me, it's like an "18-1" shirt. I can't wait to see my brother in law (big Pats* fan) in two months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 An NFL football only weighs 14-15 oz... All 31 other teams and non-Patriots* balls do, you're right. Who knows how much theirs weigh after they get done stealing and doctoring them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The big difference and the reason this case shouldn't be minimized is that Brady cheated on the field. No, deflating a football doesn't compare to murder but there is special consideration for guys who !@#$ with things between the lines. It's why the Saints were punished so harshly and why Pete Rose is still suspended from baseball. I think the punishment is fair. Knowing it bothers Pats* fans is the appeal to me, it's like an "18-1" shirt. I can't wait to see my brother in law (big Pats* fan) in two months. The Saints weren't punished for cheating on the field. Neither was Rose. All 31 other teams and non-Patriots* balls do, you're right. Who knows how much theirs weigh after they get done stealing and doctoring them. Well...if they are 1-2 pounds underweight, they literally are lighter than air... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The Saints weren't punished for cheating on the field. Neither was Rose. Well...if they are 1-2 pounds underweight, they literally are lighter than air... That's exactly how they act, as if their feet don't touch the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 2,068 of your posts on this site prove otherwise. Actually, I linked to a post from early last season attacking the Pats. I can't stand them, and I can't stand that the Bills have lost to them all these years. I don't believe the Bills have sucked because of what the Patriots have done. I think they would have sucked in any division. Where has he proven he knows football? I'm not denying it's entirely possible, I've just only seen him defend the Patriots, not discuss actual football. You have blinders on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Your only contribution is "these are pats fans/defenders". This thread sums it up perfectly, actually. I called no one a fan. I used the words "support" and "defend" as those terms would apply to arguing in favor of or against a particular topic -- in this case, Brady* and the Pats**. You've yet to explain your rationale for engaging in continuous, largely irrelevant debates with Bills fans -- on a Bills message board -- in which you passionately provide arguments in defense of a hated rival who has now been found "responsible" for cheating at least twice. It's not "intellectual" conversation or an "adult" exchange -- it's petty and seemingly intended only to inflame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The Saints weren't punished for cheating on the field. Neither was Rose. Well...if they are 1-2 pounds underweight, they literally are lighter than air... Here you go with the semantics again. NO and Rose were both punished for things they did within the context of games, which is clearly distinct from the nature of crimes that Rice, Peterson and Lewis allegedly committed. That was obviously the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Let me begin by stating I am not in favor of a unanimously rose-colored, pie-in-the-sky forum in which everyone says only how great the Bills are and how horrible everything else is. There's a ton of great football talk around here in which I enjoy participating that includes critical analysis of the team and the organization. I "get" folks offering a perspective on the other side of the Pats** investigation. I understand some not wanting to simply label the team and its players "cheaters" because they believe any edge gained is/was negligible. What I don't understand, however, is the fervent, frothing desire of some to incessantly debate and pick squabbles in defense of Brady* and the Pats**. Somebody please explain. Well considering it's a message board to discuss topics, it's reasonable to expect people to have opinions on all facets of a topic. Here is the real problem...the moment someone says a single word on the "less popular" side of the discussion, in this case what you would call defending some part of the Pats side, all kinds of people incapable of participating in a rational discussion start bashing, attacking, name calling, etc and frequently failing to even contribute anything to the thread and just insisting the other poster is a "Pats Fan" and all their posts are about only that. That then triggers responses by the poster who presented the Pats side and forces them to defend themselves and makes their point now look like some exaggerated stance in defense of the Pats when really it's just a provoked response to irrational comments in most cases. As far as this topic goes...here is the bottom line. Bill Polian said it best. After spygate, the NFL put rules, guidelines and processes in place to protect the integrity of the game at all costs. The requirement were triggered for discipline in the findings, and most importantly, any investigation requires without debate 100% cooperation by the organization. In the end, decisions from the Pats side, especially Brady in not giving up his phone, and lying impeded the investigation and severe punishment is being administered. Personally, the air pressure in the football is being so overly exaggerated. The actual incident is minor, and at best a fine was in order, but definitely not a suspension. However, directly refusing to cooperate in an investigation to protect the integrity of the game stemming from a playoff game, and lying on top of that, is a very different story and more severe action was needed. I think the penalty was too steep, Brady should have had no more than 2 games IMO and I don't think the Pats should have lost a 1st and a 4th round pick. More appropriate would be 2 games for Tom and $1,000,000 fine to organization. And if you want to apply a loss of picks, then one fourth round pick would be more appropriate. If they had just said that Tom likes them with less air and the ball boy went too far, I think all of this goes away and only a fine would have happened. But they broke very serious protocol that was developed because of the Patriots and Spygate in the first place, so I understand the severity even if I think it's a bit much. I expect the appeal to win some sort of reduction but I still think Tom serves at least 2 games. Personally I would rather beat the Pats with Tom in week 2, but I am taking lots of personal enjoyment harassing a few friends who are Pats fans about all this hahahaha. F the Pats and Go Bills!!!! This is our year regardless IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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